ESPN: Cedeno & Olson Traded for Heilman (P. 4)

[BigbadB]

Whoops. I forgot to add Chad Fox.

 

I didn't think we were discussing 5th starter. I thought we were talking about an overabundance of pitching in general.

 

Whether these guys are good or bad, most still have 40 man roster spots, so they are with the team.

 

I think if Peavy gets traded, the overabundance of pitching is fixed.

 

I don't really think the "overabundance" is a problem that needs fixing, is it? Hill is probably gone. Samardzija is in AAA, with Hart and Ascanio (I assume they have options). The spare parts are probably Vizcaino and Guzman (he's out of options now, isn't he?). If Olson has options he can be sent down if they want to keep one of those guys.

 

I believe Raisin posted that Guzman has an option remaining.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

"according to major-league sources" isn't official, just quibbling.

[jersey cubs fan]

Whoops. I forgot to add Chad Fox.

 

I didn't think we were discussing 5th starter. I thought we were talking about an overabundance of pitching in general.

 

Whether these guys are good or bad, most still have 40 man roster spots, so they are with the team.

 

I think if Peavy gets traded, the overabundance of pitching is fixed.

 

I don't really think the "overabundance" is a problem that needs fixing, is it? Hill is probably gone. Samardzija is in AAA, with Hart and Ascanio (I assume they have options). The spare parts are probably Vizcaino and Guzman (he's out of options now, isn't he?). If Olson has options he can be sent down if they want to keep one of those guys.

 

I believe Raisin posted that Guzman has an option remaining.

 

Well then there's even less of an overabundance problem.

[nolanwood]

But we're talking about depth that is actually good, not depth with crappy players. If Zambrano gets hurt during a period where Harden is also out,how are we looking? Not only is our rotation a mess, but the bullpen is weakened significantly because you're taking guys from that to replace (or attempt to replace) the injured starters.

 

I'd say right with Heilman we'd have pretty decent depth but not "plenty"

 

How do the Cardinals look without Carp and Wainwright? How about the Mets without Santana and Maine?

 

The difference is that Zambrano and Harden getting hurt is much more likely than most teams 1/2 starters. Did Santana have shoulder problems last year? Is Maine a lock to miss significant time? And the Cards were without Carp all last year and they still won 86 games.

 

True. Also, name either of those teams have a #3 and #4 remotely comparable to Dempster and Lilly...

Edited January 28, 2009 by nolanwood

[CubColtPacer]

Whoops. I forgot to add Chad Fox.

 

I didn't think we were discussing 5th starter. I thought we were talking about an overabundance of pitching in general.

 

Whether these guys are good or bad, most still have 40 man roster spots, so they are with the team.

 

I think if Peavy gets traded, the overabundance of pitching is fixed.

 

I don't really think the "overabundance" is a problem that needs fixing, is it? Hill is probably gone. Samardzija is in AAA, with Hart and Ascanio (I assume they have options). The spare parts are probably Vizcaino and Guzman (he's out of options now, isn't he?). If Olson has options he can be sent down if they want to keep one of those guys.

 

Ascanio, Hart, Olson, Guzman, and Samardzija all have at least one option left (as do Marshall and Marmol, but they aren't going anywhere).

[UMFan83]

Goodbye Rnny Ceen, hello yet another RH pitcher. I really wish we had another LH arm in the pen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands right now (with Marshall in the rotation) the only LH pitcher in the pen is Cotts, and who knows what we will get from him.

 

Edit: I'm not upset about the trade, we improved our team. Just pointing out our lack of LH pitching in the pen.

[BigbadB]

I'd still say it's an overabundance problem. Heilman replaces Cedeno on the 40 man, but the Cubs become short on infield depth. Someone has to be added as a corner infield man, right?

[17 Seconds]

But we're talking about depth that is actually good, not depth with crappy players. If Zambrano gets hurt during a period where Harden is also out,how are we looking? Not only is our rotation a mess, but the bullpen is weakened significantly because you're taking guys from that to replace (or attempt to replace) the injured starters.

 

I'd say right with Heilman we'd have pretty decent depth but not "plenty"

 

How do the Cardinals look without Carp and Wainwright? How about the Mets without Santana and Maine?

 

The difference is that Zambrano and Harden getting hurt is much more likely than most teams 1/2 starters. Did Santana have shoulder problems last year? Is Maine a lock to miss significant time? And the Cards were without Carp all last year and they still won 86 games.

 

True. Also, name either of those teams that has a calibre #3 and #4 as Dempster and Lilly?

 

Depends on what Dempster we're talking about and which Dempster we're going to get in 2009

 

THis isn't the point though. I never said we didn't have depth. I was saying we didn't have "plenty of depth" or whatever was said

[BigbadB]

Goodbye Rnny Ceen, hello yet another RH pitcher. I really wish we had another LH arm in the pen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands right now (with Marshall in the rotation) the only LH pitcher in the pen is Cotts, and who knows what we will get from him.

 

Edit: I'm not upset about the trade, we improved our team. Just pointing out our lack of LH pitching in the pen.

 

Assuming Marshall is the #5 right now, the Cubs have Olson, Cotts and Piggy, I believe. Doesn't sound like Cashner will be ready before September at the earliest.

[justlikethecubs]

Goodbye Rnny Ceen, hello yet another RH pitcher. I really wish we had another LH arm in the pen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands right now (with Marshall in the rotation) the only LH pitcher in the pen is Cotts, and who knows what we will get from him.

 

Edit: I'm not upset about the trade, we improved our team. Just pointing out our lack of LH pitching in the pen.

 

I believe Olson from the O's is a lefty. correct me if im wrong.

[CubColtPacer]

I'd still say it's an overabundance problem. Heilman replaces Cedeno on the 40 man, but the Cubs become short on infield depth. Someone has to be added as a corner infield man, right?

 

An infielder of some kind will have to be added, yes. It sounds like they are debating if they want a middle infielder or a corner infielder. That player will likely be signed in free agency and take Hill's 40 man spot when he's traded.

[BigbadB]

I'd still say it's an overabundance problem. Heilman replaces Cedeno on the 40 man, but the Cubs become short on infield depth. Someone has to be added as a corner infield man, right?

 

An infielder of some kind will have to be added, yes. It sounds like they are debating if they want a middle infielder or a corner infielder. That player will likely be signed in free agency and take Hill's 40 man spot when he's traded.

 

Ahh. I see now. It'll probably end up being someone who can play any infield position like Uribe.

[cubsfan26]

Goodbye Rnny Ceen, hello yet another RH pitcher. I really wish we had another LH arm in the pen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands right now (with Marshall in the rotation) the only LH pitcher in the pen is Cotts, and who knows what we will get from him

 

 

Maybe Hendry can swap Wuertz or Vizcaino for a LH reliever still. Right now our pen seems very full if Heilman ends up being a 7th inning reliever for us.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd still say it's an overabundance problem. Heilman replaces Cedeno on the 40 man, but the Cubs become short on infield depth. Someone has to be added as a corner infield man, right?

 

I don't see what you're seeing. They have enough roster spots and guys with options to field a 7 man pen and rotate a handful of guys in during the season. And nobody is being forced off the 40-man either. Fox is around, but he's meaningless. Hill is probably gone, because of the option situation and the fact that they can't count on him for anything, not because of an overabundance.

 

Yes, they lack SS depth (or any real SS actually), but that's a system issue, and not the fault of too many pitchers.

[Little Slide Rooter]

10:55am: Ken Rosenthal confirms the deal, saying the Cubs are on the verge of landing Heilman for Cedeno and a minor league pitcher. The deal is expected to be announced today.

 

Any word on who the minor league pither is? I doubt it would be Atkins, Jackson, or Rhee. Hope not anyway.

[Outshined_One]

Goodbye Rnny Ceen, hello yet another RH pitcher. I really wish we had another LH arm in the pen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands right now (with Marshall in the rotation) the only LH pitcher in the pen is Cotts, and who knows what we will get from him.

 

Edit: I'm not upset about the trade, we improved our team. Just pointing out our lack of LH pitching in the pen.

 

I believe Olson from the O's is a lefty. correct me if im wrong.

 

You are correct.

[nolanwood]

But we're talking about depth that is actually good, not depth with crappy players. If Zambrano gets hurt during a period where Harden is also out,how are we looking? Not only is our rotation a mess, but the bullpen is weakened significantly because you're taking guys from that to replace (or attempt to replace) the injured starters.

 

I'd say right with Heilman we'd have pretty decent depth but not "plenty"

 

How do the Cardinals look without Carp and Wainwright? How about the Mets without Santana and Maine?

 

The difference is that Zambrano and Harden getting hurt is much more likely than most teams 1/2 starters. Did Santana have shoulder problems last year? Is Maine a lock to miss significant time? And the Cards were without Carp all last year and they still won 86 games.

 

True. Also, name either of those teams that has a calibre #3 and #4 as Dempster and Lilly?

 

Depends on what Dempster we're talking about and which Dempster we're going to get in 2009

 

THis isn't the point though. I never said we didn't have depth. I was saying we didn't have "plenty of depth" or whatever was said

 

Name me a team whose rotation would be better in that situation than if it were to happen to the Cubs.

[Outshined_One]

10:55am: Ken Rosenthal confirms the deal, saying the Cubs are on the verge of landing Heilman for Cedeno and a minor league pitcher. The deal is expected to be announced today.

 

Any word on who the minor league pither is? I doubt it would be Atkins, Jackson, or Rhee. Hope not anyway.

 

Jackson can't be traded until summer. My hope is that the Cubs threw someone like JR Mathes at the Mariners.

[jersey cubs fan]

Goodbye Rnny Ceen, hello yet another RH pitcher. I really wish we had another LH arm in the pen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands right now (with Marshall in the rotation) the only LH pitcher in the pen is Cotts, and who knows what we will get from him

 

 

Maybe Hendry can swap Wuertz or Vizcaino for a LH reliever still. Right now our pen seems very full if Heilman ends up being a 7th inning reliever for us.

 

I'm guessing 7th inning isn't really his role. He might be more of a swingman long reliever type.

[cubbinalltheway]

is any other team overhauling their roster more than the Cubs this offseason?

[abuck1220]

lol...there's no O or D in ronny cedeno. lol indeed.

[17 Seconds]

But we're talking about depth that is actually good, not depth with crappy players. If Zambrano gets hurt during a period where Harden is also out,how are we looking? Not only is our rotation a mess, but the bullpen is weakened significantly because you're taking guys from that to replace (or attempt to replace) the injured starters.

 

I'd say right with Heilman we'd have pretty decent depth but not "plenty"

 

How do the Cardinals look without Carp and Wainwright? How about the Mets without Santana and Maine?

 

The difference is that Zambrano and Harden getting hurt is much more likely than most teams 1/2 starters. Did Santana have shoulder problems last year? Is Maine a lock to miss significant time? And the Cards were without Carp all last year and they still won 86 games.

 

True. Also, name either of those teams that has a calibre #3 and #4 as Dempster and Lilly?

 

Depends on what Dempster we're talking about and which Dempster we're going to get in 2009

 

THis isn't the point though. I never said we didn't have depth. I was saying we didn't have "plenty of depth" or whatever was said

 

Name me a team whose rotation would be better in that situation than if it were to happen to the Cubs.

 

I really don't understand what you're trying to get at. I could just as easily ask "name teams whose top 2 starters are as big of an injury risk as Zambrano and Harden". It's irrelevant

 

My point was that we don't "certainly have plenty of depth". You never do, especially when your top 2 starters are injury risks.

[BigbadB]

is any other team overhauling their roster more than the Cubs this offseason?

 

I don't think anyone is even close to the Cubs in offseason moves. Something still needs to happen with Rich Hill and they still need a back up infielder, even if a Peavy deal doesn't happen.

[jersey cubs fan]

is any other team overhauling their roster more than the Cubs this offseason?

 

The Yankees? Half the rotation is different, the starting 1b/DH has been replaced, as has the starting RF.

[cubsfan26]

Goodbye Rnny Ceen, hello yet another RH pitcher. I really wish we had another LH arm in the pen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands right now (with Marshall in the rotation) the only LH pitcher in the pen is Cotts, and who knows what we will get from him

 

 

Maybe Hendry can swap Wuertz or Vizcaino for a LH reliever still. Right now our pen seems very full if Heilman ends up being a 7th inning reliever for us.

 

I'm guessing 7th inning isn't really his role. He might be more of a swingman long reliever type.

 

 

Yeah I guess it depends on what else we do, if Hendry adds another starter without trading Marshall. Then I think Heilman might be stuck in a late inning role still. I thought I remember reading somewhere that the Cubs felt Heilman was the final piece to the pen or something.