Rangers Sign Brandon Webb (p. 10)

[UMFan83]

I dunno, if it was critical for the Cubs to get a starter that was likely to pitch in the rotation at a decently high level next year I might not pick Webb. He's got a big risk attached to him. But the reward is one of the best pitchers in the league. Hard to say no to that.

 

If he fails or is hurt again, oh well we have mediocre pitching and don't make the playoffs. Not like we were going to anyways.

[GTAG]

so long as the contract is not ridiculous count me in on getting Webb... if healthy he would be a top of rotation pitcher and the sinker fits in nicely at Wrigley.

[Balsa]

Man, you stop paying attention to the game for two years and the whole world turns upside down.

 

This guy used to be phenomenal. Now he's getting the Wade Miller treatment.

[UK1679666180]

I'd rather see Bonderman or Penny at this point over Webb if they're used car shopping. Webb has a substantial past workload, wrong side of 30, borderline velo before injury, below avg secondary pitches. Obviously his sinker was prob the second best single pitch in MLB until he got injured but there are better risk/reward guys avail.

 

I'm not a fan of Bonderman at all and don't see the upside with him, to be honest. Penny would be my choice if we lose out on Webb though. That said, I actually think he's older than Webb, for what it's worth.

With Bonderman, his issue last year was mechanical more than health. It was a rehab year coming off the blood clot. With Penny, he maintained velo, production, and stuff despite the weird injury. Webb scares me with the velo. He's not going to survive in the mid 80s.

[davell]

We met with his agent last night and have another meeting scheduled for later today as well. I would be all for this, but if it means Cashner doesn't get a chance to start, then I guess I have to hope against it......

[Post Count Padder]

We met with his agent last night and have another meeting scheduled for later today as well. I would be all for this, but if it means Cashner doesn't get a chance to start, then I guess I have to hope against it......

I'm getting the feeling that it doesn't matter at this point. The club has (stupidly) decided that Cashner can best serve the team next season strictly out of the pen.

[jersey cubs fan]

The weird thing about keeping Cashner in the pen is he wasn't even any good there last year. If a guy is great in relief it's tough to make the move even if you know it's better (let alone if you're obsessed with relievers and overvalue them in general).

[KingCubsFan]

The weird thing about keeping Cashner in the pen is he wasn't even any good there last year. If a guy is great in relief it's tough to make the move even if you know it's better (let alone if you're obsessed with relievers and overvalue them in general).

Unfortunately, he did well during our little winning streak in September, which Hendry appears to be basing this entire offseason on.

[davell]

I want Cashner to have every opportunity to win a spot in the rotation. But, I don't think he was that bad out of the pen last year. If you take out his hideous 2 game stretch of July 27th and 30th, his stats look a whole lot more respectable. Those 2 games, he pitched 1.1 innings combined, gave up 8 hits, 12 earned runs and walked 2. His ERA and WHIP for the year were 4.80 and 1.56 respectively. Take those 2 outings away and it's 2.88 and 1.41. I totally understand that there are more meaningful stats than ERA and WHIP(FIP for one, his was 5.03 for the year, but would take a huge dip, I'm assuming anyway, if you take out that 2 game blip) but I don't know how to translate them, minus those 2 outings, to see how he looked.

 

Like I said, I want him in the rotation, but I think he was pretty solid out of the pen, minus those 2 games.

[jersey cubs fan]

I want Cashner to have every opportunity to win a spot in the rotation. But, I don't think he was that bad out of the pen last year. If you take out his hideous 2 game stretch of July 27th and 30th, his stats look a whole lot more respectable. Those 2 games, he pitched 1.1 innings combined, gave up 8 hits, 12 earned runs and walked 2. His ERA and WHIP for the year were 4.80 and 1.56 respectively. Take those 2 outings away and it's 2.88 and 1.41. I totally understand that there are more meaningful stats than ERA and WHIP(FIP for one, his was 5.03 for the year, but would take a huge dip, I'm assuming anyway, if you take out that 2 game blip) but I don't know how to translate them, minus those 2 outings, to see how he looked.

 

Like I said, I want him in the rotation, but I think he was pretty solid out of the pen, minus those 2 games.

 

But he pitched in those games and was pretty bad out of the bullpen last year. He walked 30 people in 54 innings. And he didn't match that up with some ungodly K/9 either.

[davell]

I want Cashner to have every opportunity to win a spot in the rotation. But, I don't think he was that bad out of the pen last year. If you take out his hideous 2 game stretch of July 27th and 30th, his stats look a whole lot more respectable. Those 2 games, he pitched 1.1 innings combined, gave up 8 hits, 12 earned runs and walked 2. His ERA and WHIP for the year were 4.80 and 1.56 respectively. Take those 2 outings away and it's 2.88 and 1.41. I totally understand that there are more meaningful stats than ERA and WHIP(FIP for one, his was 5.03 for the year, but would take a huge dip, I'm assuming anyway, if you take out that 2 game blip) but I don't know how to translate them, minus those 2 outings, to see how he looked.

 

Like I said, I want him in the rotation, but I think he was pretty solid out of the pen, minus those 2 games.

 

But he pitched in those games and was pretty bad out of the bullpen last year. He walked 30 people in 54 innings. And he didn't match that up with some ungodly K/9 either.

 

The walk rate's going to need to come down if he IS moved to the rotation for sure. He's probably going to have to trust something other than his FB if his K rate is going to go up some as well(he has a decent changeup, but evidently doesn't use it very often, right?). But the reason I brought up those 2 games is I'd much rather have him be pathetic for 2 games than to have had those 12 runs sprinkled over the rest of his appearances. Basically, I think he pitched pretty well for the majority of his appearances.

[Neuby]

Assuming Tom G is on his way out and we sign Webb.

 

 

Z

Dempster

Webb

Silva

Cashner/Shark/Archer/Coleman/Diamond/

 

Does Hendry have enough depth to trade Wells in a package with Fukodome somewhere to help net more salary relief?

[Cubswin11]

I know people have been saying that Webb has only been clocked in the mid-high 80's so far. My question is, when Webb was healthy and effective wasn't his max velo only in the 92-93 MPH range? He was never a guy I remember sitting in the mid-high 90s, could be wrong. So if he is already touching high 80's in the winter it's quite possible he gets back to the low 90's that he's always been at by ST/start of the season. I remember him as a guy with an average, velo wise, FB that he could spot with a good curve/slide, plus plus sinker, and a good change/split.

[MWV]

I know people have been saying that Webb has only been clocked in the mid-high 80's so far. My question is, when Webb was healthy and effective wasn't his max velo only in the 92-93 MPH range? He was never a guy I remember sitting in the mid-high 90s, could be wrong. So if he is already touching high 80's in the winter it's quite possible he gets back to the low 90's that he's always been at by ST/start of the season. I remember him as a guy with an average, velo wise, FB that he could spot with a good curve/slide, plus plus sinker, and a good change/split.

Fangraphs PitchFx Data has his fastball at 89.0 in 2007 (34 starts), 88.2 in 2008 (34 starts) and 87.6 in 2009 (a 1 start sample).

[Cubswin11]

I know people have been saying that Webb has only been clocked in the mid-high 80's so far. My question is, when Webb was healthy and effective wasn't his max velo only in the 92-93 MPH range? He was never a guy I remember sitting in the mid-high 90s, could be wrong. So if he is already touching high 80's in the winter it's quite possible he gets back to the low 90's that he's always been at by ST/start of the season. I remember him as a guy with an average, velo wise, FB that he could spot with a good curve/slide, plus plus sinker, and a good change/split.

Fangraphs PitchFx Data has his fastball at 89.0 in 2007 (34 starts), 88.2 in 2008 (34 starts) and 87.6 in 2009 (a 1 start sample).

So basically what I said, even a little less. So it's not a big problem right now if he is only hitting 85-86 on the gun in early winter. I am getting warmer on the idea of signing him, assuming it's not a crazy deal....

[UMFan83]

Given what we know, what's the highest you would go on years and dollars for Webb? I think we have to get Webb. It would be such a steal if he can get healthy. How much would Webb have gone for if he was a FA 2 offseasons ago? A lot more.

[Cubswin11]

Given what we know, what's the highest you would go on years and dollars for Webb? I think we have to get Webb. It would be such a steal if he can get healthy. How much would Webb have gone for if he was a FA 2 offseasons ago? A lot more.

I think I would give him a base deal guaranteeing 1 year for around $7m with incentives (IP, K, GS, ETC.) possibly making the deal worth something in the $15m range if they are all reached. With some sort of second year option (whether vesting based on incentives reached, or a club/mutual option).

[David]

Brandon Webb: Webb's arm surgeron signs off on health

 

Brandon Webb - S - ARZ - Dec. 7 - 6:11 pm et Brandon Webb's arm surgeron is at winter meetings assuring teams that Webb will perform "at a high level" this coming season.

Interesting tactic by Webb and his agent and it's probably money well spent. The right-handed Webb hasn't thrown a pitch since the first week of the 2009 season because of chronic shoulder issues, but he has had enough past success to find a one-year deal packed with incentives. Clubs are rightly viewing him as a low-risk, high-reward free agent option and it'll be interesting to see what kind of deal his agent secures. Dec. 7 - 6:11 pm et

Source: Jack Magruder on Twitter

[jersey cubs fan]

Given what we know, what's the highest you would go on years and dollars for Webb? I think we have to get Webb. It would be such a steal if he can get healthy. How much would Webb have gone for if he was a FA 2 offseasons ago? A lot more.

 

I don't see how anybody can think they have to get Webb. He's not very likely to be great, and the Cubs have plenty of decent pitching already.

[UMFan83]

Yeah but you aren't signing him for pitching depth to fit in as a 3 or 4 starter. You are signing him to be an ace. We don't have an ace quality pitcher on the staff (Z sometimes), and we don't really have a top of the line hitter either. We have a lot of good players. This is an opportunity to buy low on a great pitcher (with risk). Normally he'd probably get 12+ mil if healthy on the open market. In this case we might be able to get him for half of that and for only a 1 or 2 year deal instead of 6/80.

 

I can see your point of view too, I understand the opportunity cost of using a chunk of our very limited budget on the side of the roster we are stronger in.

[SouthSideRyan]

Webb would get a hell of a lot more than 12M as a healthy pitcher on the open market. But he hasn't pitched in 2 years, 7M sounds really high.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yeah but you aren't signing him for pitching depth to fit in as a 3 or 4 starter. You are signing him to be an ace. We don't have an ace quality pitcher on the staff (Z sometimes), and we don't really have a top of the line hitter either. We have a lot of good players. This is an opportunity to buy low on a great pitcher (with risk). Normally he'd probably get 12+ mil if healthy on the open market. In this case we might be able to get him for half of that and for only a 1 or 2 year deal instead of 6/80.

 

I can see your point of view too, I understand the opportunity cost of using a chunk of our very limited budget on the side of the roster we are stronger in.

 

And for a guy who might not be better than other players on the roster.

[Clem Fandango]

If Brandon Webb never got hurt and continued pitching at the level he was at prior to the injuries, he'd be making whatever Cliff Lee's contract is going to be look like a bargain. If we can get him for $7 million it would be a big risk, but it would also be a monumental pay off if he returns to form

 

EDIT: fwiw, Webb's WAR before the injuries...

 

2008: 6.0

2007: 6.9

2006: 7.0

2005: 5.3

2004: 3.1

2003: 4.8

 

Using FanGraph's Salary/Dollars stat, just for fun, he has made a total of $13.6 million while providing a performance valued at $121.5 million. I'd be more inclined to take a risk on someone like him

[UMFan83]

Yeah but you aren't signing him for pitching depth to fit in as a 3 or 4 starter. You are signing him to be an ace. We don't have an ace quality pitcher on the staff (Z sometimes), and we don't really have a top of the line hitter either. We have a lot of good players. This is an opportunity to buy low on a great pitcher (with risk). Normally he'd probably get 12+ mil if healthy on the open market. In this case we might be able to get him for half of that and for only a 1 or 2 year deal instead of 6/80.

 

I can see your point of view too, I understand the opportunity cost of using a chunk of our very limited budget on the side of the roster we are stronger in.

 

And for a guy who might not be better than other players on the roster.

 

But has a realistic upside that is much better than every other pitcher on the roster. You have to take some risks.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Maybe Rothschild can make him an ace again.

 

Losing Larry really makes me sad, and I don't know why.