Quade goes off on Castro, Barney

[CubColtPacer]

Nuts, he is terrible in LF.

 

You know this.

 

He's really not, although most of that is how bad all LF's are.

 

For example, look at the other LF's in the Cubs division. Braun, Gomes, Holliday, Lee, and Tabata. I'd probably take Soriano defensively over Lee, Braun, or Gomes because Soriano has at least one elite part of his defense (arm) while those three just struggle at all parts of their game. Soriano's a below average defensive outfielder, but he's a pretty average defensive LF.

[Sammy Sofa]

No, he's really not. He makes some moronic mistakes from time to time (the irony of people defending Castro so passionately yet seemingly wanting Soriano executed after the same thing happened to him in Pittsburgh a few seasons back is hilarious), but all in all he's a perfectly capable LF.

 

Actually you are noticing an irony that doesn't exist. People are blasting Quade for his idiotic statements, not defending Castro. The problem is Quade would never do the same thing to a person like Soriano but he has repeatedly called out Castro.

 

Soriano isn't perfectly capable. He's not as bad as some paint him, but he's a problem. If he could hit you could easily ignore that problem, but he hasn't hit worth a crap either.

 

No, he really is a capable fielder. And yes, it is ironic because you have had people here in this thread (rightly) defend Castro in the face of Quade's dumb comments: sometimes fielders do just lose the ball in the sun. Yet you had people here at the time of Soriano's mishap that were flipping out and complaining the Lou didn't yank him from the game or call him out for it or bench him.

[MSG T]

Johnson isn't much better. Fielders "laying out" really doesn't impress me.

 

He just has a better reputation because of a couple of fantastic diving catches. Granted, many CF would have gotten to those balls without diving, but still. And you're right, Johnson isn't much better.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Johnson isn't much better. Fielders "laying out" really doesn't impress me.

 

He just has a better reputation because of a couple of fantastic diving catches. Granted, many CF would have gotten to those balls without diving, but still. And you're right, Johnson isn't much better.

 

White and gritty>Ethnic and lazy.

[XZero771679666304]

Johnson isn't much better. Fielders "laying out" really doesn't impress me.

 

 

It's the sort of scrappy crap meatheads devour. Flinging yourself all over the field =/= being a good defender. Soriano isn't a good fielder, but it has absolutely nothing to do with his lack of wallbanging and flopping about.

[Abe Frohman]

By all means, let's completely disregard hustle. It has absolutely no place in baseball.

[jersey cubs fan]

No, he really is a capable fielder. And yes, it is ironic because you have had people here in this thread (rightly) defend Castro in the face of Quade's dumb comments: sometimes fielders do just lose the ball in the sun. Yet you had people here at the time of Soriano's mishap that were flipping out and complaining the Lou didn't yank him from the game or call him out for it or bench him.

 

Soriano didn't lose it in the sun, it was night time, I was there, it was pathetic. (wait, sorry, was thinking of other game, it was sun)

 

And no, you are still wrong about the irony. People are defending Castro against HIS MANAGERS IDIOTIC ATTACKS in a game they were blown out in during a lost season while explicitly defending the veterans. There is absolutely no comparison to fans getting pissed at a player who made a terrible play that lost the game during a pennant race.

[XZero771679666304]

By all means, let's completely disregard hustle. It has absolutely no place in baseball.

 

 

No one is saying that. You just can't conflate hustle with being good. It helps, but sometimes people look at someone playing with their ass on fire and assume that makes them a better player. It does not.

[Guest]

By all means, let's completely disregard hustle. It has absolutely no place in baseball.

 

Hustle is part of how you get to the on field results, and therefore already reflected when you evaluate a player by performance. You don't get to double count it for or against a player just because you like/hate the way it looks on the field.

[Sammy Sofa]

No, he really is a capable fielder. And yes, it is ironic because you have had people here in this thread (rightly) defend Castro in the face of Quade's dumb comments: sometimes fielders do just lose the ball in the sun. Yet you had people here at the time of Soriano's mishap that were flipping out and complaining the Lou didn't yank him from the game or call him out for it or bench him.

 

Soriano didn't lose it in the sun, it was night time, I was there, it was pathetic. (wait, sorry, was thinking of other game, it was sun)

 

And no, you are still wrong about the irony. People are defending Castro against HIS MANAGERS IDIOTIC ATTACKS in a game they were blown out in during a lost season while explicitly defending the veterans. There is absolutely no comparison to fans getting pissed at a player who made a terrible play that lost the game during a pennant race.

 

There's plenty of comparison. As it's been correctly pointed out, sometimes fielders just lose the ball in the sun and there's nothing that they can do about it. I understand why people were pissed when Soriano couldn't see the ball in 2008, but the response from much of the fanbase was well beyond the pale even with the pennant race circumstances. In both cases neither player deserved or deserves to be ripped apart, be it by fans, the press or their managers over those particular plays.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Sammy Sofa

[Abe Frohman]

HUSTLE is a way you play the game. You milk everything you got, put it all out there for your teammates. If you hustle, you are respected. You either do it, or you don't. It has everything to do with the way a ballplayer does his job.

[Sammy Sofa]

"Going all out" too often leads to stupid mistakes, botched plays and unnecessary injuries. It has its place, but by no means should players be going "all out" every single time they make a play.

[Guest]

HUSTLE is a way you play the game. You milk everything you got, put it all out there for your teammates. If you hustle, you are respected. You either do it, or you don't. It has everything to do with the way a ballplayer does his job.

 

Well now you're just listing off cliches.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

HUSTLE is a way you play the game. You milk everything you got, put it all out there for your teammates. If you hustle, you are respected. You either do it, or you don't. It has everything to do with the way a ballplayer does his job.

Subjective evaluation of past performances already includes their "hustle", and those evaluations have taught us that Reed Johnson isn't as good defensively as you think he is.

[XZero771679666304]

"Going all out" too often leads to stupid mistakes, botched plays and unnecessary injuries. It has its place, but by no means should players be going "all out" every single time they make a play.

 

Exactly. I don't want to see Soriano going "all out". He'd be even worse, and probably hurt himself in the process. I don't want to see Aramis busting it down the line on every flyball or grounder, because he'll hurt himself.

 

You don't just sacrifice your body at every opportunity out some misguided need to prove your commitment. That's just incredibly stupid, not to mention counterproductive.

[CubColtPacer]

HUSTLE is a way you play the game. You milk everything you got, put it all out there for your teammates. If you hustle, you are respected. You either do it, or you don't. It has everything to do with the way a ballplayer does his job.

 

The question becomes is if that you don't hustle, do your teammates perform worse? If they do, they're not doing their jobs correctly. If they don't, then not hustling doesn't have nearly as big of an impact.

 

Can hustling make a ballplayer better? Absolutely. Is seeing a player not hustling and knowing he could be better if he would just try harder frustrating? Sure. But hustle is just one of the components like hitting, fielding, baserunning. And it's probably not the most important component because you rarely if ever see a guy who is absolutely terrible at hustling in the majors (if a player lightly jogged after most balls for example he would be kicked out of the league very quickly). If you have two players that are close on the other skills, the hustling player will probably be better. But hustling can't make up for much greater skills in batting and fielding for example.

 

And as TT said, when you look at the performance of a player, hustling is already taken into account. A non-hustling player will be worse than what he could be if he was hustling, but they're often still better than players with limited talent who do hustle. The hustling player has already maximized their numbers-you shouldn't give them an extra bonus on top of it.

[Old Style]

"Going all out" too often leads to stupid mistakes, botched plays and unnecessary injuries. It has its place, but by no means should players be going "all out" every single time they make a play.

Tell that to Charlie Hustle.

[SouthSideRyan]

GROOOOOOAAAAAAANNNNNNNN

[Sammy Sofa]

Why, so he can ruin someone else's career over a [expletive] ASG?

[davell]

This season has morphed directly into watching the minors closely and pulling for some serious overslots with the draft picks. Literally, the ONLY thing worth paying attention to on the major league level IS Castro.

 

And if Quade wants to pile on him(and Barney, for that matter) get him out now. It's bad enough that these young guys are stuck with this dead ass team anyway with a bunch of guys who are just playing out the string.

 

I'd say there are at least a handful of other guys worth paying attention to and who are not just "playing out the string."

 

Ramirez, Soto, Dempster, Zambrano, Garza and Wells.

 

Those guys have been mostly good, except for Wells (who needs to bounce back to at least a level of competence). Soto struggled early but has been pretty good since May despite the occasional setback. Another group may be nothings special to watch or hope for, but Byrd and Pena hardly look "dead ass".

 

The team is no good, but let's not pretend it's about guys just not trying.

 

Yeah, I should clarify that somewhat. I didn't mean to insinuate that we had nobody else on the team that's not worth following. Just that we basically already know what these other guys are capable of. I'd even add Pena to your list, but I think I'm very close to the point where I may take Wells off soon. Just don't know whether or not he'll have another season like his first one(or maybe even his second one, for that matter). Nothing to back it up either, just a gut feeling.

 

On the other hand, I hold out hope Garza turns into a bonafide ace and if not, I definitely think he's an extremely strong 2 on a good team.

[Benchwarmer]

I don't want to see Aramis busting it down the line on every flyball or grounder, because he'll hurt himself.

 

Yikes.

 

The Kool-Aid stand is open early this year.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't want to see Aramis busting it down the line on every flyball or grounder, because he'll hurt himself.

 

Yikes.

 

The Kool-Aid stand is open early this year.

 

SOMEBODY TAKE THE SHOT.

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't want to see Aramis busting it down the line on every flyball or grounder, because he'll hurt himself.

 

Yikes.

 

The Kool-Aid stand is open early this year.

 

SOMEBODY TAKE THE SHOT.

 

I HOPE HE SKIPS THE KOOL-AID AND GOES RIGHT FOR THE CYANIDE

[SouthSideRyan]

Why, so he can ruin someone else's career over a [expletive] ASG?

 

So he can put his own personal achievements over the good of the team, and possibly cost them the pennant by playing himself and betting against them?

[Old Style]

The man hustled his way to more hits than any other player to ever play the game. Sabremetricize THAT!