NCAA Conference Realignment

[tadowdaddy]

PBC is saying that the Big Ten believes that neither Texas nor A&M are out of play yet and that this isn't over.

big surprise.

 

It's over, at least for now. A few years from now, maybe it rears it's head again, but for now, it's a done deal.

[da bears]

have fun with nebraska fans, iowa. boy theyre a real treat to have around, especially when you beat them in football.

 

penn state beat nebraska 40-7, and i thought their fans were wonderful. they seemed really good-natured and friendly, and after the ass-whipping they said they hoped we'd come out to lincoln for the rematch in 2003.

just a little different when you play them year in and year out and challenge their supremecy. they are an interesting bunch.

[Tracer Bullet]

 

How is the deck stacked in ND's favor? What on earth are you talking about? ND has to be voted on, in part, by coaches, none of whom have any incentive to see ND's stock rise (counter those coaches that frequently vote their own conference teams 10 or more slots higher than other coaches).

 

The trend since when has been decisively negative? Since the early 90s when Lou left? Or since the 2000s? b/c the Weis era was significantly better than either the Davie or the Willingham era and I've yet to find an ND fan that hasn't been excited by the things Kelly's done (both before he got to ND and in the few months since).

 

I have no idea how you can spin a BCS loss into a worse end to a season than winning the Emerald Bowl.

 

I don't know why you keep bringing up the Emerald Bowl as if I mentioned it or it has any relevance here or would even submit that it's better than losing in a BCS game.

 

The Weis era was not significantly better than his predecessors. That is a total fiction. Worse overall record than either Davie OR Willingham, 1 bowl win over Hawaii, coached probably the worst team in school history, ended the Navy win streak, and the biggest "win" under his tenure was a loss.

 

At least Davie and Willingham had the temerity to beat a ranked opponent here and there.

 

Anyway, I would argue that ND getting blown out in BCS games (hell, bowl games in general) is a part of why they're being pursued here. ND's fall from the absolute top was probably inevitable but nothing's been done to slow the decline. Hiring Kelly was a good first start. They've gone from bulletproof to looking seriously at joining a conference. If they'd been the ND of old, or something even approaching it, they'd be calling their own shots.

 

Do you think if you just continue making things up, it will come true? I'm trying to find some nugget of truth in your blabbering on. Must be a trick you learned from Poodle. Next thing we know, you'll sneak out of town just before [expletive] hits the fan.

 

What part of saying that Weis won one bowl game against Hawaii, had a worse record than Davie and Willingham, ended the win streak against Navy, and coached the worst team in Notre Dame history constitutes making things up?

 

The Weis era was better for ND than either Davie or Willingham's. Weis beat ranked opponents, took ND to 2 straight BCS bowls and won their first bowl game in over a decade. But more importantly, he put the program in a much better position to succeed long term, undoing years of damage wrought by his predecessors. If you can't grasp that, you're just burying your head in the sand or you don't understand the most basic elements of CFB.

 

Oh, and the calling their own shots things is funny. ND really caved under pressure. You have no idea how seriously they looked at joining a conference. You know absolutely nothing. Doesn't stop you from spouting off about it. Poodle would be proud.

[Tracer Bullet]

have fun with nebraska fans, iowa. boy theyre a real treat to have around, especially when you beat them in football.

 

penn state beat nebraska 40-7, and i thought their fans were wonderful. they seemed really good-natured and friendly, and after the ass-whipping they said they hoped we'd come out to lincoln for the rematch in 2003.

just a little different when you play them year in and year out and challenge their supremecy. they are an interesting bunch.

 

agreed. growing up in NC Iowa, there were a fair number of Nebraska fans. Ugh.

[Outshined_One]

I'm looking forward to getting into obnoxious arguments with Nebraska fans over which team has a better claim to the color red.

[SpongeWorthy]

 

How is the deck stacked in ND's favor? What on earth are you talking about? ND has to be voted on, in part, by coaches, none of whom have any incentive to see ND's stock rise (counter those coaches that frequently vote their own conference teams 10 or more slots higher than other coaches).

 

The trend since when has been decisively negative? Since the early 90s when Lou left? Or since the 2000s? b/c the Weis era was significantly better than either the Davie or the Willingham era and I've yet to find an ND fan that hasn't been excited by the things Kelly's done (both before he got to ND and in the few months since).

 

I have no idea how you can spin a BCS loss into a worse end to a season than winning the Emerald Bowl.

 

I don't know why you keep bringing up the Emerald Bowl as if I mentioned it or it has any relevance here or would even submit that it's better than losing in a BCS game.

 

The Weis era was not significantly better than his predecessors. That is a total fiction. Worse overall record than either Davie OR Willingham, 1 bowl win over Hawaii, coached probably the worst team in school history, ended the Navy win streak, and the biggest "win" under his tenure was a loss.

 

At least Davie and Willingham had the temerity to beat a ranked opponent here and there.

 

Anyway, I would argue that ND getting blown out in BCS games (hell, bowl games in general) is a part of why they're being pursued here. ND's fall from the absolute top was probably inevitable but nothing's been done to slow the decline. Hiring Kelly was a good first start. They've gone from bulletproof to looking seriously at joining a conference. If they'd been the ND of old, or something even approaching it, they'd be calling their own shots.

 

Do you think if you just continue making things up, it will come true? I'm trying to find some nugget of truth in your blabbering on. Must be a trick you learned from Poodle. Next thing we know, you'll sneak out of town just before [expletive] hits the fan.

 

What part of saying that Weis won one bowl game against Hawaii, had a worse record than Davie and Willingham, ended the win streak against Navy, and coached the worst team in Notre Dame history constitutes making things up?

 

The Weis era was better for ND than either Davie or Willingham's. Weis beat ranked opponents, took ND to 2 straight BCS bowls and won their first bowl game in over a decade. But more importantly, he put the program in a much better position to succeed long term, undoing years of damage wrought by his predecessors. If you can't grasp that, you're just burying your head in the sand or you don't understand the most basic elements of CFB.

 

Oh, and the calling their own shots things is funny. ND really caved under pressure. You have no idea how seriously they looked at joining a conference. You know absolutely nothing. Doesn't stop you from spouting off about it. Poodle would be proud.

 

You said significantly better. There is nothing that happened on the football field that was significantly better about his era than Davie's or Willingham's.

 

And I would submit that Weis did nothing to help the program maintain a position of strength in trying to be independent. I THINK he probably did quite a bit of harm if the goal is to keep ND independent long term. But you can continue to get bent out of shape over my completely innocuous opinions.

[Tracer Bullet]

You said significantly better. There is nothing that happened on the football field that was significantly better about his era than Davie's or Willingham's.

 

of course there was

 

And I would submit that Weis did nothing to help the program maintain a position of strength in trying to be independent. I THINK he probably did quite a bit of harm if the goal is to keep ND independent long term. But you can continue to get bent out of shape over my completely innocuous opinions.

 

You can submit whatever you like, but you apparently have no idea what you're talking about. "trying" to be independent? it's pathetic.

[SpongeWorthy]

You said significantly better. There is nothing that happened on the football field that was significantly better about his era than Davie's or Willingham's.

 

of course there was

 

And I would submit that Weis did nothing to help the program maintain a position of strength in trying to be independent. I THINK he probably did quite a bit of harm if the goal is to keep ND independent long term. But you can continue to get bent out of shape over my completely innocuous opinions.

 

You can submit whatever you like, but you apparently have no idea what you're talking about. "trying" to be independent? it's pathetic.

 

What were these significantly better achievements that occurred under Weis? I'm sure you'll point to the unwarranted BCS berths which I suppose plays. I'd say those are at least canceled out by the 2007 season, losing to Navy, the lack of a signature win, and the fact that he had a worse win percentage.

 

In my mind the absolute apex of ND football in the 2000s was probably the win over FSU in 02, though.

 

And I meant trying to maintain its independence. Sorry for the lack of clarity. I'm guessing if Weis' record had matched the bluster ND would be independent as long as it wanted to. And I'm not privy to any negotiations but if being independent is a priority then I would say having a strong product on the field is better than having a bad one.

[Andy]

I love how we still call them 'unwarranted' BCS bids. The 2005 bid was an auto-bid because they were in the top 6. The 2006 bid was because the only other eligible at-large selection was West [expletive] Virginia. Just because they got smoked in 06 doesn't mean they didn't deserve to be there by the parameters set by the BCS for regular-season play.

 

And GR is probably talking about the caliber of talent that Weis got to ND (which he couldn't coach, which is why he isn't there anymore, but he got the talent there). Because of his recruiting, Brian Kelly is in a position to win immediately and build a strong team for the future, a luxury that neither of his two predecessors were presented with.

 

I don't know how any of this plays into the strength of ND's independence, to be honest, so I'll stay out of that.

[Andy]

The deck-stacking debate continues to be hilarious, by the way. Notre Dame absolutely HAS to win ten games to get a BCS bid (no 9-3 ND team is ever going to be allowed by the pollsters to be eligible for a BCS game unless the 3 losses come under extremely extenuating circumstances). Meanwhile, ACC teams who win 8 or 9 games go to the Orange Bowl every year and no one bats an eye.

[Andy]

The worst thing about staying in the Big 12 are all of them lame "well, I guess Mizzou did end up in the Big Ten!" jokes.

I love this joke.

[SpongeWorthy]

I love how we still call them 'unwarranted' BCS bids. The 2005 bid was an auto-bid because they were in the top 6. The 2006 bid was because the only other eligible at-large selection was West [expletive] Virginia. Just because they got smoked in 06 doesn't mean they didn't deserve to be there by the parameters set by the BCS for regular-season play.

 

And GR is probably talking about the caliber of talent that Weis got to ND (which he couldn't coach, which is why he isn't there anymore, but he got the talent there). Because of his recruiting, Brian Kelly is in a position to win immediately and build a strong team for the future, a luxury that neither of his two predecessors were presented with.

 

I don't know how any of this plays into the strength of ND's independence, to be honest, so I'll stay out of that.

 

2005 and 2006 were products of Weis-hype, getting a lot of mileage out of the USC game, and then being way over ranked to start the next season (preseason #2 IIRC). I'm not really talking about BCS exemptions or whatever.

 

I would be surprised if there are any teams that have appeared in multiple BCS games that have won fewer games against good teams than those two Irish teams.

[imb]

as usual, spongeworthy is right on about ND and has a better grasp of the team than its own fans do.

[SpongeWorthy]

I'm actually kind of a closet ND fan. They were on the Cubs-Bulls-Bears axis before I went to college. If the idea weren't so abhorrent to most people's sensitivities I'd probably root for them pretty hard in the next few years now that SC has been torpedoed.

 

And if I'm being honest with myself, I was probably more of an ND fan than a Bears fan since the Bears were so nondescript in the Wanny/Jauron years while ND was always on TV.

[Formerly Snayke]

getting rid of iowa st and kansas st would have been getting rid of dead weight... they lost one of their largest media markets and their third or fourth most prestigious football program.

 

Ehh. Nebraska hasn't been that important to college football in awhile.

 

their $49M football profit last year (4th among all programs) would argue otherwise. they aren't great any more, but much like notre dame, they're still a big deal.

 

From a business perspective, yeah, I suppose it hurts. But I don't benefit from whatever Missouri would gain by playing Nebraska, so I don't care.

[CubInOK]

I really wish OU would join another conference now.

[SpongeWorthy]

Without Texas?

 

I mean I think it's really dumb the Pac 10 is now the Pac 11. If you're not going for the conference championship game at least have a round robin. 11 is a dumb number to settle on.

[CubInOK]

I don't really care if Texas comes with OU or not. I think OU can get more TV money elsewhere even if someone gives OU a larger chunk of a TV deal that involved the Dead 12.

[SpongeWorthy]

Yeah but what about the rivalry?

[CubInOK]

Yeah but what about the rivalry?

Before the Big XII Oklahoma and Texas were in different conferences. It can still work.

[Foulacy]

Yeah, OU in the Big 10 isn't the best for them, even though it's what OU wanted all along *sigh*

[Andy]

as usual, spongeworthy is right on about ND and has a better grasp of the team than its own fans do.

Just because he agrees with you doesn't make him right.

[Andy]

I love how we still call them 'unwarranted' BCS bids. The 2005 bid was an auto-bid because they were in the top 6. The 2006 bid was because the only other eligible at-large selection was West [expletive] Virginia. Just because they got smoked in 06 doesn't mean they didn't deserve to be there by the parameters set by the BCS for regular-season play.

 

And GR is probably talking about the caliber of talent that Weis got to ND (which he couldn't coach, which is why he isn't there anymore, but he got the talent there). Because of his recruiting, Brian Kelly is in a position to win immediately and build a strong team for the future, a luxury that neither of his two predecessors were presented with.

 

I don't know how any of this plays into the strength of ND's independence, to be honest, so I'll stay out of that.

 

2005 and 2006 were products of Weis-hype, getting a lot of mileage out of the USC game, and then being way over ranked to start the next season (preseason #2 IIRC). I'm not really talking about BCS exemptions or whatever.

 

I would be surprised if there are any teams that have appeared in multiple BCS games that have won fewer games against good teams than those two Irish teams.

That's an extremely long-winded barometer which I suppose is correct if only because there are a handful of cases of teams going to two straight BCS games (if we're only looking at the BCS era since 1998).

 

And it's not Notre Dame's fault the media decided that Quinn, Samardzija and Zbikowski were the only three ingredients needed to win a national title. They surely did their part during the season by dropping ND after wins twice that season, including once after a win over a good Georgia Tech team on the road while everyone else was playing cupcakes.

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand though, so there's no reason to clog the thread with it.

[snoodmonger]

T Boone Pickens hates Mizzou, too.

 

Video here

[Tracer Bullet]

You said significantly better. There is nothing that happened on the football field that was significantly better about his era than Davie's or Willingham's.

 

of course there was

 

And I would submit that Weis did nothing to help the program maintain a position of strength in trying to be independent. I THINK he probably did quite a bit of harm if the goal is to keep ND independent long term. But you can continue to get bent out of shape over my completely innocuous opinions.

 

You can submit whatever you like, but you apparently have no idea what you're talking about. "trying" to be independent? it's pathetic.

 

What were these significantly better achievements that occurred under Weis? I'm sure you'll point to the unwarranted BCS berths which I suppose plays. I'd say those are at least canceled out by the 2007 season, losing to Navy, the lack of a signature win, and the fact that he had a worse win percentage.

 

In my mind the absolute apex of ND football in the 2000s was probably the win over FSU in 02, though.

 

And I meant trying to maintain its independence. Sorry for the lack of clarity. I'm guessing if Weis' record had matched the bluster ND would be independent as long as it wanted to. And I'm not privy to any negotiations but if being independent is a priority then I would say having a strong product on the field is better than having a bad one.

 

I didn't say anything about achievements. But Davie and Willingham didn't achieve [expletive] on the field, so that bar is pretty low. But Willingham left the team with a death-penalty number of scholarship players. You'll have some sense of what that feels like if a couple of juniors and seniors jump ship in addition to your scholarship penalties. But try to compound that with having a coach that only recruited 10 OL in 4 years (and to a program that wasn't coming off several years of success gained by cheating).

 

Weis was able to recruit incredibly well, esp given the job he took in 2004. Every coach on the planet saw the roster and how few scholarship players (and esp lineman) would be there in 2007 said "um thanks, but no thanks." Compare that with 2009 when dozens of coaches inquired about the job when Weis was fired and 2 of the most successful coaches currently in CFB strongly considered leaving their programs for it. I have no idea if BK will be the college coach that Weis wasn't, but he's got a much better program.

 

ND is independent and will remain so for the foreseeable future. But, they could join a BCS conference in seconds just by picking up the phone and saying they're interested. How is that "trying" again?