ESPN: Cedeno & Olson Traded for Heilman (P. 4)

[ConstableRabbit]

http://blog.stats.com/2009/01/whiff_profile_aaron_heilman.html

 

A piece on Heilman and his pitches. According to this, they are pretty good and he has a history of pitching out of the zone rather than attacking hitters. They also predict his 09 will be like his better years.

Nasty.

[Wrigley Rat]

Just thought this was interesting...

 

The article talks about Hendry and Seattle GM Zduriencik's discussions regarding the potential of trading for Heilman. They had already agreed on Garrett Olson, but Zduriencik also asked for Cedeno...

 

Zduriencik pushed his leverage, asking that Cedeno, 26, a three-position player who hit .269 in 99 games for the Cubs, be included in the deal. At that moment, Hendry, on vacation in Italy, hemmed and hawed as he stood outside the Vatican. Then he wanted an hour to think about it. When he called back to say yes, Zduriencik couldn't resist: "You must have gotten divine inspiration."

 

The article was an interesting read about the evolution of a trade between GM's.

 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/399030_thiel06.html

[RammyFanny]

Random thought and knee jerk reaction:

 

I know it has not been long, but after the initial "awe" of realizing Olsen wasn't going to be used to trade for Jake Peavy, this deal doesn't look as terrible as we all made it out to be considering the stuff Heilman has shown in the early going of ST.

[17 Seconds]

Spring training performance shouldn't really change any opinions

[Cubswin11]

Spring training performance shouldn't really change any opinions

It shouldn't, but if Heilman was going out there and not being able to pitch out of an inning and had like a 10+ ERA you know people would be going crazy about the trade and all over Hendry for it.

[Mephistopheles]

Cubs.com release..They're trying to talk him up for the non-knowledgeable Cub fans like it's a great trade..

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090128&content_id=3778476&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

I do think it's a good trade. I support this move 100%.

[17 Seconds]

So you're already congratulating yourself on something that hasn't even been proven yet. You're way ahead of schedule

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I know stuff has happened since then, but there were a lot of people who thought Heilman was a great trade target a year or so ago. He's got good stuff and was a 1st round pick. It's weird that he went so quickly from sleeper pitcher we should go after to mediocre junk that we got saddled with.

[Bote McBoteface]

I didn't think it was a bad trade, it was just a little bit of a head scratcher. I think Heilman will be good, I just hope he's good in the bullpen and not in the rotation.

[cubsfan26]

I liked this trade from day one, I thought Heilman had the stuff to be a solid number 4, or lights out set-up guy. Plus I didn't think Cedeno had any value, and Olson was simliar to many other pitchers we had in our system already. I think this move has a good chance to be one of those Hendry moves that got bashed at first, but people are very happy with in the long run. I know it's only still spring training, and im not sold on him as a starter. But I do think he got himself back on track to at least being a dominant late inning reliever like he was from 05-07.

[17 Seconds]

I don't think everybody liked the idea of Heilman, just not the trade itself. It seemed like he should have come cheaper. Olson is not great, but he should have had more valuable than a reliever coming off a horrible season.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't think everybody liked the idea of Heilman, just not the trade itself. It seemed like he should have come cheaper. Olson is not great, but he should have had more valuable than a reliever coming off a horrible season.

 

why would he have had more value than that? he wasn't all that highly regarded as a prospect before last season, and he was horrible as a starter with the big club. he has a nice fastball and not much else. at least heilman had three really good seasons as a reliever before he tanked last year. they traded a guy who might be average for a backup middle infielder, and a guy who's unlikely to become an adequate starter, for a guy with a rubber arm and a track record as a good relief pitcher. sounds good to me.

[RedFlash]

I don't think everybody liked the idea of Heilman, just not the trade itself. It seemed like he should have come cheaper. Olson is not great, but he should have had more valuable than a reliever coming off a horrible season.

 

I think most people didn't like the trade because Olson was "supposedly" a guy the Padres wanted in a trade for Peavy and when he went to Seattle, it would officially mean that Peavy was not coming to Chicago.

 

As for Olson "have had more valuable than a reliever coming off a horrible season" statement: it is true Heilman had an awful season. But Heilman is a reliever who had ERAs or 3.17/3.62/3.03 and WHIPs of 1.14/1.16/1.07 coming into 2008. So imo Heilman had an off yr in 2008 and the Mets found an out to get rid off him. Heilman even coming off a rough yr in New York still has more value than unknown in Olson. I realize Olson has put up really good numbers in the minors, but in 33 games in the majors Olson has put up a line of 6.87ERA/1.81WHIP with the O's. Now I do understand Olson will get better but for 2009 and perhaps even 2010, Heilman will be a better pitcher than Olson.

 

With that said, do I have some concerns about Heilman becoming Latroy Hawkins part 2? Of course I do, but I feel safer going into 2009 with Heilman in the pen, then say Vizcaino in the pen and Olson in AAA. So yeah, I kinda like the deal.

[Keener98]

Cubs.com release..They're trying to talk him up for the non-knowledgeable Cub fans like it's a great trade..

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090128&content_id=3778476&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

I do think it's a good trade. I support this move 100%. And JR Towels is going to be rookie of the year guys, BOOK IT!!

[TruffleShuffle]

man i just read through the first few pages of this thread for the first time... if that's not evidence that people will dump on hendry for anything then i don't know what is. people are treating olson like he's some great pitcher, not a guy who got clobbered last season and doesn't have an out pitch. BA ranked him as baltimore's #12 prospect going into last season and their system was pretty much regarded as average. i'm not hendry's biggest fan, but jeez, have some perspective folks.

[jersey cubs fan]

man i just read through the first few pages of this thread for the first time... if that's not evidence that people will dump on hendry for anything then i don't know what is. people are treating olson like he's some great pitcher, not a guy who got clobbered last season and doesn't have an out pitch. BA ranked him as baltimore's #12 prospect going into last season and their system was pretty much regarded as average. i'm not hendry's biggest fan, but jeez, have some perspective folks.

 

Really? I thought people were down on turning Pie and Cedeno into another inconsistent reliever making millions. Personally, as somebody who has been hearing Mets fans do nothing but bitch about the guy for years now, I'm not all that enthusiastic about his tenure.

[TruffleShuffle]

man i just read through the first few pages of this thread for the first time... if that's not evidence that people will dump on hendry for anything then i don't know what is. people are treating olson like he's some great pitcher, not a guy who got clobbered last season and doesn't have an out pitch. BA ranked him as baltimore's #12 prospect going into last season and their system was pretty much regarded as average. i'm not hendry's biggest fan, but jeez, have some perspective folks.

 

Really? I thought people were down on turning Pie and Cedeno into another inconsistent reliever making millions. Personally, as somebody who has been hearing Mets fans do nothing but bitch about the guy for years now, I'm not all that enthusiastic about his tenure.

 

this just in, a lot of fans are idiots. he was really damn good from 2005-07; if people were bitching about his performance then that's because they remembered a bad outing somewhere along the way and let it skew their opinion of the guy. if he pitches like he did last year then sure, we'll all hate him, but there's a pretty good shot at a return to form. a better hell of a lot better chance that he can provide a meaningful positive contribution to this team than olson or cedeno.

 

also, cedeno sucks and pie probably sucks too, so not much lost there.

[shnsajax]

man i just read through the first few pages of this thread for the first time... if that's not evidence that people will dump on hendry for anything then i don't know what is. people are treating olson like he's some great pitcher, not a guy who got clobbered last season and doesn't have an out pitch. BA ranked him as baltimore's #12 prospect going into last season and their system was pretty much regarded as average. i'm not hendry's biggest fan, but jeez, have some perspective folks.

 

Really? I thought people were down on turning Pie and Cedeno into another inconsistent reliever making millions. Personally, as somebody who has been hearing Mets fans do nothing but bitch about the guy for years now, I'm not all that enthusiastic about his tenure.

 

this just in, a lot of fans are idiots. he was really damn good from 2005-07; if people were bitching about his performance then that's because they remembered a bad outing somewhere along the way and let it skew their opinion of the guy. if he pitches like he did last year then sure, we'll all hate him, but there's a pretty good shot at a return to form. a better hell of a lot better chance that he can provide a meaningful positive contribution to this team than olson or cedeno.

 

also, cedeno sucks and pie probably sucks too, so not much lost there.

 

People were just pissed that Olson didn't turn into Peavy like they had initially thought and hoped he would.

[EhDubya]

People were just pissed that Olson didn't turn into Peavy like they had initially thought and hoped he would.

 

This. And bitter about the way that Pie's time here ended up. People knew that his trade value was diminished, but going from "untouchable" to a trade for neither Brian Roberts or Jake Peavey is an awful taste.

 

I think people, for the most part, give Hendry credit when he does something well. People praised him for the, Ramirez, Lee, Nomar, Harden trades, and came around to the Edmonds/Johnson acquisitions when they proved to be great moves.

 

I think fans turn on him quickly now sometimes because he has a high payroll and can't quite get it right all the time to get a team to the WS. The bad moves gets magnified because of frustration.

[biittner77]

People were just pissed that Olson didn't turn into Peavy like they had initially thought and hoped he would.

 

This. And bitter about the way that Pie's time here ended up. People knew that his trade value was diminished, but going from "untouchable" to a trade for neither Brian Roberts or Jake Peavey is an awful taste.

 

I think people, for the most part, give Hendry credit when he does something well. People praised him for the, Ramirez, Lee, Nomar, Harden trades, and came around to the Edmonds/Johnson acquisitions when they proved to be great moves.

 

I think fans turn on him quickly now sometimes because he has a high payroll and can't quite get it right all the time to get a team to the WS. The bad moves gets magnified because of frustration.

 

That and the bad moves tend to be really horribly bad moves like trading for Juan Pierre, giving Marquis $10 million/ year, giving Soriano way too much money, selling low on just about every prospect and finally trying to mimic whoever won the WS last year.