Re: I Don't Get It

[C.C.]

It's clear after two straight years that this group of Cubbies are playoff chokers.

 

Now -- do you want to start over and risk sucking for another 20 years? Or would you like to continue on, be competitive in the division, but all the while knowing chances are good they will choke again when they get to the playoffs?

 

I can't decide. The regular seasons are fun with this group, but God the playoffs are just a joke.

 

What you going to do? Can't trade Sori or Fukudome. Dlee and Ram aren't going anywhere.

 

You could get rid of Demp, Theriot gone, Fuku opts to return to Japan because, well, it's clear he can't play on this level. There's a dozen things you could.

 

You eat a couple contracts, start building your minors up, go a different direction. I hope you aren't pretending there's nothing the Cubs could possibly do to change. They can, it would just be painful at first.

 

Fans aren't going to buy change for the worst and build for the future. If they make changes it better be to make the team better. All this hinges on the new owner anyway...My guess is not much will change for next year.

[Soul]

It's clear after two straight years that this group of Cubbies are playoff chokers.

 

Now -- do you want to start over and risk sucking for another 20 years? Or would you like to continue on, be competitive in the division, but all the while knowing chances are good they will choke again when they get to the playoffs?

 

I can't decide. The regular seasons are fun with this group, but God the playoffs are just a joke.

 

What you going to do? Can't trade Sori or Fukudome. Dlee and Ram aren't going anywhere.

 

You could get rid of Demp, Theriot gone, Fuku opts to return to Japan because, well, it's clear he can't play on this level. There's a dozen things you could.

 

You eat a couple contracts, start building your minors up, go a different direction. I hope you aren't pretending there's nothing the Cubs could possibly do to change. They can, it would just be painful at first.

 

Fans aren't going to buy change for the worst and build for the future. If they make changes it better be to make the team better. All this hinges on the new owner anyway...My guess is not much will change for next year.

 

Then get ready for more choking in '09!!!! w00t!

[gflore34]

This is why I don't put too much weight on statistics and analysis. It's all great stuff, and I enjoy reading the analysis that goes on here. It is one of the reasons I love this message board.

 

But I just keep in mind -- it'll likely not matter in the end with this team. There's no curse, but there's psychology. There's undue pressure -- the kind of pressure that comes from a city of millions of people, neurotically hoping for the best but deep down feeling that the worst will happen. The Cubs have to bathe in that crap for 162 games, every year. No other city knows that type of weirdness, at least not since Boston broke through. It has an effect. It neutralizes hard facts, neutralizes advantages, makes it much more difficult to "cut through" and win these big games.

 

4 infielders. 4 errors. A starting pitcher who walked 7 guys in the month of September walks 7 in a couple innings. Just something to think about. You can't put it on the stat sheet. But it's there. I'm telling you -- it has an effect, even though it can't be quantified.

 

It's going to take a team that is beyond just "better" to win in this town. It's going to take a team of guys who truly just don't care -- a team of players who are probably hateworthy and callous above all else. Perhaps a team of Mannys. Something. Some kind of shield against the weight of all this "OH NO NOT AGAIN!" or "WHY DOES THIS ALWAYS HAPPEN TO US?!?" or "THEY'LL FIND A WAY TO BLOW IT."

 

Something.

 

Alright, that's my post-traumatic stress syndrome rant. Enjoy.

 

I think you may on to something there Soul, in fact I believe your solution could work this year. If they take collective approach of screw it were out anyway lets just play - they could win Saturday night. But, more than likely it'll be the tight, squeezing saw dust out of the bats, trying as hard as physically possible approach. Which will result in more errors, poor pitching, hitting etc.

[C.C.]

It's clear after two straight years that this group of Cubbies are playoff chokers.

 

Now -- do you want to start over and risk sucking for another 20 years? Or would you like to continue on, be competitive in the division, but all the while knowing chances are good they will choke again when they get to the playoffs?

 

I can't decide. The regular seasons are fun with this group, but God the playoffs are just a joke.

 

What you going to do? Can't trade Sori or Fukudome. Dlee and Ram aren't going anywhere.

 

You could get rid of Demp, Theriot gone, Fuku opts to return to Japan because, well, it's clear he can't play on this level. There's a dozen things you could.

 

You eat a couple contracts, start building your minors up, go a different direction. I hope you aren't pretending there's nothing the Cubs could possibly do to change. They can, it would just be painful at first.

 

Fans aren't going to buy change for the worst and build for the future. If they make changes it better be to make the team better. All this hinges on the new owner anyway...My guess is not much will change for next year.

 

Then get ready for more choking in '09!!!! w00t!

 

3 times a charm?

[Tyrant]

My God, is there a lot of self pity in this thread.

 

Have some pride, people.

[Soul]

It's clear after two straight years that this group of Cubbies are playoff chokers.

 

Now -- do you want to start over and risk sucking for another 20 years? Or would you like to continue on, be competitive in the division, but all the while knowing chances are good they will choke again when they get to the playoffs?

 

I can't decide. The regular seasons are fun with this group, but God the playoffs are just a joke.

 

What you going to do? Can't trade Sori or Fukudome. Dlee and Ram aren't going anywhere.

 

You could get rid of Demp, Theriot gone, Fuku opts to return to Japan because, well, it's clear he can't play on this level. There's a dozen things you could.

 

You eat a couple contracts, start building your minors up, go a different direction. I hope you aren't pretending there's nothing the Cubs could possibly do to change. They can, it would just be painful at first.

 

Fans aren't going to buy change for the worst and build for the future. If they make changes it better be to make the team better. All this hinges on the new owner anyway...My guess is not much will change for next year.

 

Then get ready for more choking in '09!!!! w00t!

 

3 times a charm?

 

3 times a charm to win? Or 3 choke jobs is a charm to put me into an early grave?

 

LOL.

[C.C.]

My God, is there a lot of self pity in this thread.

 

Have some pride, people.

 

I wish the Cubs had some.

[JWCUB]

This is my take. Being a Cubs fan is like being so in love with a woman that you tend to overlook her flaws. I'm not talking physical flaws. Like during the regular season you get so caught up with the team and how good they are, you see the weaknesses but they are still winning. Then one day you come home from work and catch that same woman cheating on you. The Post season. You know the obvious answer is to leave her, but your so in love with her that you are willing to give her another chance. It hurts so much that you can't stand it, but you love her so much you can't dump her. In the back of your mind, you know she will cheat on you again, and break your heart, but you are willing to be heart broken for the one chance that maybe, someday, she will feel the same way about you and remain faithful. I.E. World Series Title.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If the Cubs win the division again next year, which seems likely, is there still a mad rush for tickets? They'll surely sell out, of course, but will scalping prices see a downturn?

 

How many years in a row would this happen before they stopped selling out?

[Abe Frohman]

Jeez people - this is baseball.

 

It doesn't matter anymore who did what in the season. There are 4 NL teams in this - ALL with the same chance. Head to heads don't matter anymore. Who won what doesn't matter.

 

How many WC teams have won the WS? Plenty. It's about who is playing good baseball at this point. The Cubs are not playing good baseball.

 

It's not over yet.

[C.C.]

If the Cubs win the division again next year, which seems likely, is there still a mad rush for tickets? They'll surely sell out, of course, but will scalping prices see a downturn?

 

How many years in a row would this happen before they stopped selling out?

 

It'll always sell out.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Jeez people - this is baseball.

 

It doesn't matter anymore who did what in the season. There are 4 NL teams in this - ALL with the same chance. Head to heads don't matter anymore. Who won what doesn't matter.

 

How many WC teams have won the WS? Plenty. It's about who is playing good baseball at this point. The Cubs are not playing good baseball.

 

It's not over yet.

 

There's a point where a certain level of underperformance becomes statistically improbable to the point where you have to wonder what is going on.

 

A good team losing is expected. Good teams losing by a combined score of 54-18 over eight games isn't.

[KingCubsFan]

Jeez people - this is baseball.

 

It doesn't matter anymore who did what in the season. There are 4 NL teams in this - ALL with the same chance. Head to heads don't matter anymore. Who won what doesn't matter.

 

How many WC teams have won the WS? Plenty. It's about who is playing good baseball at this point. The Cubs are not playing good baseball.

 

It's not over yet.

 

There's a point where a certain level of underperformance becomes statistically improbable to the point where you have to wonder what is going on.

 

A good team losing is expected. Good teams losing by a combined score of 54-18 over eight games isn't.

It's really not hard to see what's going on. They can't handle the pressure, period. Does Lee have a no-trade clause for next year? Zambrano?

[C.C.]

Jeez people - this is baseball.

 

It doesn't matter anymore who did what in the season. There are 4 NL teams in this - ALL with the same chance. Head to heads don't matter anymore. Who won what doesn't matter.

 

How many WC teams have won the WS? Plenty. It's about who is playing good baseball at this point. The Cubs are not playing good baseball.

 

It's not over yet.

 

There's a point where a certain level of underperformance becomes statistically improbable to the point where you have to wonder what is going on.

 

A good team losing is expected. Good teams losing by a combined score of 54-18 over eight games isn't.

It's really not hard to see what's going on. They can't handle the pressure, period. Does Lee have a no-trade clause for next year? Zambrano?

 

Huh? Z has performed well the past two years.

[KingCubsFan]

Jeez people - this is baseball.

 

It doesn't matter anymore who did what in the season. There are 4 NL teams in this - ALL with the same chance. Head to heads don't matter anymore. Who won what doesn't matter.

 

How many WC teams have won the WS? Plenty. It's about who is playing good baseball at this point. The Cubs are not playing good baseball.

 

It's not over yet.

 

There's a point where a certain level of underperformance becomes statistically improbable to the point where you have to wonder what is going on.

 

A good team losing is expected. Good teams losing by a combined score of 54-18 over eight games isn't.

It's really not hard to see what's going on. They can't handle the pressure, period. Does Lee have a no-trade clause for next year? Zambrano?

 

Huh? Z has performed well the past two years.

You're right. I was just thinking of trading him before his shoulder is officially Prior'd

[Derwood]

if Atlanta Braves were as suicidal about playoff losses as you guys are there wouldn't be any Braves fans left

[jersey cubs fan]

if Atlanta Braves were as suicidal about playoff losses as you guys are there wouldn't be any Braves fans left

 

A) There aren't many Braves fans left.

 

B) Braves fans saw a hell of a lot more playoff wins than Cubs fans, including World Series wins.

 

 

Stupid comparison.

[C.C.]

if Atlanta Braves were as suicidal about playoff losses as you guys are there wouldn't be any Braves fans left

 

A) There aren't many Braves fans left.

 

B) Braves fans saw a hell of a lot more playoff wins than Cubs fans, including World Series wins.

 

 

Stupid comparison.

 

I just was going to post the same thing. There's no comparison.

[Derwood]

if Atlanta Braves were as suicidal about playoff losses as you guys are there wouldn't be any Braves fans left

 

A) There aren't many Braves fans left.

 

B) Braves fans saw a hell of a lot more playoff wins than Cubs fans, including World Series wins.

 

 

Stupid comparison.

 

I just was going to post the same thing. There's no comparison.

 

the point is that the Cubs are built to keep winning in the regular season. There is a great chance they win the division again next year. I'll take a run of division titles and try our luck in the post season. The Braves didn't make it to the World Series in their last 6 playoff appearances. If we won 6 divisions in a row but didn't win it all would we all be crying like babies?

[jersey cubs fan]

the point is that the Cubs are built to keep winning in the regular season. There is a great chance they win the division again next year. I'll take a run of division titles and try our luck in the post season. The Braves didn't make it to the World Series in their last 6 playoff appearances. If we won 6 divisions in a row but didn't win it all would we all be crying like babies?

 

This team isn't built for the long haul. If they win 6 divisions in a row and don't win a world series, yes, people will be devastated. I like how you say you won't even watch this game, yet you are ridiculing others for being upset about the way things have gone.

[UMFan83]

if Atlanta Braves were as suicidal about playoff losses as you guys are there wouldn't be any Braves fans left

 

A) There aren't many Braves fans left.

 

B) Braves fans saw a hell of a lot more playoff wins than Cubs fans, including World Series wins.

 

 

Stupid comparison.

 

I just was going to post the same thing. There's no comparison.

 

the point is that the Cubs are built to keep winning in the regular season. There is a great chance they win the division again next year. I'll take a run of division titles and try our luck in the post season. The Braves didn't make it to the World Series in their last 6 playoff appearances. If we won 6 divisions in a row but didn't win it all would we all be crying like babies?

 

They only got swept out of the first round once in those 14 years.

[jdelaney5150]

The worst part about all of this is that I don't even know how I will get myself excited for next year or future years after that. In 98, 03, and last year we were always the underdogs and so you knew it was gonna be an uphill climb. But this year for once we were a dominating team for most of the last 6 months. I just don't know how I'm going to say to myself: "well, if everyone stays healthy and everyone plays well and everything falls into place over the course of 162 games . . ." What then? I might get the joy of watching my team act like a bunch of clowns for 3 games?

 

But of course I'll be back. Because I'm an idiot.

[rynefan]

Force yourself to be drawn to the Rays

 

Funny you should mention the Rays. I was watching that game Thursday and couldn't believe the difference in watching them vs. watching the Cubs... the fire, the quickness, the excitement to make a differenence... TO MAKE A PLAY! I see none of that in the playoffs for the Cubs. They seem flat and totally uninterested. Maybe this 100-year drought is only big to the fans because we were there years ago and will (possibly) be there years from now, when most of them will be long gone. I don't know, but that team out there lately sure isn't the Cubs.

[Andy]

I have all the belief in the world we can win the next three games, but if we don't I'm not confident at all in 2009. Derrek Lee is not a good hitter anymore, certainly not for a first baseman. Theriot's magic might be up. Edmonds and Dempster have no chance to repeat last season if they're even Cubs at all. Reed might not either. Fukudome is all but done. Soriano is injury-prone (I don't believe in curses but it's pretty ridiculous this was never the case prior to two weeks into his Cubs career). DeRosa won't repeat this year. Harden is still a health risk, as is Wood. Never know what to expect from Marmol and Z because of overuse (though I'm not as worried about Z as I once was). There's a lot that could go wrong this year. Soto and Aramis are the only guys I'm stone cold confident in for 09.

[weis21]

I have all the belief in the world we can win the next three games, but if we don't I'm not confident at all in 2009. Derrek Lee is not a good hitter anymore, certainly not for a first baseman. Theriot's magic might be up. Edmonds and Dempster have no chance to repeat last season if they're even Cubs at all. Reed might not either. Fukudome is all but done. Soriano is injury-prone (I don't believe in curses but it's pretty ridiculous this was never the case prior to two weeks into his Cubs career). DeRosa won't repeat this year. Harden is still a health risk, as is Wood. Never know what to expect from Marmol and Z because of overuse (though I'm not as worried about Z as I once was). There's a lot that could go wrong this year. Soto and Aramis are the only guys I'm stone cold confident in for 09.

Yeah, but it's really a moot point until the new owner is announced and we see what kind of spending will be done and moves will be made.

 

I REALLY hope Hendry can sell high on Theriot this winter, I don't think he'll match his numbers in 2009. I'm sure it won't happen though.

 

If Dempster gets the money I think he will, I'll be happy he's gone. Also, you have Gaudin, Shark, and possibly Hill around to take Dempster's spot. Not great really, but thats only if we don't acquire another.