Hendry's regime

[CyHawk_Cub]

Because he consistently does less with more, despite having a top five NL payroll his entire tenure.

 

Omar Minaya laughs at this notion. He can't even get into the playoffs with a consistent top 5 payroll in all of the MLB and he has 3 of the ten or so best players in the majors.

 

As bad as Omar is, he has a .550 winning percentage compared to Hendry's .519.

 

I thought only post-season success matters?

[Arnold Layne]

Because he consistently does less with more, despite having a top five NL payroll his entire tenure.

 

Omar Minaya laughs at this notion. He can't even get into the playoffs with a consistent top 5 payroll in all of the MLB and he has 3 of the ten or so best players in the majors.

 

As bad as Omar is, he has a .550 winning percentage compared to Hendry's .519.

 

I thought only post-season success matters?

 

 

You are right, in the end that's the only thing that matters. Neither GM has succeeded in the post season.

[TruffleShuffle]

"You're making a fool out of yourself, stop talking until you learn the discussion"

 

"You're a moron"

 

So one of those is completely fine and the other is some bad offense? Interesting, especially considering mine was justified and yours wasn't, at all.

 

Not surprising that you're whining aobut it though. You're just trying to take the focus off of how hilarious your posts in this thread have been.

Not what I said, and you know it. If you refer back to page three you'll see that I said "making yourself look worse." Stop making things up. Again with the childlike retorts.

 

i strongly suggest you do what most people do and just put dexter on your foe list.

[17 Seconds]

"You're making a fool out of yourself, stop talking until you learn the discussion"

 

"You're a moron"

 

So one of those is completely fine and the other is some bad offense? Interesting, especially considering mine was justified and yours wasn't, at all.

 

Not surprising that you're whining aobut it though. You're just trying to take the focus off of how hilarious your posts in this thread have been.

Not what I said, and you know it. If you refer back to page three you'll see that I said "making yourself look worse." Stop making things up. Again with the childlike retorts.

 

i strongly suggest you do what most people do and just put dexter on your foe list.

 

if you have me on ignore and you can't even see my posts in this thread, then perhaps you shouldn't be commenting on the conversation. just sayin

[XZero771679666304]

"You're making a fool out of yourself, stop talking until you learn the discussion"

 

"You're a moron"

 

So one of those is completely fine and the other is some bad offense? Interesting, especially considering mine was justified and yours wasn't, at all.

 

Not surprising that you're whining aobut it though. You're just trying to take the focus off of how hilarious your posts in this thread have been.

Not what I said, and you know it. If you refer back to page three you'll see that I said "making yourself look worse." Stop making things up. Again with the childlike retorts.

 

i strongly suggest you do what most people do and just put dexter on your foe list.

 

if you have me on ignore and you can't even see my posts in this thread, then perhaps you shouldn't be commenting on the conversation. just sayin

 

He can see them if someone else quotes them, I think.

[17 Seconds]

sounds like he doesn't understand what has gone on in the thread.

[Hacking Out Machine]

The funny part is that Hendry's best attribute is arguably his ability to draft/run a farm system. If he was removed as GM, I'd let him replace Tim Wilken in a heartbeat.

 

Definitely.

 

Wasn't Jimbo the director of the farm system at one point? For a brief period when the Cubs system was ranked near the top? Yeah, let's get a new GM and let him do that again.

 

 

Not sure a farm system of nothing but starting pitching and .295 OBP athletic position players is the way to go again. Hendry's strength is starting pitching. I wouldn't let him touch any other aspect of drafting.

 

I think this is one of the better snippets in this thread. Hendry's(and now apparently Wilken's) love affair with "toolsy" types instead of guys who demonstrate an actual ability to have some sort of clue at the plate has always been the biggest detriment to the Cubs ability to develop useful position players.

 

As another poster has mentioned, it's forced them to the free agent market, and into some albatross contracts. Having said that, Hendry has started to show some evidence that he understands OBP and SLG are important as Bradley and Fukudome attest. (Now if they'd just perform as their previous numbers would suggest!!!). Drafting of guys like Tony Thomas in recent years indicated that as well.

 

Now if we could start seeing more of a tools/approach emphasis on position players early in the draft rather than just tools, that would be great.

[JeffH]

The funny part is that Hendry's best attribute is arguably his ability to draft/run a farm system. If he was removed as GM, I'd let him replace Tim Wilken in a heartbeat.

 

Definitely.

 

Wasn't Jimbo the director of the farm system at one point? For a brief period when the Cubs system was ranked near the top? Yeah, let's get a new GM and let him do that again.

 

 

Not sure a farm system of nothing but starting pitching and .295 OBP athletic position players is the way to go again. Hendry's strength is starting pitching. I wouldn't let him touch any other aspect of drafting.

 

I think this is one of the better snippets in this thread. Hendry's(and now apparently Wilken's) love affair with "toolsy" types instead of guys who demonstrate an actual ability to have some sort of clue at the plate has always been the biggest detriment to the Cubs ability to develop useful position players.

 

As another poster has mentioned, it's forced them to the free agent market, and into some albatross contracts. Having said that, Hendry has started to show some evidence that he understands OBP and SLG are important as Bradley and Fukudome attest. (Now if they'd just perform as their previous numbers would suggest!!!). Drafting of guys like Tony Thomas in recent years indicated that as well.

 

Now if we could start seeing more of a tools/approach emphasis on position players early in the draft rather than just tools, that would be great.

 

Based on your screen name, I'm guessing that you're a former high draft choice of the Cubs.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I give this colosus until lunch time before they pop on the ole virtual padlock. Its basically the equivelent of what happens in junior high when the sub leaves the room.

[Soul]

Was I wrong to think there would be Hendry discussion in here?

[Derwood]

2002: Randy Wells, Rich Hill, Micah Hoffpauir

2003: Jake Fox, Sean Marshall, Tim Lincecum (did not sign)

2004: Eric Patterson, Sean Gallagher (both traded for Harden), Micah Owings (did not sign)

2005: Just bad

2006: Colvin (jury's out), Shark

2007: Vitters

2008: Cashner

 

 

Is it great? No. But high payroll teams use the draft differently than low payroll teams. You use it to fill in the roster and to make trades.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The MLB drafts a crap shoot. Bottom line. Its not like the NBA where a guys expected to make in impact in his first 3 years or hes out the door.

[WilcoFan]

2002: Randy Wells, Rich Hill, Micah Hoffpauir

2003: Jake Fox, Sean Marshall, Tim Lincecum (did not sign)

2004: Eric Patterson, Sean Gallagher (both traded for Harden), Micah Owings (did not sign)

2005: Just bad

2006: Colvin (jury's out), Shark

2007: Vitters

2008: Cashner

 

 

Is it great? No. But high payroll teams use the draft differently than low payroll teams. You use it to fill in the roster and to make trades.

 

 

The Boston Red Sox and Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jonathan Papelbon and Jon Lester disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(exception that proves the rule, but dang, its always disappointing to point out what truly great front offices can accomplish)

[Little Slide Rooter]

2002: Randy Wells, Rich Hill, Micah Hoffpauir

2003: Jake Fox, Sean Marshall, Tim Lincecum (did not sign)

2004: Eric Patterson, Sean Gallagher (both traded for Harden), Micah Owings (did not sign)

2005: Just bad

2006: Colvin (jury's out), Shark

2007: Vitters

2008: Cashner

 

 

Is it great? No. But high payroll teams use the draft differently than low payroll teams. You use it to fill in the roster and to make trades.

 

 

The Boston Red Sox and Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jonathan Papelbon and Jon Lester disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(exception that proves the rule, but dang, its always disappointing to point out what truly great front offices can accomplish)

 

Jay Jackson and Casey Coleman appear to be potential late round gems early on, already acieving sucess in AA at the age of 21, but time will tell.

[SouthSideRyan]

Because he consistently does less with more, despite having a top five NL payroll his entire tenure.

 

Omar Minaya laughs at this notion. He can't even get into the playoffs with a consistent top 5 payroll in all of the MLB and he has 3 of the ten or so best players in the majors.

 

As bad as Omar is, he has a .550 winning percentage compared to Hendry's .519.

 

I thought only post-season success matters?

 

 

You are right, in the end that's the only thing that matters. Neither GM has succeeded in the post season.

 

Which is why I keep telling people we need Joe Gariagiola Jr. for GM, but nobody's listening. WTF

[champaignchris]

Inability to draft position players is hardly an issue confined to Jim Hendry:

 

Here's a complete list of Cubs draft picks who've played 800 games in the big leagues (about 5 complete seasons) since 1988 (the first post-Dallas Green draft):

 

D. Glanville

E. Hinske

C. Patterson

 

To give some credit, Khalil Green (2001, didn't sign) is probably going to get to 800, and Ryan Theriot (2001) has a decent shot. Both were MacPhail picks. Given the standard length of time it takes a draft pick to get to the bigs, it's probably not fair to expect anyone drafted after 2001 to have played 800 games. However, no one drafted after 2001 has even played 100 games yet.

 

Compare to Dallas Green's draft picks (1982-1987)

 

Shawon Dunston (1982)

Jeff King (1983, didn't sign)

Rafael Palmeiro (1985)

Mark Grace (1985)

Joe Girardi (1986)

Jeff Cirillo (1987, didn't sign)

[CubColtPacer]

Hendry is being called out for the horrid condition of our farm system, which causes him to shell out ridiculous contracts to the likes of Soriano, Fukudome, Bradley and Miles, just to name a few.

 

If we had any semblance of a farm system, we wouldn't be spending 40M on one of the worst outfields in Baseball. The drafting by Hendry has been a flat out failure.

Okay, that's actually a good point when you explain it that way.

 

Again though, it's not as if he's the one making draft decisions. He's hiring/employing the people who are, though, so ultimately it does fall under him. Although your ire should be directed elsewhere if your biggest issue is the draft.

 

It's the snowball that keeps getting bigger because of the ineptitude that I have a problem with. The drafting has been terrible, which causes him to throw money at bad free agents because of the mistakes under his watch in the draft.

I see what you're saying. But ultimately your problem is with the people that fall under Hendry on the org chart, not Hendry himself. Right?

 

True. However, Hendry is the GM and he obviously has substantial say so as to the picks. How SOMEONE hasn't been canned with the state of the farm is beyond reason. Hendry's the boss, which means it falls in his lap.

 

Somebody did get fired...3 1/2 years ago now. At that point, the Cubs had some talent in the high minors and very little in the low minors. Now, that very little talent is in the high minors which leads to the bad farm system rankings..but the new staff has put a lot of talent together in the low minors and they are rising fast.

 

It doesn't make sense to suddenly fire either the scouting staff or Hendry for the results of mistakes in the draft that were made 4-6 years ago now. Both have been doing just fine in that department for 3 years now. If you want to talk about Hendry's regime in other areas, that's fine, but the drafting problems ended a while ago.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Somebody did get fired...3 1/2 years ago now. At that point, the Cubs had some talent in the high minors and very little in the low minors. Now, that very little talent is in the high minors which leads to the bad farm system rankings..but the new staff has put a lot of talent together in the low minors and they are rising fast.

 

It doesn't make sense to suddenly fire either the scouting staff or Hendry for the results of mistakes in the draft that were made 4-6 years ago now. Both have been doing just fine in that department for 3 years now. If you want to talk about Hendry's regime in other areas, that's fine, but the drafting problems ended a while ago.

 

Um, how is the Cubs talent level rising fast in the minors? I don't really see how they have been doing "just fine" in the draft. They may have plugged the dike, but they aren't exactly thriving down there.

[CubColtPacer]

 

Somebody did get fired...3 1/2 years ago now. At that point, the Cubs had some talent in the high minors and very little in the low minors. Now, that very little talent is in the high minors which leads to the bad farm system rankings..but the new staff has put a lot of talent together in the low minors and they are rising fast.

 

It doesn't make sense to suddenly fire either the scouting staff or Hendry for the results of mistakes in the draft that were made 4-6 years ago now. Both have been doing just fine in that department for 3 years now. If you want to talk about Hendry's regime in other areas, that's fine, but the drafting problems ended a while ago.

 

Um, how is the Cubs talent level rising fast in the minors? I don't really see how they have been doing "just fine" in the draft. They may have plugged the dike, but they aren't exactly thriving down there.

 

Just in starting pitchers, you have 3 from the 2008 draft that are already in AA. That's awfully fast for three different ones to be there already (and the two that have been there for a while are having success, while the other just got there).

 

In Daytona, you have a 4th starting pitcher from last year's draft who just got moved up after having success plus two 19 year olds who are doing well for their age in that league.

 

That's what I meant mostly about rising fast. The Cubs are starting to have real prospects start to hit the higher levels of the farm system, and they have plenty more behind them in Peoria and Boise (some would say that when you add the Koreans in that Peoria and Boise have the most talent of any of the levels, although Tennessee is really starting to make a case now).

 

With progression of these prospects to higher levels and a couple more drafts like the last couple, the Cubs system should be top 10-15 if not better in another 2 years. That's what I mean by doing fine..the Cubs system had to be completely repopulated and they have been doing that. They don't have a lot of stars, and if they don't get more stars they'll probably never reach the top 3-4, but they are on their way to having a very deep system of good prospects.

 

And remember, they've already traded away one of their good prospects from the last couple drafts, and he has to be included when talking about how well they've drafted as well (Donaldson).

[Soul]

 

Somebody did get fired...3 1/2 years ago now. At that point, the Cubs had some talent in the high minors and very little in the low minors. Now, that very little talent is in the high minors which leads to the bad farm system rankings..but the new staff has put a lot of talent together in the low minors and they are rising fast.

 

It doesn't make sense to suddenly fire either the scouting staff or Hendry for the results of mistakes in the draft that were made 4-6 years ago now. Both have been doing just fine in that department for 3 years now. If you want to talk about Hendry's regime in other areas, that's fine, but the drafting problems ended a while ago.

 

Um, how is the Cubs talent level rising fast in the minors? I don't really see how they have been doing "just fine" in the draft. They may have plugged the dike, but they aren't exactly thriving down there.

 

Just in starting pitchers, you have 3 from the 2008 draft that are already in AA. That's awfully fast for three different ones to be there already (and the two that have been there for a while are having success, while the other just got there).

 

In Daytona, you have a 4th starting pitcher from last year's draft who just got moved up after having success plus two 19 year olds who are doing well for their age in that league.

 

That's what I meant mostly about rising fast. The Cubs are starting to have real prospects start to hit the higher levels of the farm system, and they have plenty more behind them in Peoria and Boise (some would say that when you add the Koreans in that Peoria and Boise have the most talent of any of the levels, although Tennessee is really starting to make a case now).

 

With progression of these prospects to higher levels and a couple more drafts like the last couple, the Cubs system should be top 10-15 if not better in another 2 years. That's what I mean by doing fine..the Cubs system had to be completely repopulated and they have been doing that. They don't have a lot of stars, and if they don't get more stars they'll probably never reach the top 3-4, but they are on their way to having a very deep system of good prospects.

 

And remember, they've already traded away one of their good prospects from the last couple drafts, and he has to be included when talking about how well they've drafted as well (Donaldson).

 

I hope you're right, and they better continue to rise.

 

Because right now I'm starting to get a bit nervous about the intermediate future of the major league club.

[jersey cubs fan]

So you are giving credit to the Cubs because they have players the Cubs deem worthy or a promotion within a week system? They drafted a ton of college players the last few years. I don't see the value in awarding them for having guys who can get to AA relatively quickly.

[CubColtPacer]

So you are giving credit to the Cubs because they have players the Cubs deem worthy or a promotion within a week system? They drafted a ton of college players the last few years. I don't see the value in awarding them for having guys who can get to AA relatively quickly.

 

No, I'm giving credit to the Cubs because they have put a good amount of talent in the system (mostly due to the excellent 2008 draft and international signings, although the 2007 draft was pretty decent as well). The fact that they are fast rising due to the very aggressive promotions over the last year is just icing on the cake.

 

If they were only getting promoted because of a weak system, then they would not be having success at their new levels. The fact that they have maintained their success despite such aggressive promotions is an excellent sign for their futures.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

If they were only getting promoted because of a weak system, then they would not be having success at their new levels. The fact that they have maintained their success despite such aggressive promotions is an excellent sign for their futures.

 

Corey Patterson, Eric Patterson, Felix Pie and Brian Dopirak called.

 

:-"

Edited June 29, 2009 by ChiCubsfan0502

[dew1679666265]

If they were only getting promoted because of a weak system, then they would not be having success at their new levels. The fact that they have maintained their success despite such aggressive promotions is an excellent sign for their futures.

 

Corey Patterson, Eric Patterson, Felix Pie and Brian Dopriak called.

 

:-"

 

Corey's OPS dropped from .949 in A ball to .829 in AA to .694 in AAA.

 

EPatt's OPS dropped from .917 in A ball to .591 in AA and then never broke .817 in a full season again.

 

Pie's OPS did rise, but it was never very good. It was .604 (A), .637 (AA), .633 (AAA).

 

Dopirak went from a .670 OPS in his final season of A ball to .662 in his first season in AA and then started 2007 in advanced A again.

 

None of these players really go against what CCP is talking about. It's still early with these players, but they were good (to very good) in A ball and are still good (to very good) in AA. If Jay Jackson, Chris Carpenter, etc. all collapse the remainder of the season, you'll have a point.

 

Otherwise, it's too early to call them busts (or even expect it).

[Monco]

Hendrys done some good things but his biggest mistake is the Soriano contract. It started to show last offseason and will continue for many years.