NCAA Conference Realignment

[Soul]

I think that's a good question about the Texas legislature, and I don't know the answer.

[Guest]

I'm just not so sure that Texas is better off with more revenue(for the next few years at least, if not further out) than having a conference that bends to their every whim.

[shnsajax]

I think that's a good question about the Texas legislature, and I don't know the answer.

 

I honestly don't remember when it happened, but from what I have read they had a huge play on who got in to the Big 12 conference. I am becoming more interested in this with everything I read. Texas athletics already does great financially, but this is too much not to at least take a long hard look at. I do think the UT Athletic Director has the balls to make this move and sever some long relationships.

[SouthSideRyan]

Shns, what kind of power does the Texas baseball program have within the Atheltic Department?

 

I can't imagine the defending champs are thrilled with the prospect of winning all their conference games by 25.

[TruffleShuffle]

I guess I am also underestimating the Big 10's clout here. It seems almost.....audacious....to me that they would think they could pluck Texas. But that's not really what I'm hearing now.

 

it's not all that surprising. the population of the states that comprise the big 10 is 67 million; the big xii states' population is 46.4 million and more than half of that is texas. the big ten has its own tv network, much better academics, much more tradition and more prestigious programs.

 

i guess what it comes down to for texas - do you want to remain a gigantic fish in a relatively small pond close to home, or be a big fish in a big pond that's farther away? yes, texas has it good with its current big xii agreement, but the tables would have to be tilted completely in their direction to get tv revenue that rivals that of the big ten.

[SouthSideRyan]

As much as I complain about the Big Ten Network, what a incredible success that network has been. Jim Delaney should be knighted.

[shnsajax]

Shns, what kind of power does the Texas baseball program have within the Atheltic Department?

 

I can't imagine the defending champs are thrilled with the prospect of winning all their conference games by 25.

 

Overall they have a lot, but compared to the football program they have very little. However baseball has a sweetspot being the most dominate sport at the university. The AD does seem to take all of the programs very seriously from tennis to volleyball to swimming/diving. They won't make the move just for the better good of the football program. I would love to see this move force the school to adopt a Men's Soccer program since Title IX killed that in Texas as a whole.

[jersey cubs fan]

I guess I am also underestimating the Big 10's clout here. It seems almost.....audacious....to me that they would think they could pluck Texas. But that's not really what I'm hearing now.

 

it's not all that surprising. the population of the states that comprise the big 10 is 67 million; the big xii states' population is 46.4 million and more than half of that is texas. the big ten has its own tv network, much better academics, much more tradition and more prestigious programs.

 

And they have a huge presence in the NY metropolitan area. I honestly think it rivals the Big East interest overall (dominates in football, takes a backseat in basketball but is still a presence).

[TruffleShuffle]

to further illustrate the yawning academic gap between texas and the rest of the conference, here are the endowments of the big xii schools:

 

* Baylor - $1 billion [8]

* Colorado - $870 million [8]

* Iowa State - $569 million [8]

* Kansas - $1.2 billion [8]

* Kansas State - $346 million [8]

* Missouri - $1 billion [8]

* Nebraska - $1.2 billion [8]

* Oklahoma - $1.1 billion [8]

* Oklahoma State - $617 million [8]

* Texas - $16.1 billion [8]

* Texas A&M - $6.6 billion [8]

* Texas Tech - $792 million [8]

 

now here are the endowments of the big ten schools:

 

* Michigan - $7.1 billion [6]

* Northwestern - $6.5 billion [6]

* Minnesota - $2.8 billion [6]

* Ohio State - $2.3 billion [6]

* Purdue - $1.8 billion [6]

* Penn State - $1.6 billion [6]

* Wisconsin - $1.6 billion [6]

* Indiana - $1.6 billion [6]

* Illinois - $1.5 billion [6]

* Michigan State - $1.2 billion [6]

* Iowa - $1.0 billion[6]

 

plus university of chicago is part of the research/resource-sharing program, so you can add in their $5.0B endowment. aside from aTm, none of the schools in the big xii are in the same ballpark as texas as far as academics or research impact.

[TruffleShuffle]

Shns, what kind of power does the Texas baseball program have within the Atheltic Department?

 

I can't imagine the defending champs are thrilled with the prospect of winning all their conference games by 25.

 

Overall they have a lot, but compared to the football program they have very little. However baseball has a sweetspot being the most dominate sport at the university. The AD does seem to take all of the programs very seriously from tennis to volleyball to swimming/diving. They won't make the move just for the better good of the football program. I would love to see this move force the school to adopt a Men's Soccer program since Title IX killed that in Texas as a whole.

 

yeah the idea of texas as a worthy opponent in women's volleyball is very cool to me. plus i would love to go to austin to see penn state football. texas seems like a school with big aspirations - as evidenced by their academic and athletic standing. there are too many schools in the big xii that just seem happy to exist.

[jame.gumb]

I read an insider article earlier today by a writer who speculated that Texas might join the Big 10 in academics and football only. I don't know how plausible that is, but that would allow the football and baseball (which I consider to be the only real roadblock to such a move) teams to compete in the best conference for their sport.

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't believe the Big Ten would go for that. I want to say that was rumored about Notre Dame for awhile, and the Big Ten made it known they wouldn't share a school with another conference.

[shnsajax]

I read an insider article earlier today by a writer who speculated that Texas might join the Big 10 in academics and football only. I don't know how plausible that is, but that would allow the football and baseball (which I consider to be the only real roadblock to such a move) teams to compete in the best conference for their sport.

 

Even if they moved baseball they could still schedule many out of conference games in Texas against all of the regular Big XII opponents. If the Big XII falls apart where does that leave the rest of the athletic department. Personally I would want everyone to go if such a move were to happen.

 

I also think it would help the football program from a recruiting standpoint and out-of-state enrollments to be in the Big 10.

[fromthestretch]

I don't believe the Big Ten would go for that. I want to say that was rumored about Notre Dame for awhile, and the Big Ten made it known they wouldn't share a school with another conference.

 

It was, as Notre Dame seemed ready to join the Big Ten in everything BUT football. That was pretty much when the conference stated it was all or nothing.

[jame.gumb]

I read an insider article earlier today by a writer who speculated that Texas might join the Big 10 in academics and football only. I don't know how plausible that is, but that would allow the football and baseball (which I consider to be the only real roadblock to such a move) teams to compete in the best conference for their sport.

 

Even if they moved baseball they could still schedule many out of conference games in Texas against all of the regular Big XII opponents. If the Big XII falls apart where does that leave the rest of the athletic department. Personally I would want everyone to go if such a move were to happen.

 

I also think it would help the football program from a recruiting standpoint and out-of-state enrollments to be in the Big 10.

 

I agree with all of that. I don't know how the Pac 10 compares to the Big 10 academically, but they'd be a better fit for Texas athletically. And, iirc, Texas asked to join the Pac 10, then the Big 10 before joining the Big 12.

 

I know it's crazy, but I'd like to see a new SWC with Texas, OU, A&M, Arizona, Arizona St., USC, UCLA, TCU and a few spares.

[TruffleShuffle]

I agree with all of that. I don't know how the Pac 10 compares to the Big 10 academically

 

the pac 10 has a number of good schools academically - stanford being the best by a pretty large margin, and a better school than any of the big 10 schools - but they also have a few schools (the arizonas and oregons, probably washington st too) that would be the worst academic school in the big 10.

 

but they'd be a better fit for Texas athletically.

 

this may be true because of baseball, volleyball and swimming. the big ten has pretty high level non-revenue sports though.

 

And, iirc, Texas asked to join the Pac 10, then the Big 10 before joining the Big 12.

 

this is true.

 

I know it's crazy, but I'd like to see a new SWC with Texas, OU, A&M, Arizona, Arizona St., USC, UCLA, TCU and a few spares.

 

this wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for texas, because they've still got the academics problem. arizona, arizona st and tcu have lousy academics. texas is a much better fit with schools like cal and stanford for academics and good non-revenue athletics.

[jame.gumb]

the pac 10 has a number of good schools academically - stanford being the best by a pretty large margin, and a better school than any of the big 10 schools - but they also have a few schools (the arizonas and oregons, probably washington st too) that would be the worst academic school in the big 10.

 

I know it's crazy, but I'd like to see a new SWC with Texas, OU, A&M, Arizona, Arizona St., USC, UCLA, TCU and a few spares.

 

this wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for texas, because they've still got the academics problem. arizona, arizona st and tcu have lousy academics. texas is a much better fit with schools like cal and stanford for academics and good non-revenue athletics.

 

I know Stanford and Cal are excellent schools, but I'm not sure how the conference as a whole compares to the Big 10 as a whole. It has to be better than the Big 12, though.

 

TCU actually has decent academics (at least I thought they did). The SWC I was thinking of would likely be better academically, but I was thinking more along the lines of a big athletic conference to rival the SEC.

 

The bottom line is that money is what would make Texas move. They'll make a ton going to the Big 10 and they'll make it quickly.

[Soul]

If I'm the Big 12, I fight for my life here. Kind of like Mesa fighting for the Cubs.

 

Here, put whatever number you want on the check. Don't leave us!

[da bears]

If I'm the Big 12, I fight for my life here. Kind of like Mesa fighting for the Cubs.

 

Here, put whatever number you want on the check. Don't leave us!

dan bebee is a pretty big moron though. although maybe this talk of texas leaving will finally get his attention that something needs to be done within the conference. of course, it could just make the pandering to whatever texas wants even worse.

[illiniguy]

If I'm the Big 12, I fight for my life here. Kind of like Mesa fighting for the Cubs.

 

Here, put whatever number you want on the check. Don't leave us!

dan bebee is a pretty big moron though. although maybe this talk of texas leaving will finally get his attention that something needs to be done within the conference. of course, it could just make the pandering to whatever texas wants even worse.

The Big 12 is in trouble. I love how everyone thinks they do whatever Texas wants, the way I see it they protect KU basketball more than anything else. The schedule the past 15 years make s the South beat the crap out of each other while KU breezed through the crap North. Luckily the North schools have made good hires recently.

[jame.gumb]

If I'm the Big 12, I fight for my life here. Kind of like Mesa fighting for the Cubs.

 

Here, put whatever number you want on the check. Don't leave us!

 

You know, I was a student there in the mid-90s and I can't believe how much that school has grown. They've always been a reputable school academically (especially the business school) and the football and baseball teams have a rich history, but it's only in the last decade that they've reached elite status as a school.

 

This isn't really relevant to the topic, but I didn't really notice this until all the Texas --> Big 10 talk.

[da bears]

If I'm the Big 12, I fight for my life here. Kind of like Mesa fighting for the Cubs.

 

Here, put whatever number you want on the check. Don't leave us!

dan bebee is a pretty big moron though. although maybe this talk of texas leaving will finally get his attention that something needs to be done within the conference. of course, it could just make the pandering to whatever texas wants even worse.

The Big 12 is in trouble. I love how everyone thinks they do whatever Texas wants, the way I see it they protect KU basketball more than anything else. The schedule the past 15 years make s the South beat the crap out of each other while KU breezed through the crap North. Luckily the North schools have made good hires recently.

thats true, although the north has been doing pretty well at the top the last couple of seasons, with ku, mizzou, and kstate playing well. and the big 12 is in HUGE trouble. itll be interesting to see if bebee is smart enough to do anything. i really dont know what the answer is other than the big 12 needs a strong leader who can somehow stabilize the entire conference., something bebee is not.

[illiniguy]

If I'm the Big 12, I fight for my life here. Kind of like Mesa fighting for the Cubs.

 

Here, put whatever number you want on the check. Don't leave us!

dan bebee is a pretty big moron though. although maybe this talk of texas leaving will finally get his attention that something needs to be done within the conference. of course, it could just make the pandering to whatever texas wants even worse.

The Big 12 is in trouble. I love how everyone thinks they do whatever Texas wants, the way I see it they protect KU basketball more than anything else. The schedule the past 15 years make s the South beat the crap out of each other while KU breezed through the crap North. Luckily the North schools have made good hires recently.

thats true, although the north has been doing pretty well at the top the last couple of seasons, with ku, mizzou, and kstate playing well. and the big 12 is in HUGE trouble. itll be interesting to see if bebee is smart enough to do anything. i really dont know what the answer is other than the big 12 needs a strong leader who can somehow stabilize the entire conference., something bebee is not.

Agreed you guys and KState have both really improved so this is less of an issue, but for a decade Texas OSU and OU all had really good teams get hammered because they beat each other up while KU ran through the North.

[shnsajax]

If I'm the Big 12, I fight for my life here. Kind of like Mesa fighting for the Cubs.

 

Here, put whatever number you want on the check. Don't leave us!

 

You know, I was a student there in the mid-90s and I can't believe how much that school has grown. They've always been a reputable school academically (especially the business school) and the football and baseball teams have a rich history, but it's only in the last decade that they've reached elite status as a school.

 

This isn't really relevant to the topic, but I didn't really notice this until all the Texas --> Big 10 talk.

 

I think if any real changes have happened its been mostly to the graduate programs or simply more recognition to what they already had. They have also always had one of the better engineering schools. On the grad level, their Law and Medicine is also very highly ranked.

[snoodmonger]

The Austin American Statesman seems to think the Texas to the Big 10 thing is a Big 10 pipedream.

 

I'll put this as succinctly as possible: Texas isn't joining the Big Ten. No way, no how. So put down your Ohio State pompoms and that JoePa pennant...I've been assured by higher-ups at Texas that this is nothing more than a wishlist on the Big Ten's part. As one school official said, "We're the good-looking girl at the dance." Another even higher up the food chain told me, "It ain't going to happen."

 

http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns/texas-headed-to-the-big-ten-not-likely-230052.html

 

 

As for the Big 12 protecting KU more than Texas, that doesn't make a lot of sense. The conference alignment is based on geography, not some sneaky attempt to put KU in the softest division possible. And the basketball tournament, which was always in KC, now rotates between three locations. (Which is fair, but it doesn't support KU getting preferential treatment.) There are a bunch of other points to support that the power is in the south (and Texas), not the least of which is the fact the conference office is in freaking Texas.

 

Besides, why would they protect KU hoops over Texas? I'm sure UT makes way more money for the conference.

Edited February 12, 2010 by snoodmonger