What happened to the site

[USSoccer]

So we should have more people being contrarian simply for the sake of it?

[SouthSideRyan]

Rob, I hereby put you in charge of respectfully arguing with anyone who makes repetitive dumb arguments.

[USSoccer]

In the movies, if drastic times occur, drastic measures are taken:

 

FDB

 

It may be our only hope

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm still of the opinion that complaining about the quality of the baseball posts is the equivalent of asking other people to work for your entertainment.

 

If you want quality baseball posts, go make them.

[CubmanPi]

Rob, I hereby put you in charge of respectfully arguing with anyone who makes repetitive dumb arguments.

If a post doesn't warrant a respectful reply, it doesn't warrant a reply at all. Don't validate the dumb repetitive arguments by taking the time to reply to them.

[XZero771679666304]

Rob, I hereby put you in charge of respectfully arguing with anyone who makes repetitive dumb arguments.

If a post doesn't warrant a respectful reply, it doesn't warrant a reply at all. Don't validate the dumb repetitive arguments by taking the time to reply to them.

 

It's hard not to respond sometimes, but this is generally my attitude. If somebody says something stupid with real conviction, they're probably set in their stupidity and it's not worth trying to debate them, unless you just get off on the conflict.

 

But you don't have to be totally opposed to someone's viewpoint to have a debate. Many of the best discussions here were debates on aspects of an issue rather than the nature of it.

 

But at the same time if you come in here and say something patently stupid I don't think you should be surprised to be lambasted, or expect to be coddled.

 

And Rob, I don't think many of the bullies want to see new blood. It's easier to feel like king of the hill when there are fewer to challenge you and easier to feel superior when you have the same whipping boys hanging around.

[davearm2]

In short, I'm not surprised by the situation. The nature of internet message boards themselves seems to dicate that nobody will stick around forever. The trick is always in keeping fresh blood coming in. And since the Cubs are awful, I can hardly blame people for not being interested enough to show up on the boards. Hopefully registrations will tick up when the Cubs get better. That said, there is a major problem with civility on this board. And it appears to my untrained eye that many mods have decided they would rather have rude members posting correct information than more civil members being stupid.

 

I apologize in advance for the example I'm about to use, but I feel it illustrates the situation fairly well.

 

davearm has been known to annoy the hell out of me. He is constantly posting ridiculous crap that I find patently absurd. It's apparent that most of the board feels the same way, from the reactions he garners. Each and every time he posts, the same people come in and just lambast him... and it's rarely civil. And yet I never see anybody get in trouble for being so rude to him. But without guys like davearm around, I probably wouldn't post at all. Because without an opposing side, there isn't an interesting debate to be had. How he's managed the desire to stick around despite being shouted down on each of his last thousand posts, I'll never know... but I respect the hell out of it.

 

If the quality of posts here is going to go back to where we all want it to, it all starts with keeping a civil tone so that actual conversations can be had. I wont single anybody out, as I have been guilty of it in the past too... but the snark is out of control.

 

We need to stop scaring people away.

With all due respect Rob, characterizing my viewpoint as "ridiculous crap" makes you part of the elitist know-it-all (and uncivilized) problem others have alluded to. Who are you to decide what's ridiculous crap? It'd be more accurate to characterize me as a liberal amongst a crowd of conservatives (or visa versa). We may not often agree, but that doesn't inherently make either of us idiots, or what we have to say ridiculous. Therein lies the problem here. There's virtually no tolerance for opposing viewpionts or differences of opinion. Right and wrong is treated as black and white. The notion that reasonable minds can differ on a particular issue does not live here. At all.

 

That, as much as anything else, is what has stifled this board, IMO. The fact that this intolerance is often portrayed so smugly and maliciously surely doesn't help matters, either.

[Banghart]

I'm not sure I can add much to this discussion. It has been interesting to read, however. I, too, was wondering a similar thing when I made my way back to this place. I was part of the initial exodus from the Cubs.com forum, and while not a frequent poster I was a regular lurker for many years. I will admit that the past few years have sapped my Cubs interest, and if the Blackhawks were still making a run or it looked like football was going to happen this year I might have stayed away.

 

That said it is kind of sad to see the main forums I would visit with little activity each day. I understand that it is difficult to talk about the rather depressing state of this team, but this forum was fairly active through the lull following 2004. A few of the posters in this thread have brought up issues that I think have been a problem for a while with issues of civility. Also I've noticed more than a few of the regular posters from the time when I was around more frequently appear to be gone for a variety of reasons.

 

Since I don't know what the solution is I just hope for better baseball because it will make my summer better and this forum better.

[Rob]

In short, I'm not surprised by the situation. The nature of internet message boards themselves seems to dicate that nobody will stick around forever. The trick is always in keeping fresh blood coming in. And since the Cubs are awful, I can hardly blame people for not being interested enough to show up on the boards. Hopefully registrations will tick up when the Cubs get better. That said, there is a major problem with civility on this board. And it appears to my untrained eye that many mods have decided they would rather have rude members posting correct information than more civil members being stupid.

 

I apologize in advance for the example I'm about to use, but I feel it illustrates the situation fairly well.

 

davearm has been known to annoy the hell out of me. He is constantly posting ridiculous crap that I find patently absurd. It's apparent that most of the board feels the same way, from the reactions he garners. Each and every time he posts, the same people come in and just lambast him... and it's rarely civil. And yet I never see anybody get in trouble for being so rude to him. But without guys like davearm around, I probably wouldn't post at all. Because without an opposing side, there isn't an interesting debate to be had. How he's managed the desire to stick around despite being shouted down on each of his last thousand posts, I'll never know... but I respect the hell out of it.

 

If the quality of posts here is going to go back to where we all want it to, it all starts with keeping a civil tone so that actual conversations can be had. I wont single anybody out, as I have been guilty of it in the past too... but the snark is out of control.

 

We need to stop scaring people away.

With all due respect Rob, characterizing my viewpoint as "ridiculous crap" makes you part of the elitist know-it-all (and uncivilized) problem others have alluded to. Who are you to decide what's ridiculous crap? It'd be more accurate to characterize me as a liberal amongst a crowd of conservatives (or visa versa). We may not often agree, but that doesn't inherently make either of us idiots, or what we have to say ridiculous. Therein lies the problem here. There's virtually no tolerance for opposing viewpionts or differences of opinion. Right and wrong is treated as black and white. The notion that reasonable minds can differ on a particular issue does not live here. At all.

 

That, as much as anything else, is what has stifled this board, IMO. The fact that this intolerance is often portrayed so smugly and maliciously surely doesn't help matters, either.

 

I both apologized in advance for the remainder of that post and admitted guilt in the past. You were singled out so I hardly begrudge your response, but I hope that in rereading my post you can see that I appreciate the value you bring to this board even when I do feel what you are posting is ridiculous. And I hope you don't feel as though I've been too rude in my interactions with you at those times. That said, I don't blame you if you hit the "foe" button.

 

As to the meat of your post, I'd have to say that reasonable minds can only differ a reasonable amount. After that, somebody is being unreasonable and the responsible thing to do is show why they are mistaken. That's where I feel the breakdown in communication is occurring... instead of people taking the time to point out mistakes, we are just loudly mocking them into submission.

[Rob]

Rob, I hereby put you in charge of respectfully arguing with anyone who makes repetitive dumb arguments.

 

I didn't say it was always easy. But failing at respectfully disagreeing, I've found it best to say nothing and click a different thread.

[treebird]

there's a real limit to how interesting a board can be if our only goal is to civilly disagree with morons. if rational minds aren't going to differ, then who cares if the board dies? we smart people already know everything we need to know and should just enjoy baseball alone.

 

i disagree with the premise that we non-morons all think basically the same, though. i think there's a lot to be learned from fellow smart people. the goal, then, should be to encourage smart people to join in an effort to further the discussion. i can think of two ways to do this that have nothing to do with how good the cubs are (which is important, as tim has unfortunately little control over that aspect):

 

ONE let people make fun of morons. show them they are wrong and embarrass them. either get them to leave or hammer them in humorous ways such that smart non-members see the fun and want to join.

 

TWO ban morons. show smart people that they'll need to be cool to stay, but run a good enough board that they'll have incentive to do so.

 

 

we got rid of cubbiebum, so i guess we've chosen option two. if that's the case, fine by me. finish the job.

[Little Slide Rooter]

What exactly are dumb posts? A lot of it is opinions. Example: there are a lot of fans that like having a guy like Ryan Theriot on their team. While I am not one of them, I can see how they like the gritty, energetic type. Does saying that you like that type of player make one a moron? No. Maybe if they said that that's the type of player they'd like to build a team around, I guess that would make them a moron, at least in regards to baseball. Really, what it comes down to isn't people getting into these debates, which sometimes can get a bit personal, it's when neither party is willing to just let go, and it just keeps going and going.

[USSoccer]

there's a real limit to how interesting a board can be if our only goal is to civilly disagree with morons. if rational minds aren't going to differ, then who cares if the board dies? we smart people already know everything we need to know and should just enjoy baseball alone.

 

i disagree with the premise that we non-morons all think basically the same, though. i think there's a lot to be learned from fellow smart people. the goal, then, should be to encourage smart people to join in an effort to further the discussion. i can think of two ways to do this that have nothing to do with how good the cubs are (which is important, as tim has unfortunately little control over that aspect):

 

ONE let people make fun of morons. show them they are wrong and embarrass them. either get them to leave or hammer them in humorous ways such that smart non-members see the fun and want to join.

 

TWO ban morons. show smart people that they'll need to be cool to stay, but run a good enough board that they'll have incentive to do so.

 

 

we got rid of cubbiebum, so i guess we've chosen option two. if that's the case, fine by me. finish the job.

 

This sums up my feelings entirely.

[Little Slide Rooter]

What exactly constitutes a moron in board terms? Is it anyone who gets a bit over zealous in the midst of a game thread? Is it one who doesn't let their arguement go despite being bombarded from multiple directions, whether they're right or wrong? Or is it somebody whose opinion simply differs. Maybe someone who proposes unrealisitc trades, or perhaps gets intrigued by older minor league players who happen to be having a good season. Ill admit that I aint gots me tha baseball smarts of some of the folk on this here computer forum, but thaat doesn't mean that I can't share my opinion an contribute to the discussion despite the fact that I have no idea how to calculate WAR or VORP. I'm not saying that there are posters out there who refuse to let a faulty arguement die, but I learned early on in life that if somebody truely bothers you, just ignore them rather than egg them on, and while an internet forum makes egging somebody on that much easier, it also makes ignoring them even easier. Its a discussion forum, this I understand, but some posters get upset over posters who refuse to simply give up on a faulty arguement, when in reality, the best way to get them to drop said arguement is to stop responding to it.

[NOLA]

What exactly constitutes a moron in board terms?

 

Trashing Ricketts for Undercover Boss.

[Notorious]

The complaint I'm not certain about is when people talk about the number of posts per day. There are still hundreds of posts here every single day. There may not be that many new topics in the baseball forums, but there really isn't a whole lot to talk about there right now.

 

That brings up another question I have. I guess from someone who hasn't participated on the forum in a while it's a little daunting/difficult to get involved in a 300+ pagethread about movies/music/games etc.

 

What exactly is the rationale behind having 1 master thread for topics? To me it makes it hard to go back and join in on the conversation. I guess i'm just more used to another format.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The complaint I'm not certain about is when people talk about the number of posts per day. There are still hundreds of posts here every single day. There may not be that many new topics in the baseball forums, but there really isn't a whole lot to talk about there right now.

 

That brings up another question I have. I guess from someone who hasn't participated on the forum in a while it's a little daunting/difficult to get involved in a 300+ pagethread about movies/music/games etc.

 

What exactly is the rationale behind having 1 master thread for topics? To me it makes it hard to go back and join in on the conversation. I guess i'm just more used to another format.

 

Huh? The social forum has a seperate thread for each of these.

[OleMissCub]

The complaint I'm not certain about is when people talk about the number of posts per day. There are still hundreds of posts here every single day. There may not be that many new topics in the baseball forums, but there really isn't a whole lot to talk about there right now.

 

That brings up another question I have. I guess from someone who hasn't participated on the forum in a while it's a little daunting/difficult to get involved in a 300+ pagethread about movies/music/games etc.

 

What exactly is the rationale behind having 1 master thread for topics? To me it makes it hard to go back and join in on the conversation. I guess i'm just more used to another format.

 

Huh? The social forum has a seperate thread for each of these.

 

That's what he is saying.

 

On most message boards instead of having an one thread titled "Politics thread" or whatever, there will be individual threads that pop up like "dummy Palin now in the race" or "Weinergate".

[Little Slide Rooter]

The complaint I'm not certain about is when people talk about the number of posts per day. There are still hundreds of posts here every single day. There may not be that many new topics in the baseball forums, but there really isn't a whole lot to talk about there right now.

 

That brings up another question I have. I guess from someone who hasn't participated on the forum in a while it's a little daunting/difficult to get involved in a 300+ pagethread about movies/music/games etc.

 

What exactly is the rationale behind having 1 master thread for topics? To me it makes it hard to go back and join in on the conversation. I guess i'm just more used to another format.

 

Huh? The social forum has a seperate thread for each of these.

 

That's what he is saying.

 

On most message boards instead of having an one thread titled "Politics thread" or whatever, there will be individual threads that pop up like "dummy Palin now in the race" or "Weinergate".

 

gotcha. that would kind if make the head spin.

[NCCubFan]

The complaint I'm not certain about is when people talk about the number of posts per day. There are still hundreds of posts here every single day. There may not be that many new topics in the baseball forums, but there really isn't a whole lot to talk about there right now.

 

That brings up another question I have. I guess from someone who hasn't participated on the forum in a while it's a little daunting/difficult to get involved in a 300+ pagethread about movies/music/games etc.

 

What exactly is the rationale behind having 1 master thread for topics? To me it makes it hard to go back and join in on the conversation. I guess i'm just more used to another format.

 

Huh? The social forum has a seperate thread for each of these.

I think he means, for example, having one movie thread rather than separate threads for specific movies.

[OleMissCub]

gotcha. that would kind if make the head spin.

 

I'd actually prefer if there were more topics.

[SouthSideRyan]

If you have a different thread for every movie somebody wants to discuss, or every new band you want to bring up, topics would fall off the front page after a day, and it fosters less discussion.

 

If you go into the movie thread to talk about Bridesmaids, and you see a discussion on what a waste of time Eyes Wide Shut is, you can chime in and dicuss a topic you wouldn't normally have thought to post about. If you go into the music thread to say you heard a song by some hipster band you liked, you can have somebody come along and agree, you see recs by them and you discover a new band.

[soapy]

I think you also end up in a situation where there are several threads discussing the same topic. It's easier to have a general politics thread instead of six different threads about political topics in which everyone ends up talking about the same thing once the topic divulges. At least, that's the way I feel.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I think you also end up in a situation where there are several threads discussing the same topic. It's easier to have a general politics thread instead of six different threads about political topics in which everyone ends up talking about the same thing once the topic divulges. At least, that's the way I feel.

 

This tends to happen in the baseball threads as well. It will start off one way, but then they all seem to funnell into the same basic thing.

[Old Style]

gotcha. that would kind if make the head spin.

 

I'd actually prefer if there were more topics.

Same here.