Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[davell]

Dombrowski says Turner isn't available and hasn't been looking for pitching. If so, I think it's likely Garza's a Cub in 2012.

[El Duderino]

Dombrowski says Turner isn't available and hasn't been looking for pitching. If so, I think it's likely Garza's a Cub in 2012.

 

poo

[davell]

According to Kaplan and an "impeccable source" Theo won't budge off the asking price for Garza. I'm thinking we're keeping him at this point. The Yankees, Tigers, Red Sox, and Blue Jays have all said on some level that they're out. Could be posturing obviously, but the more I think about it, the more I really think we NEED to trade him now. It's certainly not looking like we'll be competitive in 2012. 2013? By Theo's comments about not spending big until we're contending or ready to anyway, 2013 seems unlikely to me. That leaves us with 2014 and 2015, if we gave him a 4 year deal. Those would be his 30 and 31 year old seasons and we're right back to where we are currently with him. 2 years from FA. And we've paid him to pitch for us over the 2 noncontending seasons around 20 mill. Go ahead and deal him now, Theo. I'm fairly sure you can get back the same value or more than what we gave up for him. Forget the winning each year is sacred nonsense, because it's not happening in 2012 and you know it, moreso than we do.

[El Duderino]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

[XZero771679666304]

According to Kaplan and an "impeccable source" Theo won't budge off the asking price for Garza. I'm thinking we're keeping him at this point. The Yankees, Tigers, Red Sox, and Blue Jays have all said on some level that they're out. Could be posturing obviously, but the more I think about it, the more I really think we NEED to trade him now. It's certainly not looking like we'll be competitive in 2012. 2013? By Theo's comments about not spending big until we're contending or ready to anyway, 2013 seems unlikely to me. That leaves us with 2014 and 2015, if we gave him a 4 year deal. Those would be his 30 and 31 year old seasons and we're right back to where we are currently with him. 2 years from FA. And we've paid him to pitch for us over the 2 noncontending seasons around 20 mill. Go ahead and deal him now, Theo. I'm fairly sure you can get back the same value or more than what we gave up for him. Forget the winning each year is sacred nonsense, because it's not happening in 2012 and you know it, moreso than we do.

 

I think we might get more for him at the deadline, when teams are good and desperate. If the Yankees are in a dogfight with the Sox in July, they might be more willing to surrender a package with Montero and one of the Bs.

 

If you can't get what you want for him now, start extension talks and if they don't go smoothly, deal him in July.

[TruffleShuffle]

just because no team out there is willing to give up a king's ransom for him now doesn't mean that won't change. guys become injured and ineffective and good teams get desperate, especially for frontline starting pitching. obviously garza is an injury risk (because he's a pitcher), but if he throws like a solid #2 there will be a nice market for him this year.

[davell]

I like taking the known, more than the unknown. We know he has value right now. He's also the best guy on the market, with4 or 5 teams that have pursued him. At the deadline? What if 2012 isn't as good for him? What if King Felix, one of Lincecum or Cain, maybe Greinke, maybe David Price are all being dangled? Which is possible. I'm not willing to take those risks unless the offers currently don't at least equal what we gave up for him to begin with. My guess though, is we can get more than what we gave up. How much more is the question really, but even if it's the same, I'm going through with it.

[TruffleShuffle]

I like taking the known, more than the unknown.

 

unfortunately what is also known is that three teams which seemed desperate for young-ish starting pitching (reds, nationals, arizona) just gave up nice prospect packages, and maybe the other teams out there on the market aren't as interested in giving up big-time prospects.

[davell]

I like taking the known, more than the unknown.

 

unfortunately what is also known is that three teams which seemed desperate for young-ish starting pitching (reds, nationals, arizona) just gave up nice prospect packages, and maybe the other teams out there on the market aren't as interested in giving up big-time prospects.

While true, I don't think we should expect a package as good as what Oakland got for Gio or the Pads got for Latos. Cahill? Sure, in fact I think we should get slightly more. But, in each of those cases, even if the pitcher is not quite as good as Garza(debateable, except with Cahill, who's just not, period) they were cheaper and had 2 more years of control as well. While we don't know the packages offered, if any of these teams blink, I'm jumping on it, if I'm Theo. One of them likely signs Kuroda, but my hope is he goes back to Japan. Hell, I hope Oswalt winds up with the Cards, just to keep him off these teams radars as well. And Jackson wanting 15 to 17 mill per year, surely scares the hell out of them. I guess I'm saying, I want one of these teams to up the ante, even if it's just a tad, so we can get this thing done.

[toonsterwu]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

 

I think there's very little chance Ryan Zimmerman will leave the Nationals. In fact, I'd be rather shocked.

[erik316wttn]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

 

I think there's very little chance Ryan Zimmerman will leave the Nationals. In fact, I'd be rather shocked.

 

I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why. Does he have a strong commitment to the team and/or city that I don't know about? Would he give a large "hometown discount?"

[toonsterwu]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

 

I think there's very little chance Ryan Zimmerman will leave the Nationals. In fact, I'd be rather shocked.

 

I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why. Does he have a strong commitment to the team and/or city that I don't know about? Would he give a large "hometown discount?"

 

He played college ball in the area (UVA ... I think he's from NC off the top), is well-rooted in the city. I didn't mean for it to come out like fact that he wouldn't - I certainly don't have inside information, but most indications are that he's very happy here, the Lerners are loaded with money and part of their uncertainty over paying for Fielder is supposedly because they know they will give Z a 20 mil+ per year deal in a couple years, and the team is getting ready to be competitive.

[Sammy Sofa]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

 

I think there's very little chance Ryan Zimmerman will leave the Nationals. In fact, I'd be rather shocked.

 

I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why. Does he have a strong commitment to the team and/or city that I don't know about? Would he give a large "hometown discount?"

 

He'll have been there for a while and there's a decent chance they'll be pretty damn good by the time he's a FA.

 

I find it interesting how many times Votto's name comes up in terms of FA targets when he'll be 31 by the time he's available.

[XZero771679666304]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

 

I think there's very little chance Ryan Zimmerman will leave the Nationals. In fact, I'd be rather shocked.

 

I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why. Does he have a strong commitment to the team and/or city that I don't know about? Would he give a large "hometown discount?"

 

He'll have been there for a while and there's a decent chance they'll be pretty damn good by the time he's a FA.

 

I find it interesting how many times Votto's name comes up in terms of FA targets when he'll be 31 by the time he's available.

 

I don't think many people realize how old he is.

[El Duderino]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

 

I think there's very little chance Ryan Zimmerman will leave the Nationals. In fact, I'd be rather shocked.

 

I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why. Does he have a strong commitment to the team and/or city that I don't know about? Would he give a large "hometown discount?"

 

He'll have been there for a while and there's a decent chance they'll be pretty damn good by the time he's a FA.

 

I find it interesting how many times Votto's name comes up in terms of FA targets when he'll be 31 by the time he's available.

 

I don't think many people realize how old he is.

 

count me in that group. what the hell, didn't he just come up like 2 years ago?

[SouthSideRyan]

I like taking the known, more than the unknown.

 

Then wouldn't you want to keep Garza?

[Clem Fandango]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

 

I think there's very little chance Ryan Zimmerman will leave the Nationals. In fact, I'd be rather shocked.

 

I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why. Does he have a strong commitment to the team and/or city that I don't know about? Would he give a large "hometown discount?"

 

He'll have been there for a while and there's a decent chance they'll be pretty damn good by the time he's a FA.

 

I find it interesting how many times Votto's name comes up in terms of FA targets when he'll be 31 by the time he's available.

 

He'll be 30 when he reaches FA. He'll be 28 this year and is a FA after the 2013 season

[Sammy Sofa]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

 

I think there's very little chance Ryan Zimmerman will leave the Nationals. In fact, I'd be rather shocked.

 

I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why. Does he have a strong commitment to the team and/or city that I don't know about? Would he give a large "hometown discount?"

 

He'll have been there for a while and there's a decent chance they'll be pretty damn good by the time he's a FA.

 

I find it interesting how many times Votto's name comes up in terms of FA targets when he'll be 31 by the time he's available.

 

He'll be 30 when he reaches FA. He'll be 28 this year and is a FA after the 2013 season

 

He'll turn 31 during his first season after whatever deal he signs. We're really splitting hairs if we're thinking that turning 31 in, say, February instead of September really makes that much of a difference giving the hemming and hawing certain segments have been repeating ad nauseum about signing the right big players at "the right ages."

[XZero771679666304]

 

He'll turn 31 during his first season after whatever deal he signs. We're really splitting hairs if we're thinking that turning 31 in, say, February instead of September really makes that much of a difference giving the hemming and hawing certain segments have been repeating ad nauseum about signing the right big players at "the right ages."

 

Right. Signing Fielder right now would be a more prudent move than waiting for Votto (who may or may not even make it to FA). Banking on potential free agents not to be extended by their team or traded and extended while passing on current FAs is a flawed and dangerous strategy.

[toonsterwu]

Barring a Prince signing, I'm really not expecting them to spend to address the need at 1st base long term, at least, not through FA. If it's not Prince, and no signs are pointing that way, I expect it'll be some current high minor youngster with some potential or a young MLB guy on a small market team that they may try to pry away. Short of it is, I'll be rather surprised if they pursue Votto down the line, unless they simply are that one piece away. But with the years it's likely to involve, I'm just not sure I see it.

 

Guess we have to first get through the mess of 2012 before we can start speculating on that, though.

[Rob]

 

He'll turn 31 during his first season after whatever deal he signs. We're really splitting hairs if we're thinking that turning 31 in, say, February instead of September really makes that much of a difference giving the hemming and hawing certain segments have been repeating ad nauseum about signing the right big players at "the right ages."

 

Right. Signing Fielder right now would be a more prudent move than waiting for Votto (who may or may not even make it to FA). Banking on potential free agents not to be extended by their team or traded and extended while passing on current FAs is a flawed and dangerous strategy.

 

Yup.

[davell]

I like taking the known, more than the unknown.

 

Then wouldn't you want to keep Garza?

Nah, because it looks like we'll be a couple of years away from contention. If I thought we'd be a contender in 2013, I'd say yes. But, at this point, I don't see it. Giving him a 4 or 5 year deal, where at least 2 of them are wasted with us trying to get to 75 wins doesn't appeal to me. I trust the talent evaluators we have now to get us some extremely solid, close to being ready talent, in return. Including, hopefully anyway, a guy that'll slot into his spot in the rotation. If I could see a scenario where we'll be contenders before 2014, without trading him, I'd think differently.

[CincyCubsFan]

 

He'll turn 31 during his first season after whatever deal he signs. We're really splitting hairs if we're thinking that turning 31 in, say, February instead of September really makes that much of a difference giving the hemming and hawing certain segments have been repeating ad nauseum about signing the right big players at "the right ages."

 

Right. Signing Fielder right now would be a more prudent move than waiting for Votto (who may or may not even make it to FA). Banking on potential free agents not to be extended by their team or traded and extended while passing on current FAs is a flawed and dangerous strategy.

 

 

The same old choruses are going to be repeated offseason after offseason (he's not an ideal age, we'll be overpaying in the last two years of the deal, let's wait for someone better to come along, etc.,) I don't know why people think things are going to be different in 2013 than they were this year.

[Backtobanks]

 

He'll turn 31 during his first season after whatever deal he signs. We're really splitting hairs if we're thinking that turning 31 in, say, February instead of September really makes that much of a difference giving the hemming and hawing certain segments have been repeating ad nauseum about signing the right big players at "the right ages."

 

Right. Signing Fielder right now would be a more prudent move than waiting for Votto (who may or may not even make it to FA). Banking on potential free agents not to be extended by their team or traded and extended while passing on current FAs is a flawed and dangerous strategy.

 

That's my problem with Theo's plan. Waiting until the time is right to spend on FAs might not ever happen and if they do happen you have to outbid the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. Those teams took this offseason off, the Cards and Brewers lost the hearts of their lineups, and we are hoping for a 70-win season.

[Backtobanks]

i hope to hell theo's ready after 2013. Zimmerman + Votto could be available

 

Why would we be interested when we have Lahair and Stewart? :lol: