Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[Cubswin11]

If Hendry is really considering trading one or multiple of Lee, B/J Jackson, Archer, McNutt, or Carpenter he shouldn't be looking at trading for Garza he should be looking at a trade for someone like Grienke, King Felix, Hanley, Josh Johnson, or Cain. Not that all or any of those guys are available but those are the type of guys that should be considered giving up multiple of our top 5 prospects.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If Hendry is really considering trading one or multiple of Lee, B/J Jackson, Archer, McNutt, or Carpenter he shouldn't be looking at trading for Garza he should be looking at a trade for someone like Grienke, King Felix, Hanley, Josh Johnson, or Cain. Not that all or any of those guys are available but those are the type of guys that should be considered giving up multiple of our top 5 prospects.

 

Blue Jays Have No Intention Of Trading Snider And Drabek For Greinke

By Mike Axisa [December 11 at 5:13pm CST]

The Blue Jays have been connected to Zack Greinke basically all offseason, but they have no intention of trading Travis Snider and Kyle Drabek for him according to ESPN's Buster Olney (via Twitter). Obviously, Toronto is not close to completing a deal for the Royals' ace.

 

 

If all the Royals wanted for Greinke is those 2 guys, would Archer, Colvin, and 1 more solid prospect be enough? Colvin is pretty comparable to Snider, though a few years older, however, Archer isnt quite at Drabeks level as a prospect. Perhaps throw in one of J Jax, Carpenter, Guyer, Chirinos, or Castillo.

[MSG T]

My point is that over the course of a season 40 pitchers may put up xFIPs under 4.00. However, not all forty of them do it every year. A lot of them are *true* 4.00-4.50 pitchers who had a good season. Instead, the next year some of the other 4.00-4.50 guys (a large percentage of the world) will have sub 4.00s to make the number still be 40ish. A much smaller number are actually consistently sub 4.00 xFIP guys. There are only 24 pitchers who have a sub 4.00 xFIP collectively the last four year (min 40 starts). There are also just 23 starters who had xFIPs below 4.00 each of the last two seasons.

 

I should also note that xFIP isn't park neutral which is a bit of a problem in the numbers above.

 

So regarding Garza, if you want to complain about him not being a sub 4.00 xFIP guy, well you're just complaining that he's not a top 25 pitcher. He's probably a #3 guy on a good team. That's not an insult.

 

 

Why are you arguing in one thread that an entire seasons worth of stats doesn't show a person actual ability, then in another thread you're arguing that the equivalent of a half season shows exactly what a guy's true ability is? Are you trying to contradict yourself or is it an accident because you don't understand what you're saying?

[SweetZombieJesus]

Colvin is pretty comparable to Snider, though a few years younger.

 

not even close colvin blows and snider is the second coming of jose canseco. Ignore the fact snider has been slightly better than Alex Gordon in the bigs.

[dew1679666265]

Colvin is pretty comparable to Snider, though a few years younger.

 

not even close colvin blows and snider is the second coming of jose canseco. Ignore the fact snider has been slightly better than Alex Gordon in the bigs.

 

Does that mean Snider will blow the whistle on Steroid Scandal Part 2?

[dew1679666265]

So regarding Garza, if you want to complain about him not being a sub 4.00 xFIP guy, well you're just complaining that he's not a top 25 pitcher. He's probably a #3 guy on a good team. That's not an insult.

 

My point about Garza isn't that he's not a good pitcher, he is. I'm just not sold on him being a #2 type starter for the Cubs - in fact I'm not sold that he's all that much better than Randy Wells. The reason I've been using xFIP is because there's a stark difference between it and the ERA, highlighting, to me, that the Rays have a much better defense than the Cubs. That will affect how much improvement we should expect from Garza switching leagues.

 

I've used other stats looking at him as well and, outside of ERA, WHIP and ERA+, I haven't seen the potential elite starter others have argued he is.

[Guest]

dew, do you have xFIP numbers for Lilly for his couple years with Toronto and then his years with the Cubs? I'm just wondering if that number improved for him moving leagues.

[Clem Fandango]

dew, do you have xFIP numbers for Lilly for his couple years with Toronto and then his years with the Cubs? I'm just wondering if that number improved for him moving leagues.

 

I think someone posted them a while back in this thread but I didn't spot them, so I dug them up...

 

Lilly with the Blue Jays 04-06

2004: 4.60

2005: 4.74

2006: 4.52

 

Lilly with Cubs 07-09

2007: 4.31

2008: 4.14

2009: 3.98

 

His 2010 combined between Cubs and Dodgers was 4.16

[Ski]

Guys, we have to trade for Garza. He threw a freakin' NO HITTER.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Colvin is pretty comparable to Snider, though a few years younger.

 

not even close colvin blows and snider is the second coming of jose canseco. Ignore the fact snider has been slightly better than Alex Gordon in the bigs.

 

Does that mean Snider will blow the whistle on Steroid Scandal Part 2?

 

And go bankrupt appear on countless reality shows.

[Guest]

Colvin is pretty comparable to Snider, though a few years younger.

 

not even close colvin blows and snider is the second coming of jose canseco. Ignore the fact snider has been slightly better than Alex Gordon in the bigs.

 

You know, the first 17 times you made this over the top reference it was hilarious, but it's getting a bit stale now.

[javy knows my name]

Colvin is pretty comparable to Snider, though a few years younger.

 

not even close colvin blows and snider is the second coming of jose canseco. Ignore the fact snider has been slightly better than Alex Gordon in the bigs.

Quiet down, adults are talking

[Clem Fandango]

The Nationals are "aggressively pursuing" a trade for Matt Garza or Zack Greinke, according to Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post. However, Kilgore’s source doesn’t expect Washington to trade for either pitcher. Earlier today, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick reported that Royals GM Dayton Moore is actively gauging the market for Greinke.

 

The Rays and Royals could have interest in Ian Desmond and Jordan Zimmermann, but the Nationals are not likely to move either player. However, Kilgore hears that the team would move Danny Espinosa “in a heartbeat.” Roger Bernadina would be available and it’s possible that the Nationals would consider trading Drew Storen or Sean Burnett, according to Kilgore.

 

Another possible acquisition war with the Nats? First Pena, then Webb, now Garza?

[dew1679666265]

The Nationals are "aggressively pursuing" a trade for Matt Garza or Zack Greinke, according to Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post. However, Kilgore’s source doesn’t expect Washington to trade for either pitcher. Earlier today, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick reported that Royals GM Dayton Moore is actively gauging the market for Greinke.

 

The Rays and Royals could have interest in Ian Desmond and Jordan Zimmermann, but the Nationals are not likely to move either player. However, Kilgore hears that the team would move Danny Espinosa “in a heartbeat.” Roger Bernadina would be available and it’s possible that the Nationals would consider trading Drew Storen or Sean Burnett, according to Kilgore.

 

Another possible acquisition war with the Nats? First Pena, then Webb, now Garza?

 

From all the names I've heard, they can beat us on Garza if they'd like.

[Clem Fandango]

The Nationals are "aggressively pursuing" a trade for Matt Garza or Zack Greinke, according to Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post. However, Kilgore’s source doesn’t expect Washington to trade for either pitcher. Earlier today, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick reported that Royals GM Dayton Moore is actively gauging the market for Greinke.

 

The Rays and Royals could have interest in Ian Desmond and Jordan Zimmermann, but the Nationals are not likely to move either player. However, Kilgore hears that the team would move Danny Espinosa “in a heartbeat.” Roger Bernadina would be available and it’s possible that the Nationals would consider trading Drew Storen or Sean Burnett, according to Kilgore.

 

Another possible acquisition war with the Nats? First Pena, then Webb, now Garza?

 

From all the names I've heard, they can beat us on Garza if they'd like.

 

Agreed... I'll be a little miffed if they acquire him for prospects that are worse than the ones they've been rumored to want from us though

[dew1679666265]

Agreed... I'll be a little miffed if they acquire him for prospects that are worse than the ones they've been rumored to want from us though

 

Yeah, that'd be annoying. They have a greater need, though. Their pitching is pretty bad overall.

[davell]

Levine just made an excellent point in his chat today about Garza: The Rays have played this out perfectly and with the Yanks and Rangers missing out on Lee, the Cubs will have a very hard time making this type of deal without severely overpaying at this point, with the added teams now in the mix.

[UMFan83]

Levine just made an excellent point in his chat today about Garza: The Rays have played this out perfectly and with the Yanks and Rangers missing out on Lee, the Cubs will have a very hard time making this type of deal without severely overpaying at this point, with the added teams now in the mix.

 

Exactly. This is a scenario where if the Cubs really wanted someone like Webb or Garza, they should have done everything possible to complete the deal quickly.

[erik316wttn]

Levine just made an excellent point in his chat today about Garza: The Rays have played this out perfectly and with the Yanks and Rangers missing out on Lee, the Cubs will have a very hard time making this type of deal without severely overpaying at this point, with the added teams now in the mix.

 

Exactly. This is a scenario where if the Cubs really wanted someone like Webb or Garza, they should have done everything possible to complete the deal quickly.

 

I don't know why Hendry was fooling around, especially with Webb. He has to have medical records and input from doctors at this point. Either [expletive] or get off the pot. Now, if we do sign him, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more.

[Guest]

So the fallback for people who were ready to give Cliff Lee 100 million dollars is to get Brandon Webb, who hasn't pitched in 2 years?

[davell]

I think that if the reports are true from Levine that we only have 3-5 mill left to play with, Hendry's hands could be tied until he unloads Fukudome/Gorzelanny or whoever else he may be trying to dump, in order to make a signing like Webb(who'l probably be guaranteed more than 5 mill assuming his doc is right anyway) or even a trade for Garza, who probably is going to be making 5-6 mill in arb.

[davell]

Also, I think our best case scenario to get Garza would also include the Yanks resigning Pettitte and the Rangers signing Pavano. The first move, I suspect WILL happen, while I kind of think the Rangers will make a splash by signing Beltre, leaving them with the ammo to go get Garza, if they want to.

[UMFan83]

Levine just made an excellent point in his chat today about Garza: The Rays have played this out perfectly and with the Yanks and Rangers missing out on Lee, the Cubs will have a very hard time making this type of deal without severely overpaying at this point, with the added teams now in the mix.

 

Exactly. This is a scenario where if the Cubs really wanted someone like Webb or Garza, they should have done everything possible to complete the deal quickly.

 

I don't know why Hendry was fooling around, especially with Webb. He has to have medical records and input from doctors at this point. Either [expletive] or get off the pot. Now, if we do sign him, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more.

 

Well the reason I didn't blame Hendry for not moving quickly is because it's completely unknown whether the hesitation was on Henrdry's or on Webb's/the Rays' to let the market play out.

[jersey cubs fan]

Levine just made an excellent point in his chat today about Garza: The Rays have played this out perfectly and with the Yanks and Rangers missing out on Lee, the Cubs will have a very hard time making this type of deal without severely overpaying at this point, with the added teams now in the mix.

 

Exactly. This is a scenario where if the Cubs really wanted someone like Webb or Garza, they should have done everything possible to complete the deal quickly.

 

I don't know why Hendry was fooling around, especially with Webb. He has to have medical records and input from doctors at this point. Either [expletive] or get off the pot. Now, if we do sign him, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more.

 

Well the reason I didn't blame Hendry for not moving quickly is because it's completely unknown whether the hesitation was on Henrdry's or on Webb's/the Rays' to let the market play out.

 

That and it is highly debateable if he should be going after either guy in the first place.

[rawaction]

I think that if the reports are true from Levine that we only have 3-5 mill left to play with, Hendry's hands could be tied until he unloads Fukudome/Gorzelanny or whoever else he may be trying to dump, in order to make a signing like Webb(who'l probably be guaranteed more than 5 mill assuming his doc is right anyway) or even a trade for Garza, who probably is going to be making 5-6 mill in arb.

 

Who says he has to get rid of the money BEFORE taking it on though? This is the same crap he did with Sosa and how the Cubs ended up w/ Jeromy Burnitz while legit RFs passed them by. I can't imagine if he only has 5Mil in room that he can't go over that ever between now and when the season starts.