Bradley Signs with Cubs 3/$30 million (p. 33)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yes, the guy has spent a lot of time on the DL, but that doesn't mean he can't be involved in a freak injury or accident.

 

Tearing your ACL isn't a freak accident, though, no matter when it happens. Unless the freak part was some hoodlum coming out of nowhere, pinning you down and twisting your knee.

[Illini Iceman]

 

Like when he lost it on an ump at the end of the season in a playoff run while with the Padres - in 2007? The reason he got hurt one of the times in 07 was because he went loco on the first base ump after what he thought was a bad call. He ripped his hammy, or something like that.

 

 

The reason he went nuts on the ump was, supposedly (his coach confirmed it, IIRC), the ump made some racist comments. That doesn't necessarily justify anything, but it's a whole lot more understandable than him just thinking it was a bad call.

 

I believe he tore his ACL as his coach was restraining him. Just a freak injury.

 

You can't really call that a freak injury when it happens to a guy who is always hurt. It's just another example of how fragile he is.

Line drive off of Prior's elbow was just another example of how fragile he is?

 

I hope you don't really think that's a good comparison, because that's pretty bad. When you get a line drive off your elbow, you expect to get hurt. That's not being fragile. Did you see the Bradley injury? He barely even got his leg twisted or anything. The vast majority of the time, that does not result in a torn ACL.... unless you're really fragile. My grandma took a worse look fall than that a couple weeks ago and she didn't tear anything

 

I mean, come on. Comparing a line drive off the elbow to a harmless looking fall resulting in a torn ACL is pretty ridiculous. How many times does a line drive off the elbow in that same spot result in a fracture? How many time does a fall like Bradley's result in a torn ACL?

I wasn't making a comparison, just pointing out ridiculous your generalization was.

 

A more ridiculous comparison was you insinuating that your grandma is less fragile than Bradley because she didn't tear her ACL when she fell. (A fall that was worse than Bradley's!)

 

Yes, the guy has spent a lot of time on the DL, but that doesn't mean he can't be involved in a freak injury or accident.

 

If his grandma can OPS over .900 and is willing to take a backloaded deal it might be worth it for Hendry to at least get her in for a workout before he commits anything to Bradley.

[Monco]

Bradley hurting himself arguing with the umpire makes me wonder what kind of shape hes in. He was a DH for most of the year. With the money he'll be bringing in I hope he will step up his conditioning and flexibility. Some teams would demand it. The impression I get (mainly from the way they handle Soriano) is that the Cubs wouldn't.

[17 Seconds]

 

Like when he lost it on an ump at the end of the season in a playoff run while with the Padres - in 2007? The reason he got hurt one of the times in 07 was because he went loco on the first base ump after what he thought was a bad call. He ripped his hammy, or something like that.

 

 

The reason he went nuts on the ump was, supposedly (his coach confirmed it, IIRC), the ump made some racist comments. That doesn't necessarily justify anything, but it's a whole lot more understandable than him just thinking it was a bad call.

 

I believe he tore his ACL as his coach was restraining him. Just a freak injury.

 

You can't really call that a freak injury when it happens to a guy who is always hurt. It's just another example of how fragile he is.

Line drive off of Prior's elbow was just another example of how fragile he is?

 

I hope you don't really think that's a good comparison, because that's pretty bad. When you get a line drive off your elbow, you expect to get hurt. That's not being fragile. Did you see the Bradley injury? He barely even got his leg twisted or anything. The vast majority of the time, that does not result in a torn ACL.... unless you're really fragile. My grandma took a worse look fall than that a couple weeks ago and she didn't tear anything

 

I mean, come on. Comparing a line drive off the elbow to a harmless looking fall resulting in a torn ACL is pretty ridiculous. How many times does a line drive off the elbow in that same spot result in a fracture? How many time does a fall like Bradley's result in a torn ACL?

I wasn't making a comparison, just pointing out ridiculous your generalization was.

 

A more ridiculous comparison was you insinuating that your grandma is less fragile than Bradley because she didn't tear her ACL when she fell. (A fall that was worse than Bradley's!)

 

Yes, the guy has spent a lot of time on the DL, but that doesn't mean he can't be involved in a freak injury or accident.

 

Huh? What ridiculous genaralization did I make? When a guy who constantly gets injured tears his ACL because he stepped funny, that's not a freak accident, period. These are athletes. Do you understand how many times they slide awkwardly, step on a base awkradly, take an awkward step in the outfield, etc? They play everyday, your body takes this kind of stuff. I'm sorry, but stepping awkwardly on your leg during a 162 game baseball season is not even close to being a "freak accident".

[17 Seconds]

Bradley hurting himself arguing with the umpire makes me wonder what kind of shape hes in. He was a DH for most of the year. With the money he'll be bringing in I hope he will step up his conditioning and flexibility. Some teams would demand it. The impression I get (mainly from the way they handle Soriano) is that the Cubs wouldn't.

 

Don't worry about the ACL tear. It was a freak accident. There's basically no chance of him stepping awkwardly on his leg at all in the next few years. That's just flat out bizarre.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

8-[

[E.J.]

It's been nice not having to hear Vance's big mouth all over the place.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

It's been nice not having to hear Vance's big mouth all over the place.

 

http://www.auburnfootball.com/GIFS/yeahthat.gif

[davearm2]

Huh? What ridiculous genaralization did I make? When a guy who constantly gets injured tears his ACL because he stepped funny, that's not a freak accident, period. These are athletes. Do you understand how many times they slide awkwardly, step on a base awkradly, take an awkward step in the outfield, etc? They play everyday, your body takes this kind of stuff. I'm sorry, but stepping awkwardly on your leg during a 162 game baseball season is not even close to being a "freak accident".

Why don't you tell us. How many times a year does a guy slide awkwardly, step on a base awkwardly, take an awkward step in the outfield, etc?

 

What is the frequency on that kind of thing?

 

Once a month? Once a week? Every game?

 

Regardless, your point seems to be that an everyday player like Bradley would be exposed to that sort of circumstance frequently.

 

Yet somehow only once in however many career games has it resulted in a torn ACL. Huh.

 

And this is supposed to be convincing proof that what happened there *wasn't* a freak accident?

[17 Seconds]

My point is that this is a SPORT. They are athletes playing an athletic competetion. You're telling me that a guy stepping on his leg a little awkwardly is a "freak accident".

 

Come on.

 

"Yet somehow only once in however many career games has it resulted in a torn ACL. Huh."

 

It's not about the sepcific injury. Has his injury filled past been the same injury over and over again? No, it's been different things. This is just another one of them. If we're talking about a guy who is healthy every season and then suffers a torn ACL doing something like he did (the actual injury, not the event it happened during), then okay. Maybe you can call that a freak injury. But when a guy who CONSTANTLY gets injured, and then........ gets injured again... you can't really call it a "freak injury". It's just more of the same and a different, new, part of his body that is hurt.

[Bull]

It's been nice not having to hear Vance's big mouth all over the place.

 

http://www.auburnfootball.com/GIFS/yeahthat.gif

 

laryngitis?

[davearm2]

My point is that this is a SPORT. They are athletes playing an athletic competetion. You're telling me that a guy stepping on his leg a little awkwardly is a "freak accident".

 

Come on.

Huh? That's 100% backward.

 

You're the one telling us that pro athletes like Bradley step awkwardly all the time. And I agreed.

 

So by your own logic, then, Bradley himself has survived this occurrence uninjured many, many times. Apparently what's a freak thing is to have it result in a torn ACL.

[17 Seconds]

I think we have different definitions of "freak accident". To me, a freak accident something happened that will pretty much never happen again and is just bad luck and flukey, not that it will happen again and he just won't be injured by it. I think it's the act, not what it results in. Just because it happened under a weird cirumstance doesn't mean it couldn't have happened while doing a normal baseball related activity. Stepping on your leg funny is not a freak occurence, the situation is happened in is. If I had to choose between "bad luck/freak occurance" and "fragile body" for the reason as to why it resulted in a torn ACL, I'd believe the latter due to Bradley's track record.

[davearm2]

I think we have different definitions of "freak accident". To me, a freak accident something happened that will pretty much never happen again and is just bad luck and flukey, not that it will happen again and he just won't be injured by it. I think it's the act, not what it results in. Just because it happened under a weird cirumstance doesn't mean it couldn't have happened while doing a normal baseball related activity. Stepping on your leg funny is not a freak occurence, the situation is happened in is. If I had to choose between "bad luck/freak occurance" and "fragile body" for the reason as to why it resulted in a torn ACL, I'd believe the latter due to Bradley's track record.

You're apparently still mising the point that Bradley surely has stepped on his leg funny countless times (as you've told us all baseball players inevitably will), yet only once has it resulted in a torn ACL.

 

Sounds like that meets any reasonable definition of freak injury.

[17 Seconds]

I think we have different definitions of "freak accident". To me, a freak accident something happened that will pretty much never happen again and is just bad luck and flukey, not that it will happen again and he just won't be injured by it. I think it's the act, not what it results in. Just because it happened under a weird cirumstance doesn't mean it couldn't have happened while doing a normal baseball related activity. Stepping on your leg funny is not a freak occurence, the situation is happened in is. If I had to choose between "bad luck/freak occurance" and "fragile body" for the reason as to why it resulted in a torn ACL, I'd believe the latter due to Bradley's track record.

You're apparently still mising the point that Bradley surely has stepped on his leg funny countless times (as you've told us all baseball players inevitably will), yet only once has it resulted in a torn ACL.

 

Sounds like that meets any reasonable definition of freak injury.

 

By that logic, every time Bradley has sufferered an injury he hasn't suffered before, it's a freak injury. He must suffer from a lot of "freak injuries", and in that case you could say he's likely to keep suffering these new "freak injuries". When someone says something was a freak injury, that generally implies it's not part of a pattern and shouldn't be considered in any kind of pattern. So if Bradley tears a tendon his finger next season (and hasn't done it in the past) while swinging a bat next season, are we just going to say "meh, it's a freak accident"?

 

It was a freak situation, not a freak injury.

 

So basically you're say that anytime a player suffers an injury that he hasn't suffered before while doing something he's done in the past, it's a freak injury?

 

Derrek Lee breaking his wrist by getting run into was a freak accident. Prior getting hit with a line drive was a freak accident. They are freak accidents because you know there is almost no chance they happen again. Bradley stepping funny on his leg could easily happen again, and based on his fragile body, could result in another similar injury. If he tore his ACL in 2010 while running the bases, would you be saying "holy crap...... that's like impossible! 2 torn acl's in the same lifetime? freaky!". No.

 

How can a torn ACL be a freak accident when athletes suffer them all the time? Have you once turned on ESPN to see them talking about an athlete who suffered a ton ACL and thought to yourself "wow, that's crazy. what are the odds of that happening? No, of course not, because it happens all the time.

[davearm2]

I think we have different definitions of "freak accident". To me, a freak accident something happened that will pretty much never happen again and is just bad luck and flukey, not that it will happen again and he just won't be injured by it. I think it's the act, not what it results in. Just because it happened under a weird cirumstance doesn't mean it couldn't have happened while doing a normal baseball related activity. Stepping on your leg funny is not a freak occurence, the situation is happened in is. If I had to choose between "bad luck/freak occurance" and "fragile body" for the reason as to why it resulted in a torn ACL, I'd believe the latter due to Bradley's track record.

You're apparently still mising the point that Bradley surely has stepped on his leg funny countless times (as you've told us all baseball players inevitably will), yet only once has it resulted in a torn ACL.

 

Sounds like that meets any reasonable definition of freak injury.

 

By that logic, every time Bradley has sufferered an injury he hasn't suffered before, it's a freak injury. He must suffer from a lot of "freak injuries", and in that case you could say he's likely to keep suffering these new "freak injuries". When someone says something was a freak injury, that generally implies it's not part of a pattern and shouldn't be considered in any kind of pattern. So if Bradley tears a tendon his finger next season (and hasn't done it in the past) while swinging a bat next season, are we just going to say "meh, it's a freak accident"?

 

It was a freak situation, not a freak injury.

 

So basically you're say that anytime a player suffers an injury that he hasn't suffered before while doing something he's done in the past, it's a freak injury?

 

Derrek Lee breaking his wrist by getting run into was a freak accident. Prior getting hit with a line drive was a freak accident. They are freak accidents because you know there is almost no chance they happen again. Bradley stepping funny on his leg could easily happen again, and based on his fragile body, could result in another similar injury. If he tore his ACL in 2010 while running the bases, would you be saying "holy crap...... that's like impossible! 2 torn acl's in the same lifetime? freaky!". No.

 

How can a torn ACL be a freak accident when athletes suffer them all the time? Have you once turned on ESPN to see them talking about an athlete who suffered a ton ACL and thought to yourself "wow, that's crazy. what are the odds of that happening? No, of course not, because it happens all the time.

Well I can certainly appreciate your efforts to escape the fatal flaw in your own logic, but when you've reached the point of calling a pitcher getting hit with a line drive a freak accident, and a 1B colliding with a baserunner a freak accident, yet still maintain that a guy getting tackled by his own manager is not, then it may be time to quit while you're behind.

[17 Seconds]

I think we have different definitions of "freak accident". To me, a freak accident something happened that will pretty much never happen again and is just bad luck and flukey, not that it will happen again and he just won't be injured by it. I think it's the act, not what it results in. Just because it happened under a weird cirumstance doesn't mean it couldn't have happened while doing a normal baseball related activity. Stepping on your leg funny is not a freak occurence, the situation is happened in is. If I had to choose between "bad luck/freak occurance" and "fragile body" for the reason as to why it resulted in a torn ACL, I'd believe the latter due to Bradley's track record.

You're apparently still mising the point that Bradley surely has stepped on his leg funny countless times (as you've told us all baseball players inevitably will), yet only once has it resulted in a torn ACL.

 

Sounds like that meets any reasonable definition of freak injury.

 

By that logic, every time Bradley has sufferered an injury he hasn't suffered before, it's a freak injury. He must suffer from a lot of "freak injuries", and in that case you could say he's likely to keep suffering these new "freak injuries". When someone says something was a freak injury, that generally implies it's not part of a pattern and shouldn't be considered in any kind of pattern. So if Bradley tears a tendon his finger next season (and hasn't done it in the past) while swinging a bat next season, are we just going to say "meh, it's a freak accident"?

 

It was a freak situation, not a freak injury.

 

So basically you're say that anytime a player suffers an injury that he hasn't suffered before while doing something he's done in the past, it's a freak injury?

 

Derrek Lee breaking his wrist by getting run into was a freak accident. Prior getting hit with a line drive was a freak accident. They are freak accidents because you know there is almost no chance they happen again. Bradley stepping funny on his leg could easily happen again, and based on his fragile body, could result in another similar injury. If he tore his ACL in 2010 while running the bases, would you be saying "holy crap...... that's like impossible! 2 torn acl's in the same lifetime? freaky!". No.

 

How can a torn ACL be a freak accident when athletes suffer them all the time? Have you once turned on ESPN to see them talking about an athlete who suffered a ton ACL and thought to yourself "wow, that's crazy. what are the odds of that happening? No, of course not, because it happens all the time.

Well I can certainly appreciate your efforts to escape the fatal flaw in your own logic, but when you've reached the point of calling a pitcher getting hit with a line drive a freak accident, and a 1B colliding with a baserunner a freak accident, yet still maintain that a guy getting tackled by his own manager is not, then it may be time to quit while you're behind.

 

Are you serious? I've already explained to you thatr the cirumstance was freakish, but not the actual trauma his leg suffered. Just for some reason you keep ignoring that I've admitted that and even explained it. We've already been through this. Just because the situation in which the injury occured was weird doesn't mean the actual trauma to his leg was weird. It's not like Bud Black picked him up by his leg and started spinning him around.

 

Getting restrained by Bud Black did not tear his ACL. Catching his leg awkwardly is what tore his ACL. twisting your leg a little bit funny is not a freak accident. Having a baseball hitting your elbow at over 100 MPH is a freakish.

 

You're twisting up what we're discussing here. I've already admitted that the situation was freakish, but not the actual trauma that tore his ACL. Since we're discussing his ability to stay healthy, the circumstance in which his leg got twisted up doesn't matter as much as the fact as that a simple slip of his leg, something that probably happens a lot during a full season, caused his ACL to tear.

 

In the context of this conversation, a torn ACL while slipping as your manager is holding you back is no different than a torn ACL while jumping back to the bag on a pickoff attempt and landing on your leg in the same awkward manner. It's just another example of how somewhat normal types of "trauma" put Bradley on the shelf. No he'd never twist his leg like that while being held back by a manager again, but he could easily twist is like that again by doing something normal and baseball related. I know you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

 

You're usually a good posted but for some reason you're just trying to start stuff right now.

 

The fact is that a player could twist his leg like that in any number of ways during a season. The fact that it happened in that situation isn't really relevant to what we're discussing.... which is the ability of Bradley to stay on the field.

 

You know perfectly well that Bradley twisting his leg that slightly could EASILY happen during a regular season and it wouldn't be considered a freak thing.

 

I'll say it again since you you are trying to make this into something it's not. It was a freak situation, not a freak accident.

 

Pitchers almost never get hit on the elbow with a line drive

 

Players almost never get their wrist run into by a guy going full speed

 

Players step awkwardly on their legs during a season

 

Do you really not see the difference? The first 2 clearly weren't due to a player having a tendency of being injured, aka being soft. Tearing your ACL by stepping on your leg a ittle funny could easily be the result of a fragile body.

Edited January 4, 2009 by 17 Seconds

[CubsInNC]

 

Like when he lost it on an ump at the end of the season in a playoff run while with the Padres - in 2007? The reason he got hurt one of the times in 07 was because he went loco on the first base ump after what he thought was a bad call. He ripped his hammy, or something like that.

 

 

The reason he went nuts on the ump was, supposedly (his coach confirmed it, IIRC), the ump made some racist comments. That doesn't necessarily justify anything, but it's a whole lot more understandable than him just thinking it was a bad call.

 

I believe he tore his ACL as his coach was restraining him. Just a freak injury.

 

You can't really call that a freak injury when it happens to a guy who is always hurt. It's just another example of how fragile he is.

Line drive off of Prior's elbow was just another example of how fragile he is?

 

I hope you don't really think that's a good comparison, because that's pretty bad. When you get a line drive off your elbow, you expect to get hurt. That's not being fragile. Did you see the Bradley injury? He barely even got his leg twisted or anything. The vast majority of the time, that does not result in a torn ACL.... unless you're really fragile. My grandma took a worse look fall than that a couple weeks ago and she didn't tear anything

 

I mean, come on. Comparing a line drive off the elbow to a harmless looking fall resulting in a torn ACL is pretty ridiculous. How many times does a line drive off the elbow in that same spot result in a fracture? How many time does a fall like Bradley's result in a torn ACL?

I wasn't making a comparison, just pointing out ridiculous your generalization was.

 

A more ridiculous comparison was you insinuating that your grandma is less fragile than Bradley because she didn't tear her ACL when she fell. (A fall that was worse than Bradley's!)

 

Yes, the guy has spent a lot of time on the DL, but that doesn't mean he can't be involved in a freak injury or accident.

 

If his grandma can OPS over .900 and is willing to take a backloaded deal it might be worth it for Hendry to at least get her in for a workout before he commits anything to Bradley.

 

All I read was backloaded and grandma.... not sure I wanna read any more.

[davearm2]

I think we have different definitions of "freak accident". To me, a freak accident something happened that will pretty much never happen again and is just bad luck and flukey, not that it will happen again and he just won't be injured by it. I think it's the act, not what it results in. Just because it happened under a weird cirumstance doesn't mean it couldn't have happened while doing a normal baseball related activity. Stepping on your leg funny is not a freak occurence, the situation is happened in is. If I had to choose between "bad luck/freak occurance" and "fragile body" for the reason as to why it resulted in a torn ACL, I'd believe the latter due to Bradley's track record.

You're apparently still mising the point that Bradley surely has stepped on his leg funny countless times (as you've told us all baseball players inevitably will), yet only once has it resulted in a torn ACL.

 

Sounds like that meets any reasonable definition of freak injury.

 

By that logic, every time Bradley has sufferered an injury he hasn't suffered before, it's a freak injury. He must suffer from a lot of "freak injuries", and in that case you could say he's likely to keep suffering these new "freak injuries". When someone says something was a freak injury, that generally implies it's not part of a pattern and shouldn't be considered in any kind of pattern. So if Bradley tears a tendon his finger next season (and hasn't done it in the past) while swinging a bat next season, are we just going to say "meh, it's a freak accident"?

 

It was a freak situation, not a freak injury.

 

So basically you're say that anytime a player suffers an injury that he hasn't suffered before while doing something he's done in the past, it's a freak injury?

 

Derrek Lee breaking his wrist by getting run into was a freak accident. Prior getting hit with a line drive was a freak accident. They are freak accidents because you know there is almost no chance they happen again. Bradley stepping funny on his leg could easily happen again, and based on his fragile body, could result in another similar injury. If he tore his ACL in 2010 while running the bases, would you be saying "holy crap...... that's like impossible! 2 torn acl's in the same lifetime? freaky!". No.

 

How can a torn ACL be a freak accident when athletes suffer them all the time? Have you once turned on ESPN to see them talking about an athlete who suffered a ton ACL and thought to yourself "wow, that's crazy. what are the odds of that happening? No, of course not, because it happens all the time.

Well I can certainly appreciate your efforts to escape the fatal flaw in your own logic, but when you've reached the point of calling a pitcher getting hit with a line drive a freak accident, and a 1B colliding with a baserunner a freak accident, yet still maintain that a guy getting tackled by his own manager is not, then it may be time to quit while you're behind.

 

Are you serious? I've already explained to you thatr the cirumstance was freakish, but not the actual trauma his leg suffered. Just for some reason you keep ignoring that I've admitted that and even explained it. We've already been through this. Just because the situation in which the injury occured was weird doesn't mean the actual trauma to his leg was weird. It's not like Bud Black picked him up by his leg and started spinning him around.

 

Getting restrained by Bud Black did not tear his ACL. Catching his leg awkwardly is what tore his ACL. twisting your leg a little bit funny is not a freak accident. Having a baseball hitting your elbow at over 100 MPH is a freakish.

 

You're twisting up what we're discussing here. I've already admitted that the situation was freakish, but not the actual trauma that tore his ACL. Since we're discussing his ability to stay healthy, the circumstance in which his leg got twisted up doesn't matter as much as the fact as that a simple slip of his leg, something that probably happens a lot during a full season, caused his ACL to tear.

 

In the context of this conversation, a torn ACL while slipping as your manager is holding you back is no different than a torn ACL while jumping back to the bag on a pickoff attempt and landing on your leg in the same awkward manner. It's just another example of how somewhat normal types of "trauma" put Bradley on the shelf. No he'd never twist his leg like that while being held back by a manager again, but he could easily twist is like that again by doing something normal and baseball related. I know you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

 

You're usually a good posted but for some reason you're just trying to start stuff right now.

 

The fact is that a player could twist his leg like that in any number of ways during a season. The fact that it happened in that situation isn't really relevant to what we're discussing.... which is the ability of Bradley to stay on the field.

 

You know perfectly well that Bradley twisting his leg that slightly could EASILY happen during a regular season and it wouldn't be considered a freak thing.

 

I'll say it again since you you are trying to make this into something it's not. It was a freak situation, not a freak accident.

 

Pitchers almost never get hit on the elbow with a line drive

 

Players almost never get their wrist run into by a guy going full speed

 

Players step awkwardly on their legs during a season

 

Do you really not see the difference? The first 2 clearly weren't due to a player having a tendency of being injured, aka being soft. Tearing your ACL by stepping on your leg a ittle funny could easily be the result of a fragile body.

You're still trapped by your own faulty logic.

 

The more you argue that stepping awkwardly is a common occurrence for a ballplayer, the more you reinforce that it has surely happened to Bradley many times without an injury occurring.

 

So if a particular type of trauma is suffered countless times with no adverse effects, and one time with severe effect (torn ACL), what does that prove, exactly? Not whatever you're trying to make it prove, that's for sure.

[mdwilla]

I posted some photos taken at wrigley over the last week in baseball discussions no photos of Milton but they still add a little creditability to my story.

[TommyJohn]

I think we have different definitions of "freak accident". To me, a freak accident something happened that will pretty much never happen again and is just bad luck and flukey, not that it will happen again and he just won't be injured by it. I think it's the act, not what it results in. Just because it happened under a weird cirumstance doesn't mean it couldn't have happened while doing a normal baseball related activity. Stepping on your leg funny is not a freak occurence, the situation is happened in is. If I had to choose between "bad luck/freak occurance" and "fragile body" for the reason as to why it resulted in a torn ACL, I'd believe the latter due to Bradley's track record.

You're apparently still mising the point that Bradley surely has stepped on his leg funny countless times (as you've told us all baseball players inevitably will), yet only once has it resulted in a torn ACL.

 

Sounds like that meets any reasonable definition of freak injury.

 

By that logic, every time Bradley has sufferered an injury he hasn't suffered before, it's a freak injury. He must suffer from a lot of "freak injuries", and in that case you could say he's likely to keep suffering these new "freak injuries". When someone says something was a freak injury, that generally implies it's not part of a pattern and shouldn't be considered in any kind of pattern. So if Bradley tears a tendon his finger next season (and hasn't done it in the past) while swinging a bat next season, are we just going to say "meh, it's a freak accident"?

 

It was a freak situation, not a freak injury.

 

So basically you're say that anytime a player suffers an injury that he hasn't suffered before while doing something he's done in the past, it's a freak injury?

 

Derrek Lee breaking his wrist by getting run into was a freak accident. Prior getting hit with a line drive was a freak accident. They are freak accidents because you know there is almost no chance they happen again. Bradley stepping funny on his leg could easily happen again, and based on his fragile body, could result in another similar injury. If he tore his ACL in 2010 while running the bases, would you be saying "holy crap...... that's like impossible! 2 torn acl's in the same lifetime? freaky!". No.

 

How can a torn ACL be a freak accident when athletes suffer them all the time? Have you once turned on ESPN to see them talking about an athlete who suffered a ton ACL and thought to yourself "wow, that's crazy. what are the odds of that happening? No, of course not, because it happens all the time.

Well I can certainly appreciate your efforts to escape the fatal flaw in your own logic, but when you've reached the point of calling a pitcher getting hit with a line drive a freak accident, and a 1B colliding with a baserunner a freak accident, yet still maintain that a guy getting tackled by his own manager is not, then it may be time to quit while you're behind.

 

Are you serious? I've already explained to you thatr the cirumstance was freakish, but not the actual trauma his leg suffered. Just for some reason you keep ignoring that I've admitted that and even explained it. We've already been through this. Just because the situation in which the injury occured was weird doesn't mean the actual trauma to his leg was weird. It's not like Bud Black picked him up by his leg and started spinning him around.

 

Getting restrained by Bud Black did not tear his ACL. Catching his leg awkwardly is what tore his ACL. twisting your leg a little bit funny is not a freak accident. Having a baseball hitting your elbow at over 100 MPH is a freakish.

 

You're twisting up what we're discussing here. I've already admitted that the situation was freakish, but not the actual trauma that tore his ACL. Since we're discussing his ability to stay healthy, the circumstance in which his leg got twisted up doesn't matter as much as the fact as that a simple slip of his leg, something that probably happens a lot during a full season, caused his ACL to tear.

 

In the context of this conversation, a torn ACL while slipping as your manager is holding you back is no different than a torn ACL while jumping back to the bag on a pickoff attempt and landing on your leg in the same awkward manner. It's just another example of how somewhat normal types of "trauma" put Bradley on the shelf. No he'd never twist his leg like that while being held back by a manager again, but he could easily twist is like that again by doing something normal and baseball related. I know you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

 

You're usually a good posted but for some reason you're just trying to start stuff right now.

 

The fact is that a player could twist his leg like that in any number of ways during a season. The fact that it happened in that situation isn't really relevant to what we're discussing.... which is the ability of Bradley to stay on the field.

 

You know perfectly well that Bradley twisting his leg that slightly could EASILY happen during a regular season and it wouldn't be considered a freak thing.

 

I'll say it again since you you are trying to make this into something it's not. It was a freak situation, not a freak accident.

 

Pitchers almost never get hit on the elbow with a line drive

 

Players almost never get their wrist run into by a guy going full speed

 

Players step awkwardly on their legs during a season

 

Do you really not see the difference? The first 2 clearly weren't due to a player having a tendency of being injured, aka being soft. Tearing your ACL by stepping on your leg a ittle funny could easily be the result of a fragile body.

 

 

Bradley suffered a traumatic ACL rupture. I would in no way call him fragile or soft because of this injury anymore than Corey Patterson who ruptured his ACL in a non-traumatic way. And it takes about 18 months for his knee, or anybody's knee, to be near normal.

 

davearm2 is right in that each of the 3 scenarios you are talking about, there was someone directly impacting the other person - hence a contact injury.

[17 Seconds]

It's like you guy aren't reading what I'm saying.

 

Answer me this. The pressure that was put on Bradley's injury that caused the injury..... could that have easily happened during a nomral baseball related activity?

[17 Seconds]

I think we have different definitions of "freak accident". To me, a freak accident something happened that will pretty much never happen again and is just bad luck and flukey, not that it will happen again and he just won't be injured by it. I think it's the act, not what it results in. Just because it happened under a weird cirumstance doesn't mean it couldn't have happened while doing a normal baseball related activity. Stepping on your leg funny is not a freak occurence, the situation is happened in is. If I had to choose between "bad luck/freak occurance" and "fragile body" for the reason as to why it resulted in a torn ACL, I'd believe the latter due to Bradley's track record.

You're apparently still mising the point that Bradley surely has stepped on his leg funny countless times (as you've told us all baseball players inevitably will), yet only once has it resulted in a torn ACL.

 

Sounds like that meets any reasonable definition of freak injury.

 

By that logic, every time Bradley has sufferered an injury he hasn't suffered before, it's a freak injury. He must suffer from a lot of "freak injuries", and in that case you could say he's likely to keep suffering these new "freak injuries". When someone says something was a freak injury, that generally implies it's not part of a pattern and shouldn't be considered in any kind of pattern. So if Bradley tears a tendon his finger next season (and hasn't done it in the past) while swinging a bat next season, are we just going to say "meh, it's a freak accident"?

 

It was a freak situation, not a freak injury.

 

So basically you're say that anytime a player suffers an injury that he hasn't suffered before while doing something he's done in the past, it's a freak injury?

 

Derrek Lee breaking his wrist by getting run into was a freak accident. Prior getting hit with a line drive was a freak accident. They are freak accidents because you know there is almost no chance they happen again. Bradley stepping funny on his leg could easily happen again, and based on his fragile body, could result in another similar injury. If he tore his ACL in 2010 while running the bases, would you be saying "holy crap...... that's like impossible! 2 torn acl's in the same lifetime? freaky!". No.

 

How can a torn ACL be a freak accident when athletes suffer them all the time? Have you once turned on ESPN to see them talking about an athlete who suffered a ton ACL and thought to yourself "wow, that's crazy. what are the odds of that happening? No, of course not, because it happens all the time.

Well I can certainly appreciate your efforts to escape the fatal flaw in your own logic, but when you've reached the point of calling a pitcher getting hit with a line drive a freak accident, and a 1B colliding with a baserunner a freak accident, yet still maintain that a guy getting tackled by his own manager is not, then it may be time to quit while you're behind.

 

Are you serious? I've already explained to you thatr the cirumstance was freakish, but not the actual trauma his leg suffered. Just for some reason you keep ignoring that I've admitted that and even explained it. We've already been through this. Just because the situation in which the injury occured was weird doesn't mean the actual trauma to his leg was weird. It's not like Bud Black picked him up by his leg and started spinning him around.

 

Getting restrained by Bud Black did not tear his ACL. Catching his leg awkwardly is what tore his ACL. twisting your leg a little bit funny is not a freak accident. Having a baseball hitting your elbow at over 100 MPH is a freakish.

 

You're twisting up what we're discussing here. I've already admitted that the situation was freakish, but not the actual trauma that tore his ACL. Since we're discussing his ability to stay healthy, the circumstance in which his leg got twisted up doesn't matter as much as the fact as that a simple slip of his leg, something that probably happens a lot during a full season, caused his ACL to tear.

 

In the context of this conversation, a torn ACL while slipping as your manager is holding you back is no different than a torn ACL while jumping back to the bag on a pickoff attempt and landing on your leg in the same awkward manner. It's just another example of how somewhat normal types of "trauma" put Bradley on the shelf. No he'd never twist his leg like that while being held back by a manager again, but he could easily twist is like that again by doing something normal and baseball related. I know you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

 

You're usually a good posted but for some reason you're just trying to start stuff right now.

 

The fact is that a player could twist his leg like that in any number of ways during a season. The fact that it happened in that situation isn't really relevant to what we're discussing.... which is the ability of Bradley to stay on the field.

 

You know perfectly well that Bradley twisting his leg that slightly could EASILY happen during a regular season and it wouldn't be considered a freak thing.

 

I'll say it again since you you are trying to make this into something it's not. It was a freak situation, not a freak accident.

 

Pitchers almost never get hit on the elbow with a line drive

 

Players almost never get their wrist run into by a guy going full speed

 

Players step awkwardly on their legs during a season

 

Do you really not see the difference? The first 2 clearly weren't due to a player having a tendency of being injured, aka being soft. Tearing your ACL by stepping on your leg a ittle funny could easily be the result of a fragile body.

You're still trapped by your own faulty logic.

 

The more you argue that stepping awkwardly is a common occurrence for a ballplayer, the more you reinforce that it has surely happened to Bradley many times without an injury occurring.

 

So if a particular type of trauma is suffered countless times with no adverse effects, and one time with severe effect (torn ACL), what does that prove, exactly? Not whatever you're trying to make it prove, that's for sure.

 

We've already been through this.

 

So every time Bradley suffers an injury while doing some normal baseball related activity that he hasn't suffered before, it's a freak injury? That's exactly what you're saying, and then you talk about my faulty logic. Right. The fact that he's done the same activity multiple times and this is the first time it's resulted it's an injury doesn't make it a "freak injury". I'm sorry, but that's just really dumb.

 

An athlete stepping on his leg funny is not a freak injury. If you really don't see how that is not a freak injury, then I don't know what esle I can say to you. You just keep ignoring my explanations for some reason.

[ConstableRabbit]

It's like you guy aren't reading what I'm saying.

 

Answer me this. The pressure that was put on Bradley's injury that caused the injury..... could that have easily happened during a nomral baseball related activity?

Yes, and that pressure has probably happened millions of times to thousands of players. Only one time did someone tear their ACL from it: Bradley. It's one in a million and might never happen ever again: to anyone. That's why it's a "freak" injury.

 

Just because Bradley has been on the DL for an eye contusion, strained oblique, strained quad, broken finger, etc. many times in his career doesn't mean that he's more likely to tear his ACL in an awkward way than other players.

 

There are two types of freak injury, imo:

1. Getting put into a situation that would cause anyone to get injured, but a situation that is not likely to happen. (Furcal running into Lee, Line drive off Prior's elbow)

 

2. Getting put into a situation that happens frequently and would seemingly not hurt anyone, and getting hurt from it. (Bradley's fall). Not that many players get dragged by their managers, but the actual fall itself.

 

Players who get hurt in a freak accident should not be considered "injury prone". Likewise, when an injury prone player such as Bradley gets a freak injury, you can't just chalk it up to occurring because he's injury prone.

 

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that Bradley doesn't get severely hurt doing a normal activity. I'd guess if he were to get hurt next season it would be due to not stretching or pulling something.

[davearm2]

I think we have different definitions of "freak accident". To me, a freak accident something happened that will pretty much never happen again and is just bad luck and flukey, not that it will happen again and he just won't be injured by it. I think it's the act, not what it results in. Just because it happened under a weird cirumstance doesn't mean it couldn't have happened while doing a normal baseball related activity. Stepping on your leg funny is not a freak occurence, the situation is happened in is. If I had to choose between "bad luck/freak occurance" and "fragile body" for the reason as to why it resulted in a torn ACL, I'd believe the latter due to Bradley's track record.

You're apparently still mising the point that Bradley surely has stepped on his leg funny countless times (as you've told us all baseball players inevitably will), yet only once has it resulted in a torn ACL.

 

Sounds like that meets any reasonable definition of freak injury.

 

By that logic, every time Bradley has sufferered an injury he hasn't suffered before, it's a freak injury. He must suffer from a lot of "freak injuries", and in that case you could say he's likely to keep suffering these new "freak injuries". When someone says something was a freak injury, that generally implies it's not part of a pattern and shouldn't be considered in any kind of pattern. So if Bradley tears a tendon his finger next season (and hasn't done it in the past) while swinging a bat next season, are we just going to say "meh, it's a freak accident"?

 

It was a freak situation, not a freak injury.

 

So basically you're say that anytime a player suffers an injury that he hasn't suffered before while doing something he's done in the past, it's a freak injury?

 

Derrek Lee breaking his wrist by getting run into was a freak accident. Prior getting hit with a line drive was a freak accident. They are freak accidents because you know there is almost no chance they happen again. Bradley stepping funny on his leg could easily happen again, and based on his fragile body, could result in another similar injury. If he tore his ACL in 2010 while running the bases, would you be saying "holy crap...... that's like impossible! 2 torn acl's in the same lifetime? freaky!". No.

 

How can a torn ACL be a freak accident when athletes suffer them all the time? Have you once turned on ESPN to see them talking about an athlete who suffered a ton ACL and thought to yourself "wow, that's crazy. what are the odds of that happening? No, of course not, because it happens all the time.

Well I can certainly appreciate your efforts to escape the fatal flaw in your own logic, but when you've reached the point of calling a pitcher getting hit with a line drive a freak accident, and a 1B colliding with a baserunner a freak accident, yet still maintain that a guy getting tackled by his own manager is not, then it may be time to quit while you're behind.

 

Are you serious? I've already explained to you thatr the cirumstance was freakish, but not the actual trauma his leg suffered. Just for some reason you keep ignoring that I've admitted that and even explained it. We've already been through this. Just because the situation in which the injury occured was weird doesn't mean the actual trauma to his leg was weird. It's not like Bud Black picked him up by his leg and started spinning him around.

 

Getting restrained by Bud Black did not tear his ACL. Catching his leg awkwardly is what tore his ACL. twisting your leg a little bit funny is not a freak accident. Having a baseball hitting your elbow at over 100 MPH is a freakish.

 

You're twisting up what we're discussing here. I've already admitted that the situation was freakish, but not the actual trauma that tore his ACL. Since we're discussing his ability to stay healthy, the circumstance in which his leg got twisted up doesn't matter as much as the fact as that a simple slip of his leg, something that probably happens a lot during a full season, caused his ACL to tear.

 

In the context of this conversation, a torn ACL while slipping as your manager is holding you back is no different than a torn ACL while jumping back to the bag on a pickoff attempt and landing on your leg in the same awkward manner. It's just another example of how somewhat normal types of "trauma" put Bradley on the shelf. No he'd never twist his leg like that while being held back by a manager again, but he could easily twist is like that again by doing something normal and baseball related. I know you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

 

You're usually a good posted but for some reason you're just trying to start stuff right now.

 

The fact is that a player could twist his leg like that in any number of ways during a season. The fact that it happened in that situation isn't really relevant to what we're discussing.... which is the ability of Bradley to stay on the field.

 

You know perfectly well that Bradley twisting his leg that slightly could EASILY happen during a regular season and it wouldn't be considered a freak thing.

 

I'll say it again since you you are trying to make this into something it's not. It was a freak situation, not a freak accident.

 

Pitchers almost never get hit on the elbow with a line drive

 

Players almost never get their wrist run into by a guy going full speed

 

Players step awkwardly on their legs during a season

 

Do you really not see the difference? The first 2 clearly weren't due to a player having a tendency of being injured, aka being soft. Tearing your ACL by stepping on your leg a ittle funny could easily be the result of a fragile body.

You're still trapped by your own faulty logic.

 

The more you argue that stepping awkwardly is a common occurrence for a ballplayer, the more you reinforce that it has surely happened to Bradley many times without an injury occurring.

 

So if a particular type of trauma is suffered countless times with no adverse effects, and one time with severe effect (torn ACL), what does that prove, exactly? Not whatever you're trying to make it prove, that's for sure.

 

We've already been through this.

 

So every time Bradley suffers an injury while doing some normal baseball related activity that he hasn't suffered before, it's a freak injury? That's exactly what you're saying, and then you talk about my faulty logic. Right. The fact that he's done the same activity multiple times and this is the first time it's resulted it's an injury doesn't make it a "freak injury". I'm sorry, but that's just really dumb.

 

An athlete stepping on his leg funny is not a freak injury. If you really don't see how that is not a freak injury, then I don't know what esle I can say to you. You just keep ignoring my explanations for some reason.

I haven't been ignoring your explanations. On the contrary, I've been addressing them headon and illustrating why they're nonsensical.