Sean Marshall traded: T Wood +prospects Sappelt &Torreys p21

[dew1679666265]

I don't know. Signing Prince then trading Garza this offseason and then buying two top shelf pitchers next offseason could make this team very competitive in 2013. I'm not sure you could convince Fielder to sign, but if you could, that would allow the Cubs to use the return from Garza to fill other needs.

 

It doesn't seem too likely a scenario based upon what we've seen to date, but I do think that it could work.

 

You'd have to get some significant major league talent for Garza, I think. After this season, Dempster and Z are both off the books - which frees up money, but also takes away two fairly quality arms from the rotation. We'd be looking at a rotation of Wood/Shark/Cashner and whichever two FA pitchers we signed, if that many end up being available and if the bidding doesn't go so high that it doesn't make sense to sign two. We'd be looking at a pretty good rotation, but still wouldn't have much offensively outside of Prince. We might be able to get into the low 80s in wins, but that's probably our ceiling for next year.

 

And all that said, I'd rather have given Pujols 10/275 this year than give a FA starting pitcher a 6-8 year, massive money deal - even one on the right side of 30. Pitchers are massive injury risks, especially those who have thrown a bunch of innings like the guys who may be available have.

[Bruno7481]

Comments on Torreyes form this past summer at BP

 

This 18-year-old Venezuelan has the necessary tools and stature to develop into the next Jose Altuve. OK, he’s not quite that small, but the tools are similar: He has a promising hit tool, surprising pop for his size (you’ll read this line again), and some flash with the leather. It’s early in the developmental journey, but Torreyes is already turning heads and looks like another legit prospect in the Reds’ system.

[dew1679666265]

It just occurred to me that the only person reporting this is Keith Law.

 

If he's just trolling us and it goes back to Coddington or whatever, I'm declaring Jihad on him.

 

Levine is reporting it, but is citing Law as he does it.

 

The Chicago Cubs will get minor leaguers Dave Sappelt and Ronald Torreyes in the deal that sends Sean Marshall to the Reds for Travis Wood, a team source told ESPN.com’s Keith Law.

[A New Era]

I was already on board for a rebuild. Thank God Dusty and Hendry are on another team and we are the one taking advantage of them this time. (Only Hendry = Jocketty)

 

It feels really, really good to be the "other team" here.

[toonsterwu]

Not bad. Not great, but not bad. It wasn't a great system to get talent from, and only in my dreams were we going to get one of their few remaining top talents. I was hoping for Gregorius more than Torreyes, but Torreyes has some intrigue. Curious where he slots in - I was thinking DeVoss/Silva would battle it out for 2nd base time in Daytona (with the other one in the OF), with LePage as well. He does have a solid hit tool, and our MI depth was thinned out in recent years.

 

Sappelt is more in that Sam Fuld mode. Nothing too exciting, but he obviously could hold value as a depth OF. Furthermore, if they decide to trade Byrd and Brett Jackson isn't ready, Sappelt could perhaps fight for some CF playing time.

 

I can't really see either one of these guys fitting into my Cubs Top 15 Prospects, but top 25 ... perhaps.

[treebird]

THIS BETTER BE TRUE

 

pretty psyched if it is. all the more if it could somehow come out that all the reed johnson stuff was a joke.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Assuming this really is the official Twitter of the Reds, we have formal confirmation:

 

https://twitter.com/#!/Reds

 

#Reds acquire LHP Sean Marshall from Cubs for LHP Travis Wood, OF Dave Sappelt and minor league IF Ronald Torreyes.

[pccubfan]

I don't know. Signing Prince then trading Garza this offseason and then buying two top shelf pitchers next offseason could make this team very competitive in 2013. I'm not sure you could convince Fielder to sign, but if you could, that would allow the Cubs to use the return from Garza to fill other needs.

 

It doesn't seem too likely a scenario based upon what we've seen to date, but I do think that it could work.

 

You'd have to get some significant major league talent for Garza, I think. After this season, Dempster and Z are both off the books - which frees up money, but also takes away two fairly quality arms from the rotation. We'd be looking at a rotation of Wood/Shark/Cashner and whichever two FA pitchers we signed, if that many end up being available and if the bidding doesn't go so high that it doesn't make sense to sign two. We'd be looking at a pretty good rotation, but still wouldn't have much offensively outside of Prince. We might be able to get into the low 80s in wins, but that's probably our ceiling for next year.

 

And all that said, I'd rather have given Pujols 10/275 this year than give a FA starting pitcher a 6-8 year, massive money deal - even one on the right side of 30. Pitchers are massive injury risks, especially those who have thrown a bunch of innings like the guys who may be available have.

 

I'd rather the Cubs had signed Pujols too but that train has left the station. It doesn't appear to me that the Cubs are going to be willing to take a leap of faith in the FA market currently. That will definitely slow down the process.

 

A Cain, Hamels, Wood, Cashner/Shark, and pitcher (Garza return)/McNutt would make a competitive rotation. Add Fielder to Castro, DeJesus, Soto, Bjax, Barney and a corner outfielder (Garza return) and the offense could be improved enough to be very competitive.

[toonsterwu]

So

 

One year of a really great relief pitcher

 

for

 

A 25-year-old starting pitcher with one year of service time, a career 92 FIP- and no health concerns

 

A 24-year-old outfielder who is right on the borderline between being a starter and a good fourth outfielder

 

An 18-year-old prospects who projects to stay at 2b with plus defense who just hit .356 .398 .457 in the Midwest League.

 

 

If this is what rebuilding looks like, sign me up.

 

On Torreyes - Some folks had mixed reports about his glove.

[WilcoFan]

MLB Official confirms:

 

MLB @MLB

·More

OFFICIAL: @Cubs acquire LHP Travis Wood, OF Dave Sappelt and Minor League INF Ronald Torreyes from @Reds for LHP Sean Marshall.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Sappelt is more in that Sam Fuld mode. Nothing too exciting, but he obviously could hold value as a depth OF. Furthermore, if they decide to trade Byrd and Brett Jackson isn't ready, Sappelt could perhaps fight for some CF playing time.

 

Not trying to rag on you because you take a different but valid approach, but I don't see the Fuld comp.

 

Fuld was a .285 .372 .405 .777 hitter in the minors, and was pretty much that exact hitter every step of the way.

 

Sappelt has been a .309 .362 .459 .821 hitter in the minors, and those are actually dragged down a bit by his low minors struggles. He's been an .875 or so OPS hitter in AA and AAA.

 

Fuld was a guy whose ceiling was an okay reserve outfielder. Sappelt looks to me like that's his floor with an upside of an adequate/mediocre starter.

[Sammy Sofa]

I was already on board for a rebuild. Thank God Dusty and Hendry are on another team and we are the one taking advantage of them this time. (Only Hendry = Jocketty)

 

It feels really, really good to be the "other team" here.

 

Wait, what? The Cubs weren't typically "taken advantage" of under Hendry; their main problems stemmed from the choices they made when it came to signings and FA.

[toonsterwu]

so did the reds' farm system officially go from 'pretty good' to 'kind of bad' after the latos and marshall trades?

 

Perrsonally, I thought it was over-hyped pre-Latos deal. Post-Latos deal, I thought it was in the lower third. I think it's easily below us right now, and probably one of the 5-7 worst systems right now. A lot of losses. Mesoraco props up their prospect list for this year.

[Guest]

On Torreyes - Some folks had mixed reports about his glove.

 

In what way? He doesn't even have the error totals you normally see from young international infielders.

[toonsterwu]

Wait, Sappelt played *CF* in the minors??? I assumed he was a corner outfielder.

 

This just keeps getting better.

 

How likely is he to stick there?

 

I don't know if I'd care to have Sappelt play there as a regular on a key team, but if he's just covering until someone else is ready, say Brett, or if he's just spot-starting/platooning, he's fine.

[toonsterwu]

I've also been wondering to myself whether we shouldn't offload as many veterans as possible, but extend Garza and build the rotation around him.

 

Yeah, my ideal scenario is a get a blow away package or just lock him up and build around Castro & Garza.

 

At this point, there's almost little point to try and build around Garza as a key piece. By the time we're ready to push, probably 2014 at earliest, Garza will be through his team-controlled years and hitting his 30's. Might as well get max value for him, which is now, with two more team-controlled years and coming off his best season yet.

[Brett]

Wait, Sappelt played *CF* in the minors??? I assumed he was a corner outfielder.

 

This just keeps getting better.

 

How likely is he to stick there?

 

I don't know if I'd care to have Sappelt play there as a regular on a key team, but if he's just covering until someone else is ready, say Brett, or if he's just spot-starting/platooning, he's fine.

 

For what it's worth, Goldstein says Sappelt can't play CF in the Majors.

 

Even if that's true, obviously, the deal is still quite awesome.

[dew1679666265]

I'd rather the Cubs had signed Pujols too but that train has left the station. It doesn't appear to me that the Cubs are going to be willing to take a leap of faith in the FA market currently. That will definitely slow down the process.

 

I was saying that mainly to point out how averse I am to giving more than 5 years and big money to a pitcher. I'd have been ok with giving that contract to Pujols, and I'd be willing to give a huge contract to one FA pitcher next offseason, but there's too much risk to give it to 2 of them - especially if fewer than we expect hit the market and bidding wars ensue.

 

A Cain, Hamels, Wood, Cashner/Shark, and pitcher (Garza return)/McNutt would make a competitive rotation. Add Fielder to Castro, DeJesus, Soto, Bjax, Barney and a corner outfielder (Garza return) and the offense could be improved enough to be very competitive.

 

The rotation would look pretty good, but that offense is kind of bad. Prince and Castro are the best two hitters - and the only legitimately good ones - and then you have a 31 year old Soto, a developing BJax, an aging DeJesus, and Barney. That corner OF better be really good if we're going to be very competitive for anything other than .500.

[toonsterwu]

So Sappelt is essential Tony Campana, but a year younger and with more power. Ronald Torreyes is a 2b. He looks like he's got a good eye and a solid glove, overall it looks like a solid return for Marshall.

 

Sappelt is better than Campana. Campana has more speed, but Sappelt has a more rounded offensive game, which is more valuable unless your sole goal is speed.

[toonsterwu]

I have to think Torreyes immediately becomes a top 5 prospect in the system.

 

Heck no. top 5? I mean, I can understand KG's optimistic take of 11th in the system, but top 5? Baez, Brett Jackson, Szczur, McNutt, Rhee Maples, Wells, and etcetera would easily top him for me. He's not that much more advanced than Marco Hernandez, and hernandez has a better shot to stick at short, so I'd take Marco over him.

 

Our system isn't terrible. Even almost all of the key analyzers out there have acknwoledged that we aren't terrible. Below average, yes. But for a Jose Altuve type to be top 5 would mean a terrible system.

[dew1679666265]

For what it's worth, Goldstein says Sappelt can't play CF in the Majors.

 

Even if that's true, obviously, the deal is still quite awesome.

 

Yeah, if Sappelt's a corner guy only in the majors then he's probably a 4th OF as his ceiling. A good one, but still a 4th OF. You're right that the trade is still really good, though.

[SpongeWorthy]

How does one pronounce Torreyes? Edited December 23, 2011 by SpongeWorthy

[Guest]

I have to think Torreyes immediately becomes a top 5 prospect in the system.

 

Heck no. top 5? I mean, I can understand KG's optimistic take of 11th in the system, but top 5? Baez, Brett Jackson, Szczur, McNutt, Rhee Maples, Wells, and etcetera would easily top him for me. He's not that much more advanced than Marco Hernandez, and hernandez has a better shot to stick at short, so I'd take Marco over him.

 

I think you have to give more weight to the Midwest league if you're comparing him to Hernandez.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So Sappelt is essential Tony Campana, but a year younger and with more power. Ronald Torreyes is a 2b. He looks like he's got a good eye and a solid glove, overall it looks like a solid return for Marshall.

 

Sappelt is better than Campana. Campana has more speed, but Sappelt has a more rounded offensive game, which is more valuable unless your sole goal is speed.

 

Sappelt is one year removed from hitting 53 XBH in a season at AA and AAA.

 

Tony Campana has exactly 53 XBH in his entire professional career spanning more than 400 games.

 

I guess if we stipulate that "More power" means "A whole lot more power" then I can see the comparison.

[toonsterwu]

Sappelt is more in that Sam Fuld mode. Nothing too exciting, but he obviously could hold value as a depth OF. Furthermore, if they decide to trade Byrd and Brett Jackson isn't ready, Sappelt could perhaps fight for some CF playing time.

 

Not trying to rag on you because you take a different but valid approach, but I don't see the Fuld comp.

 

Fuld was a .285 .372 .405 .777 hitter in the minors, and was pretty much that exact hitter every step of the way.

 

Sappelt has been a .309 .362 .459 .821 hitter in the minors, and those are actually dragged down a bit by his low minors struggles. He's been an .875 or so OPS hitter in AA and AAA.

 

Fuld was a guy whose ceiling was an okay reserve outfielder. Sappelt looks to me like that's his floor with an upside of an adequate/mediocre starter.

 

fair enough. I was more making the comp because I think both are more depth OF's than starters, but I will say that I don't really buy Sappelt's minor league power translating. I have high doubts that with his approach and swing that he could put together the .120 ISOP that Fuld put up this year. I'd also argue that Fuld probably has a better approach at the plate. Pre-injury, Fuld was probably the better athlete and defensive player, something that is somewhat forgotten these days. All in all, I view both of those guys as reserves who really shouldn't be starters in a positive scenario.