Re: Teahen for Fontenot and Marshall?

[Backtobanks]

I wonder if Fontenot could play RF and outproduce Teahan.

 

If they're getting Teahen to replace Ward/ Hoffpauir's spot I wouldn't mind him on the team in place of Fontenot as the LH bat off the bench.

 

I'd rather have Fontenot and Hoffpauir as lefties coming off the bench.

[Mephistopheles]

I like Teahen. I don't know why. Well I do know why. There's a decent chance that 2006 wasn't an anomaly.

[big_shooter17]

I like Teahen. I don't know why. Well I do know why. There's a decent chance that 2006 wasn't an anomaly.

 

I remember going to KC to see the Royals play near the end of '06. Between stat lines, highlights, and what I saw in those two games, I really believed that Teahen was going to be one of the next great superstars and the kind of guy who could have lead that team out of the basement. Now, I don't even know if he'd be worth Cedeno like some other people mentioned. Looking at his production makes me wonder why Hendry would make this move. Teahen's numbers in RF don't look any better than Fuku. I also think that Fuku will improve while Teahen has a downward trend. I know that Mark can play more than one position, but we already have DeRo. I really think that if the new RF isn't an impact guy, the Cubs should go with Hoff tentatively and if that doesn't work, you are really going into the beginning of the season with the same team that broke camp last year. I also am looking forward to a time that Marshall can get his shot in the rotation again. I think that he would be starting for the majority of teams in the majors, and probably not just as a number 5. I know that with Marquis, there isn't really any room and he is a similar guy in comparison with Lilly in regards to his stuff, but I like the kid and I think there is potential. He has shown some in his past performances. Anyway, let's hope that this is unfounded or not close to the names actually being thrown around.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I like Teahen. I don't know why. Well I do know why. There's a decent chance that 2006 wasn't an anomaly.

 

What's the story behind his last 1200 PA's then? 2006 certainly looks like an aberration, with a BABIP much higher than expected(although his LD% has improved), and a HR/F rate much higher than any other point in his career.

[Lefty]

There is always hope, there's that word again, that maybe he is taking a longer time to recover from his 2006 surgery. He did get some power back last year. And the move to the NL should also help his numbers (and thus his production). No way I trade Marshall for him.

[JeffH]

Teahen strikes out so much that he's going to have to start hitting the ball out of the ballpark if he's going to be really good.

[Sever82]

While Mark Teahen is a player of interest for the Cubs, they certainly won't be trading Mike Fontenot and Sean Marshall for him. The Cubs don't really consider Teahen the middle of the order bat they require.

 

Courtesy of Mlbtraderumors.com

 

Thank you if this is true.

[SaorsaDaonnan]

Teahen strikes out so much that he's going to have to start hitting the ball out of the ballpark if he's going to be really good.

 

 

fine, but that's not the question. a player can be a useful contributor without

being especially good. mere competence can be quite valuable, provided that

it can found at low cost.

 

Teahen could be a useful player to have around, but he's in the arbitration stage

and, if traded for Fontenot or Marshall, would be replacing cheaper players who

have more time left before free agency. if there's any chance of the Cubs giving

the 2B slot to Fontenot in '10, it'd be a bad idea to move him. it's anybody's guess

whether they'd take the idea seriously, though

[Jehrico]

I didn't realize until now that Kosuke out-OPSd Teahan last year, even though the NL Central has stronger pitching than the AL Central.

[Post Count Padder]

While Mark Teahen is a player of interest for the Cubs, they certainly won't be trading Mike Fontenot and Sean Marshall for him. The Cubs don't really consider Teahen the middle of the order bat they require.

 

Courtesy of Mlbtraderumors.com

 

Thank you if this is true.

Please be true. I have faith that Hendry isn't that stupid.

[Sever82]

I really dont have much faith in Hendry when it comes to talent evaluation. I mean when you even consider Teahan as a solution to a LF bat in the lineup you have to be pretty dumb. Teahan shouldn't even be considered since Fukudome puts up better numbers, what people forget to acknowledge is that Fukudome is coming off his first yr in the majors, think of his year last year as a rookie, he'll adjust and put up better numbers next year. He's not use to the Grind and Toughness of the league. I'd rather have the cubs leave Fukudome out there at Right and trade for Peavy than trade for Teahan and not trade for Peavy. If the Cubs trade for Teahan i will be very dissapointed especially if they trade Pie away or let him go. Call me crazy but i even think Pie is better than Teahan, what annoys me about Piniella is that he puts too much in "veteran experience." I mean he hasn't really given Pie a shot and well, its led a lot of fans to believe that Pie is garbage. The way Piniella is with Pie and some of the other young cubs players, really reminds me of how scott skiles was with the bulls. Skiles loved to play the veterans only and always had a short leash on the young players, just as Piniella does. You could even say that Theriot is Scott Skile's Kirk Hinrich. I'm really annoyed with how much playing time Theriot gets when i honestly think Cedeno is better than Theriot. I would rather start Derosa, Fontenot, and Cedeno at short, than Theriot. Sometimes Lou gets lucky and a young player shows immediate promise like Soto but imagine if Soto began his debut with a 2 week slump, Lou probably would've given up on him and played Kendall and maybe even requested Kendall to be resigned.

[CUBZ99]

I really dont have much faith in Hendry when it comes to talent evaluation. I mean when you even consider Teahan as a solution to a LF bat in the lineup you have to be pretty dumb. Teahan shouldn't even be considered since Fukudome puts up better numbers, what people forget to acknowledge is that Fukudome is coming off his first yr in the majors, think of his year last year as a rookie, he'll adjust and put up better numbers next year. He's not use to the Grind and Toughness of the league. I'd rather have the cubs leave Fukudome out there at Right and trade for Peavy than trade for Teahan and not trade for Peavy. If the Cubs trade for Teahan i will be very dissapointed especially if they trade Pie away or let him go. Call me crazy but i even think Pie is better than Teahan, what annoys me about Piniella is that he puts too much in "veteran experience." I mean he hasn't really given Pie a shot and well, its led a lot of fans to believe that Pie is garbage. The way Piniella is with Pie and some of the other young cubs players, really reminds me of how scott skiles was with the bulls. Skiles loved to play the veterans only and always had a short leash on the young players, just as Piniella does. You could even say that Theriot is Scott Skile's Kirk Hinrich. I'm really annoyed with how much playing time Theriot gets when i honestly think Cedeno is better than Theriot. I would rather start Derosa, Fontenot, and Cedeno at short, than Theriot. Sometimes Lou gets lucky and a young player shows immediate promise like Soto but imagine if Soto began his debut with a 2 week slump, Lou probably would've given up on him and played Kendall and maybe even requested Kendall to be resigned.

 

Kind of hard to criticize anyone's talent evaluation abilities after making a statement like that. Theriot may not be the most sexy SS in baseball, but how can you honestly justify saying that Cedeno is better?

 

IMO Hendry has done a pretty good job at evaluating talent since becoming GM. Sure he gets lucky sometimes like with Edmonds, Johnson, etc. But whenever he has gambled with those type of players he has done so at very little cost. It has never been Hendry's MO to vastly overpay for talent in a trade. In regard to Teahan, Hendry probably views him as a buy low guy that may have potential if he can be acquired at the right price.

[Sever82]

I really dont have much faith in Hendry when it comes to talent evaluation. I mean when you even consider Teahan as a solution to a LF bat in the lineup you have to be pretty dumb. Teahan shouldn't even be considered since Fukudome puts up better numbers, what people forget to acknowledge is that Fukudome is coming off his first yr in the majors, think of his year last year as a rookie, he'll adjust and put up better numbers next year. He's not use to the Grind and Toughness of the league. I'd rather have the cubs leave Fukudome out there at Right and trade for Peavy than trade for Teahan and not trade for Peavy. If the Cubs trade for Teahan i will be very dissapointed especially if they trade Pie away or let him go. Call me crazy but i even think Pie is better than Teahan, what annoys me about Piniella is that he puts too much in "veteran experience." I mean he hasn't really given Pie a shot and well, its led a lot of fans to believe that Pie is garbage. The way Piniella is with Pie and some of the other young cubs players, really reminds me of how scott skiles was with the bulls. Skiles loved to play the veterans only and always had a short leash on the young players, just as Piniella does. You could even say that Theriot is Scott Skile's Kirk Hinrich. I'm really annoyed with how much playing time Theriot gets when i honestly think Cedeno is better than Theriot. I would rather start Derosa, Fontenot, and Cedeno at short, than Theriot. Sometimes Lou gets lucky and a young player shows immediate promise like Soto but imagine if Soto began his debut with a 2 week slump, Lou probably would've given up on him and played Kendall and maybe even requested Kendall to be resigned.

 

Kind of hard to criticize anyone's talent evaluation abilities after making a statement like that. Theriot may not be the most sexy SS in baseball, but how can you honestly justify saying that Cedeno is better?

 

IMO Hendry has done a pretty good job at evaluating talent since becoming GM. Sure he gets lucky sometimes like with Edmonds, Johnson, etc. But whenever he has gambled with those type of players he has done so at very little cost. It has never been Hendry's MO to vastly overpay for talent in a trade. In regard to Teahan, Hendry probably views him as a buy low guy that may have potential if he can be acquired at the right price.

 

Like i said in my opinion Cedeno is better. In Cedeno's first full season hit .249 6 hr 41 Rbis, Theriots first season he hit .266 3 hr and 45 RBIs. Not much of a difference plus Cedenos has greater range and a stronger arm than theriot. Theriot did hit over .300 last year but it was his second season, has Cedeno really had a chance to play a 2nd season? no. Plus not to mention, Theriot hit .300 on a team full of hitters, so he got some good pitches to hit. You can't also measure how many runs or hits were given up because of Theriots lack of range or arm. Theriot made some nice plays that would have been routine for other shortstops. I would rather give Cedeno a shot at Shortstop. Please dont bring up his stats last year because although it was average he was a spot starter so you can't compare him to Theriot who knows his job is secure. Plus Theriot is the master of hitting the worthless single and also one of the worst base stealers.

 

At the end of the day if its not Cedeno, Fontenot should at least get the opportunity to play shortstop to see he can fit in. If Fontenot at the least has the type of defense as Theriot does, i'd rather have Fonteno since he can actually get extra base hits. Too many Chicagoans are in love with Theriot but yet his presence in the lineup doesn't really do much since he rarely even scores.

[inari]

AVG/HR/RBI is not a popular way to slash the stats around here, friend.

[Sever82]

true that, i just didn't feel like copy pasting every stat like obp, slug, etc. Either way like i said, its just my opinion but i feel that Theriot is overrated in this organization and i'd rather have Cedeno out there. Neither one is a great shortstop. I'm just sick and tired of seeing Theriot at the plate waiting to get walked and watching the pitch come in. You rarely saw theriot either hit an extra base hit or drive in a run, then when he got on base it was almost a 50/50 chance he was going to get caught stealing. Then on the defensive side, you'd see balls go through the middle that a normal shortstop would easily field. Sorry just frustration but to me the day theriot gets traded, will be a happy day which why i'm hoping he gets packaged in this peavy deal if it ever gets done.

[javy knows my name]

I like how he capitalized grind and toughness in his post. It's almost like he wanted the weakest points of his argument to stand out more.

 

But for the record, I agree with most of what you said about Theriot minus the comparison of his and Cedeno's first-year BAs. OBP was the key difference between the two of them. Cedeno's sub-.300 OBP made him a complete liability at the plate that year, whereas Theriot's pedestrian .330ish OBP made him replacement-level

[CUBZ99]

true that, i just didn't feel like copy pasting every stat like obp, slug, etc. Either way like i said, its just my opinion but i feel that Theriot is overrated in this organization and i'd rather have Cedeno out there. Neither one is a great shortstop. I'm just sick and tired of seeing Theriot at the plate waiting to get walked and watching the pitch come in. You rarely saw theriot either hit an extra base hit or drive in a run, then when he got on base it was almost a 50/50 chance he was going to get caught stealing. Then on the defensive side, you'd see balls go through the middle that a normal shortstop would easily field. Sorry just frustration but to me the day theriot gets traded, will be a happy day which why i'm hoping he gets packaged in this peavy deal if it ever gets done.

 

For a SS last year Theriot was 2nd in ALL of the Majors at OBP. There are things that Theriot is not good at, but getting on base is not one of them. Also, how is Theriot overrated? He's a SS that gets on base and plays average defense. I don't see anybody bragging about how good he is or saying that he is one of the elite players in the game. I find it funny though that you complain about Hendry's lack of ability to scout talent, when you are so eager to replace a guy that gets on base with a guy that hasn't shown anything other than flashes of good play.

 

In regard to Fontenot, Fontenot had a great year last year mostly because he was strictly platooned. If you look at his career splits, he has never had a problem hitting RHP. LHP has given him fits. Gotta give Lou credit for making the most out of his ability and to Fontenot for taking advantage of the opportunity.

[UK1679666180]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/909651.html

 

Chicago continues to buzz with rumors about outfielder Mark Teahen going to the Cubs. Sources with both clubs indicate the Cubs do have Teahen on their radar but do not view him as a solution to their search for a left-handed power bat.

 

That suggests the Cubs currently view Teahen as a fallback option.

[Schwarber Fan]

That suggests the Cubs currently view Teahen as a fallback option.

 

As they should

[17 Seconds]

true that, i just didn't feel like copy pasting every stat like obp, slug, etc. Either way like i said, its just my opinion but i feel that Theriot is overrated in this organization and i'd rather have Cedeno out there. Neither one is a great shortstop. I'm just sick and tired of seeing Theriot at the plate waiting to get walked and watching the pitch come in. You rarely saw theriot either hit an extra base hit or drive in a run, then when he got on base it was almost a 50/50 chance he was going to get caught stealing. Then on the defensive side, you'd see balls go through the middle that a normal shortstop would easily field. Sorry just frustration but to me the day theriot gets traded, will be a happy day which why i'm hoping he gets packaged in this peavy deal if it ever gets done.

 

For a SS last year Theriot was 2nd in ALL of the Majors at OBP. There are things that Theriot is not good at, but getting on base is not one of them. Also, how is Theriot overrated? He's a SS that gets on base and plays average defense. I don't see anybody bragging about how good he is or saying that he is one of the elite players in the game. I find it funny though that you complain about Hendry's lack of ability to scout talent, when you are so eager to replace a guy that gets on base with a guy that hasn't shown anything other than flashes of good play.

 

In regard to Fontenot, Fontenot had a great year last year mostly because he was strictly platooned. If you look at his career splits, he has never had a problem hitting RHP. LHP has given him fits. Gotta give Lou credit for making the most out of his ability and to Fontenot for taking advantage of the opportunity.

 

Theriot is not even close to being average defensively

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Theriot is not even close to being average defensively

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/030070.php

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023929.php

[17 Seconds]

Theriot is not even close to being average defensively

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/030070.php

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023929.php

 

Perfect example of why defensive metrics are worthless. I knew somebody was going to post something like that. You can make pretty much anybody look good if you dig hard enough through that stuff.

 

So you think Theriot is average defensively? Come on. I'm trying to avoid the dreaded "don't you watch the games?" line, but it's almost necessary. No way you could have watched him plau for more than 15 games and say that he is anything but below average defesnively.

 

"Hey, there's a ball hit 2 feet to my right. I think I'm going to unneccessarily drop to my knees and field it because I have plenty of time with my rocket arm. Wait, he was safe? How is that possible?"

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Theriot is not even close to being average defensively

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/030070.php

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023929.php

 

Perfect example of why defensive metrics are worthless. I knew somebody was going to post something like that. You can make pretty much anybody look good if you dig hard enough through that stuff.

 

So you think Theriot is average defensively? Come on. I'm trying to avoid the dreaded "don't you watch the games?" line, but it's almost necessary. No way you could have watched him plau for more than 15 games and say that he is anything but below average defesnively.

 

"Hey, there's a ball hit 2 feet to my right. I think I'm going to unneccessarily drop to my knees and field it because I have plenty of time with my rocket arm. Wait, he was safe? How is that possible?"

 

Yes, I'm sure if you searched you'd find me talking about how limited Theriot's range appears to be, or how weak his arm is. However, PMR is nothing to scoff at, and I'm definitely willing to reconsider that Theriot isn't as bad a defender as he appears(just like Adam Dunn isn't as bad a hitter as he appears when he looks really bad swinging and missing).

[17 Seconds]

Theriot is not even close to being average defensively

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/030070.php

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023929.php

 

Perfect example of why defensive metrics are worthless. I knew somebody was going to post something like that. You can make pretty much anybody look good if you dig hard enough through that stuff.

 

So you think Theriot is average defensively? Come on. I'm trying to avoid the dreaded "don't you watch the games?" line, but it's almost necessary. No way you could have watched him plau for more than 15 games and say that he is anything but below average defesnively.

 

"Hey, there's a ball hit 2 feet to my right. I think I'm going to unneccessarily drop to my knees and field it because I have plenty of time with my rocket arm. Wait, he was safe? How is that possible?"

 

Yes, I'm sure if you searched you'd find me talking about how limited Theriot's range appears to be, or how weak his arm is. However, PMR is nothing to scoff at, and I'm definitely willing to reconsider that Theriot isn't as bad a defender as he appears(just like Adam Dunn isn't as bad a hitter as he appears when he looks really bad swinging and missing).

 

Okay, maybe the "not even close to being average" was a bit much. I think he's definitely below average though.

[OleMissCub]

Theriot does have quite the noodle arm.