4/15 - Bulls (41-40) vs. Toronto (32-49) - 7 pm, CSN

[RynoRules]

Let's reel back on the anti-Semitic accusations unless it's actually obvious.

 

1) Most people don't come out and say, "I subscribe to hateful stereotypes."

 

2) I did not accuse him. I made a comment based on the fact that he is one of many people who assert that Reinsdorf is cheap in spite of incontrovertable facts.

 

That was a clear accusation and way out of line. There was no hint of anything of the sort.

 

People whine about cheap owners, they always do. Is misguided as it may be, to call it anti-semitism is asinine.

 

I disagree. Its a definite possibility in this case.

 

You can't throw out accusations like that so willy-nilly. You had no proof, there was no hint of anything anti-semitic.

 

Then please help me understand how the hell anyone could think this about Reinsdorf. Its not enough to just use the "people complain" throw-away, IMO.

[Tyrant]

I am not sure I understand - we are assailing him for being a good business man? If the teams he fields always stunk there would be an argument there, but the reason the teams are so profitable is b/c the make the playoffs (the Sox did so several times in 90's and I won't bother reminding anyone of recent history; same goes for the Bulls) and win titles (7 in total).

 

I'm talking about the Bulls here.

 

The Bulls have more money than any other team in the NBA. Yet they ranked in the bottom 10 for team payroll last year. When teams make a ton of money, and it isn't reflected on the court, fans get annoyed.

 

That's why people think he's cheap.

[jersey cubs fan]

Let's reel back on the anti-Semitic accusations unless it's actually obvious.

 

1) Most people don't come out and say, "I subscribe to hateful stereotypes."

 

2) I did not accuse him. I made a comment based on the fact that he is one of many people who assert that Reinsdorf is cheap in spite of incontrovertable facts.

 

That was a clear accusation and way out of line. There was no hint of anything of the sort.

 

People whine about cheap owners, they always do. Is misguided as it may be, to call it anti-semitism is asinine.

 

I disagree. Its a definite possibility in this case.

 

You can't throw out accusations like that so willy-nilly. You had no proof, there was no hint of anything anti-semitic.

 

Then please help me understand how the hell anyone could think this about Reinsdorf. Its not enough to just use the "people complain" throw-away, IMO.

 

So now it's my job to defend people against your asinine accusations?

 

I don't care if my explanation holds water with you, it's freaking obvious. People whine about owners' cheapness in every sport in every city. I've made several "the Trib is not cheap" arguments over the years yet people insisted they were.

[RynoRules]

 

So now it's my job to defend people against your asinine accusations?

 

 

No, I asked you to help me understand why people say he's cheap when its clear that he is not.

 

I don't care if my explanation holds water with you, it's freaking obvious. People whine about owners' cheapness in every sport in every city. I've made several "the Trib is not cheap" arguments over the years yet people insisted they were.

 

I don't think its obvious at all. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[RynoRules]

I am not sure I understand - we are assailing him for being a good business man? If the teams he fields always stunk there would be an argument there, but the reason the teams are so profitable is b/c the make the playoffs (the Sox did so several times in 90's and I won't bother reminding anyone of recent history; same goes for the Bulls) and win titles (7 in total).

 

I'm talking about the Bulls here.

 

The Bulls have more money than any other team in the NBA. Yet they ranked in the bottom 10 for team payroll last year. When teams make a ton of money, and it isn't reflected on the court, fans get annoyed.

 

That's why people think he's cheap.

 

The Bulls are more profitable than any other team for a combination of reasons (the 6 titles, the lingering Jordan effect that enhances merchandise sales, etc.), one of which may be Reinsdorf style of managing the franchise. I disagree with the assertion, but I understand the argument.

[Tyrant]

 

The Bulls are more profitable than any other team for a combination of reasons (the 6 titles, the lingering Jordan effect that enhances merchandise sales, etc.), one of which may be Reinsdorf style of managing the franchise. I disagree with the assertion, but I understand the argument.

 

Right.

 

Personally, I'm not frothing for him to spend a ton more cash, because basketball works so differently than baseball. It's harder to just spend like crazy and buy a talented roster.

 

I think I'm just more bothered by the principle of it. The only reason the Bulls have so much cash is because the greatest basketball player of all-time fell into their laps. I don't think it has much to do with Reinsdorf's skills as an owner.

[RynoRules]

 

The Bulls are more profitable than any other team for a combination of reasons (the 6 titles, the lingering Jordan effect that enhances merchandise sales, etc.), one of which may be Reinsdorf style of managing the franchise. I disagree with the assertion, but I understand the argument.

 

Right.

 

Personally, I'm not frothing for him to spend a ton more cash, because basketball works so differently than baseball. It's harder to just spend like crazy and buy a talented roster.

 

I think I'm just more bothered by the principle of it. The only reason the Bulls have so much cash is because the greatest basketball player of all-time fell into their laps. I don't think it has much to do with Reinsdorf's skills as an owner.

 

I think that may be right. Krause also did a nice job surrounding Michael with parts that made sense, and he was ahead of his time in terms of valuing long, lean, athletic, do-it-all types. But none of that works w/out Jordan, as proven by what happened when Krause tried to rebuild the team.

[Soul]

 

The Bulls are more profitable than any other team for a combination of reasons (the 6 titles, the lingering Jordan effect that enhances merchandise sales, etc.), one of which may be Reinsdorf style of managing the franchise. I disagree with the assertion, but I understand the argument.

 

Right.

 

Personally, I'm not frothing for him to spend a ton more cash, because basketball works so differently than baseball. It's harder to just spend like crazy and buy a talented roster.

 

I think I'm just more bothered by the principle of it. The only reason the Bulls have so much cash is because the greatest basketball player of all-time fell into their laps. I don't think it has much to do with Reinsdorf's skills as an owner.

 

I think that may be right. Krause also did a nice job surrounding Michael with parts that made sense, and he was ahead of his time in terms of valuing long, lean, athletic, do-it-all types. But none of that works w/out Jordan, as proven by what happened when Krause tried to rebuild the team.

 

Usually the true great players fall into someone's lap though. Who could say any different about LeBron and Cleveland? I don't see how that means Reinsdorf sucks. You could take any superstar out there. Flip a coin, change the weather on a particular day, and that player winds up somewhere else. There's always an element of chance involved.

[RynoRules]

 

The Bulls are more profitable than any other team for a combination of reasons (the 6 titles, the lingering Jordan effect that enhances merchandise sales, etc.), one of which may be Reinsdorf style of managing the franchise. I disagree with the assertion, but I understand the argument.

 

Right.

 

Personally, I'm not frothing for him to spend a ton more cash, because basketball works so differently than baseball. It's harder to just spend like crazy and buy a talented roster.

 

I think I'm just more bothered by the principle of it. The only reason the Bulls have so much cash is because the greatest basketball player of all-time fell into their laps. I don't think it has much to do with Reinsdorf's skills as an owner.

 

I think that may be right. Krause also did a nice job surrounding Michael with parts that made sense, and he was ahead of his time in terms of valuing long, lean, athletic, do-it-all types. But none of that works w/out Jordan, as proven by what happened when Krause tried to rebuild the team.

 

Usually the true great players fall into someone's lap though. Who could say any different about LeBron and Cleveland? I don't see how that means Reinsdorf sucks. You could take any superstar out there. Flip a coin, change the weather on a particular day, and that player winds up somewhere else. There's always an element of chance involved.

 

Agreed, but I never said he sucks. Its not easy to truly assess an owner's worth. At the end of the day, the best they can do is hire smart GM's and VP's to handle the franchise, saty out of their way, and allow them to spend a competitive amount of money on players. In that sense, I hold the Rooney family in high regard, as well as Jerry Buss.

[Soul]

 

The Bulls are more profitable than any other team for a combination of reasons (the 6 titles, the lingering Jordan effect that enhances merchandise sales, etc.), one of which may be Reinsdorf style of managing the franchise. I disagree with the assertion, but I understand the argument.

 

Right.

 

Personally, I'm not frothing for him to spend a ton more cash, because basketball works so differently than baseball. It's harder to just spend like crazy and buy a talented roster.

 

I think I'm just more bothered by the principle of it. The only reason the Bulls have so much cash is because the greatest basketball player of all-time fell into their laps. I don't think it has much to do with Reinsdorf's skills as an owner.

 

I think that may be right. Krause also did a nice job surrounding Michael with parts that made sense, and he was ahead of his time in terms of valuing long, lean, athletic, do-it-all types. But none of that works w/out Jordan, as proven by what happened when Krause tried to rebuild the team.

 

Usually the true great players fall into someone's lap though. Who could say any different about LeBron and Cleveland? I don't see how that means Reinsdorf sucks. You could take any superstar out there. Flip a coin, change the weather on a particular day, and that player winds up somewhere else. There's always an element of chance involved.

 

Agreed, but I never said he sucks. Its not easy to truly assess an owner's worth. At the end of the day, the best they can do is hire smart GM's and VP's to handle the franchise, saty out of their way, and allow them to spend a competitive amount of money on players. In that sense, I hold the Rooney family in high regard, as well as Jerry Buss.

 

I just think people make too big a deal over Jerry getting "lucky" with Jordan. Well, sure he did. And basically so did every other owner out there who won the draft lottery and picked up the superstar that carried them to championships.

[Derwood]

isn't the NBA salary system extremely restrictive, such that spending money becomes complicated and often detrimental to the team in the long run?

[ZMovieman]

There was an article in the Tribune that talked about the Bulls still interviewing candidates for the job. However, they mention this includes one veteran coach that no one has identified that would be surprising. My question is, if there's any truth to it (which I'm not sure if there is), who is this mystery coach?

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080530-doug-collins-chicago-bulls,1,1464921.story

[David]

isn't the NBA salary system extremely restrictive, such that spending money becomes complicated and often detrimental to the team in the long run?

 

 

Yes. Exactly.

 

 

I suppose we could have a higher payroll if we doled out some huge contracts to Ben Gordon and Luol Deng, though. Maybe a few more huge extensions so we can get high enough to pay the luxury tax. :roll:

 

 

It's not like they could be going out and signing all these big free agents. The cap won't allow it and the really good players hardly even make it to free agency anymore.

[Flames24Rulz]

There was an article in the Tribune that talked about the Bulls still interviewing candidates for the job. However, they mention this includes one veteran coach that no one has identified that would be surprising. My question is, if there's any truth to it (which I'm not sure if there is), who is this mystery coach?

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080530-doug-collins-chicago-bulls,1,1464921.story

 

Flip Saunders, perhaps?

[Andy]

There was an article in the Tribune that talked about the Bulls still interviewing candidates for the job. However, they mention this includes one veteran coach that no one has identified that would be surprising. My question is, if there's any truth to it (which I'm not sure if there is), who is this mystery coach?

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080530-doug-collins-chicago-bulls,1,1464921.story

 

Flip Saunders, perhaps?

I should hope not.

[Jehrico]

Let's reel back on the anti-Semitic accusations unless it's actually obvious.

 

1) Most people don't come out and say, "I subscribe to hateful stereotypes."

 

2) I did not accuse him. I made a comment based on the fact that he is one of many people who assert that Reinsdorf is cheap in spite of incontrovertable facts.

 

That was a clear accusation and way out of line. There was no hint of anything of the sort.

 

People whine about cheap owners, they always do. Is misguided as it may be, to call it anti-semitism is asinine.

 

I disagree. Its a definite possibility in this case.

It's also a possibility that the hatred is due to the fact that he's old. Or a man. Or caucasian. Or rich. Or that he's the owner of the Sox. Or that he comes off as extremely arrogant and stupid when he's appeared on the radio or the TV. Or, get this one...it's also a possibility that people love to play armchair GM/owner while knowing nothing that goes on behind closed doors and come to judgements that their owners/GMs suck and are cheap every time they fail to keep a superstar or bring in a big time free agent, or something like that. You'll find similar complaints against probably every owner of every franchise in every sport.

[Guest]

Wendy (Madrid): Why do the Bulls want Collins as their head coach? I thought the Bulls had one of the faster teams out there, and Collins likes to slow it down. Seems to be a pretty bad match.

 

Kevin Pelton (Basketball): Yeah, I don't see this one at all. Chicago played at the ninth-fastest pace in the NBA this season, and while Hollinger and I disagree on who is the slowest coach in recent NBA memory (my money is on Mike Fratello), Collins is certainly in the discussion.

 

To me, the pace is a relatively minor issue here. After reading Michael Lahey's book When Nothing Else Matters about Michael Jordan's time in Washington, I came away convinced that, for all Collins' Xs and Os ability and knowledge of the game, he doesn't manage players well enough to succeed as an NBA head coach. The irony here is that's exactly where Scott Skiles fell short. I'm a big believer in the importance of contrasting styles with coaching changes, so this makes no sense to me.

 

Basketball Prospectus chat

[SouthSideRyan]

I hate Jerry Reinsdorf because he's a bad human being, not cause he's cheap.

[Flames24Rulz]

This Collins thing seems to have died out anyway. Whatever. This has to be the worst coaching search that I have ever encountered.

[Soul]

This Collins thing seems to have died out anyway. Whatever. This has to be the worst coaching search that I have ever encountered.

 

It's starting to border on funny bad now. What exactly is the holdup anyway? Paxson just doesn't impress me much anymore. Remember when we were building a strong young core of players and everything was looking up? Now we've got the #1 pick in the draft, yet we're listing back & forth like a small boat in a big storm.

 

GET IT DONE ALREADY.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

This coaching search is a complete joke and smacks of Reinsdorf running interference. He has no idea what it takes to put a winning basketball team together(neither does Paxson IMO, but that is neither here nor there)..why is he involved in the coaching search(other than approving dollar amounts?)

 

I'll stop now before I get accused of being an anti-semnite again.

[Soul]

I can only hope they've actually got their act together but are just waiting for the finals to make the announcement.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

To be honest, I really don't want Collins and his slow it down approach..but still...

[David]

This coaching search is a complete joke and smacks of Reinsdorf running interference. He has no idea what it takes to put a winning basketball team together(neither does Paxson IMO, but that is neither here nor there)..why is he involved in the coaching search(other than approving dollar amounts?)

 

I'll stop now before I get accused of being an anti-semnite again.

 

Do you like Jerry Reinsdorf?

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

I love him.