Cubs Talking About Greene?

[TheDude]

Am I the only one that clicked the link in this thread and didn't get anything?

No, it's a bad url at this point. Sometimes happens with online news articles if/when they move them. It may have been a good link at the time it was put up.

[SCCubbieFAN]

so what exactly did the blog article say and who wrote it? anyone with any credibility or just someone stating an opinion?

[RammyFanny]

so what exactly did the blog article say and who wrote it? anyone with any credibility or just someone stating an opinion?

 

Said we had contacted them recently but were rebuffed because the Padres don't want to sell low. Mentioned no names.

[wrigley23]

Greene blows. He is Alex Gonzalez w/ long hair...the wrong Alex Gonzalez.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't think there is a "right" when it comes to an Alex Gonzalez.

[Jehrico]

Greene blows. He is Alex Gonzalez w/ long hair...the wrong Alex Gonzalez.

Except for the fact that he's in the conversation of best defensive SS in the game, and he normally posts above average OPSs for his position every year before this one in one of the worst hitters parks in the league. But yeah, he blows.

[javy knows my name]

If Alex Gonzalez is wrong, I don't want to be right

[Kid Gleason]

There's no way to say for sure, but I what sort of effect Gene Clynes have on a guy like Greene. Based on what he has done for the plate patience of some of the other players it would be good to see the Cubs buy low and and acquire Greene and see what they can do with him. It would be a nice insurance policy as has been said.

[Kid Gleason]

Sorry gang, I meant Gerald Perry. I was a wee bit under the influence when I posted yesterday. :shock:

[Clem Fandango]

Greene blows. He is Alex Gonzalez w/ long hair...the wrong Alex Gonzalez.

 

Actually, his real name is Jeff Spicoli

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/alisun21/AAGP175Khalil-Greene-2005-Studio-Pl.jpg

 

http://www.bordertownonline.com/images/spicoli.jpg

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Greene blows. He is Alex Gonzalez w/ long hair...the wrong Alex Gonzalez.

 

Hmm, let's look at the fallacy of this statement...

 

Khalil Greene

age 25 - 250/296/431( 259 EqA)

age 26- 245/320/427 (268 EqA)

age 27- 254/291/468 (272 EqA)

career- 249/305/427 (262 EqA)

 

Alex Gonzalez

age 25- 239/281/361 (233 EqA)

age 26- 292/370/416 ((271 EqA)

age 27- 252/313/404 (242 EqA)

career- 243/302/391 (243 EqA)

 

Comparing the two, shows Greene is a but better than Gonzalez was. Now if you want to characterize them both as low batting average, low slugging, good fielders with a little pop then that's probably an accurate generalization. The difference is Greene is better at that than Gonzalez was. Comparing them is like saying Juan Pierre is another Ced Landrum. The skill sets are the same, but Pierre got more out of his than Landrum did.

[RynoRules]

Greene blows. He is Alex Gonzalez w/ long hair...the wrong Alex Gonzalez.

 

Actually, his real name is Jeff Spicoli

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/alisun21/AAGP175Khalil-Greene-2005-Studio-Pl.jpg

 

http://www.bordertownonline.com/images/spicoli.jpg

 

AWESOME!!! TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!

[Derwood]

Greene blows. He is Alex Gonzalez w/ long hair...the wrong Alex Gonzalez.

stats

 

you know better than to use stuff like EqA with wrigley23.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Greene blows. He is Alex Gonzalez w/ long hair...the wrong Alex Gonzalez.

stats

 

you know better than to use stuff like EqA with wrigley23.

 

I try to treat everyone equally.

[inari]

Greene blows. He is Alex Gonzalez w/ long hair...the wrong Alex Gonzalez.

stats

 

you know better than to use stuff like EqA with wrigley23.

 

I try to treat everyone equally.

 

There's your first mistake.

[nilodnayr]

From 2004-2007, Greene put up away sOPS+'s of 136, 108, 128, and 123. That's about 1,100 plate appearances.

 

Anyway, you don't have to dismiss half the sample. He has a career .262 EqA and plays solid defense. That's a good shortstop even if there's nothing going on that a park adjustment doesn't account for.

 

I don't remember who to apply the credit to, Meph or TT, but one of them provided a spray chart that showed a lot of Khalil Greene's fly balls at Petco to be home runs at Wrigley for the 2007 season. Obviously, each home run nullifies an out, which in turn improves his OBP, AVG and SLG. I'll take a quick look at his splits to see what visiting parks he's played in so far to see if a lot of them are more neutral than the one's he's yet to visit.

 

Only 17 games have been at what I would call hitter friendly parks (Jacobs, Wrigley, MinuteMaid, Chase, Citizen's Bank), and he didn't play all that well there, either.

 

There might be a little truth to a loss of intensity considering how horribly the Padres have been as a team this year. I'm not sure what to make of that, but the Cubs aren't playing poorly, so it probably wouldn't be a concern.

 

As bad as he's been, I still like what he offers defensively and in power. Last year, he had 7 HR's at NL Central ballparks (at least one at each park) in 20 games.

 

 

Actually, that was me, but I just provided links, one of them might have made pretty charts. And actually, once again, PETCO is destroying him this year. Hes hit a ton to the warning track that would be long gone in Wrigley. He'd probably have another 6-9 HRs in the first half alone if his home park was Wrigley.

 

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=425867&statType=1

 

I completely agree with not throwing out half of his stats but adjusting them appropriately. However, in doing so, you have to realize that Greene is going to be penalized (as a fly ball hitter) by PETCO more than other players, so his adjustment should be much more than just some park factor.

 

Other points...anyone who wanted him going into this season should still want him. A half of a year of stats doesn't show a change in true talent. Also someone said Toronto was a good pitchers park...far far far from it. Toronto is heaven for right handed power hitters. Off the top of my head it inflates righties HRs by 30%.

 

I applaud the cubs for going after Greene this year and hope that this offseason they resume talks.

[sneakypower]

Actually, that was me, but I just provided links, one of them might have made pretty charts. And actually, once again, PETCO is destroying him this year. Hes hit a ton to the warning track that would be long gone in Wrigley. He'd probably have another 6-9 HRs in the first half alone if his home park was Wrigley.

i'd wager pitchers would approach him differently if he had a park where he showed the propensity for hitting balls into the seats. if you're pitching in the Polo Grounds (with a decent CF), you'll probably try to induce guys into hitting flyballs into CF and won't care much if they go 400+ feet. i guess i'm saying i don't completely buy that you can just pick him up and move him into Wrigley and he'll be pitched to the same way.

[rocket]

greene would have made that play in the 2003 nlcs.

 

GET HIM

[Mizzou]

Greene has sucked at home this year, and he's even been worse on the road (.212/.228/.298/.526).

 

No thanks.

[AlwaysaCub]

greene would have made that play in the 2003 nlcs.

 

GET HIM

 

Do you think anyone was making that play, if only for the moment?

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't think there is a "right" when it comes to an Alex Gonzalez.

 

It's like when people tried to force one of the Bobby Joneses to be the good Bobby Jones.

[CoolHandLuke]

A half of a year of stats doesn't show a change in true talent.

 

 

THIS.

[RedFlash]

I don't think there is a "right" when it comes to an Alex Gonzalez.

 

It's like when people tried to force one of the Bobby Joneses to be the good Bobby Jones.

 

The only good Bobby Jones, was the PGA HOFer...

[nilodnayr]

Actually, that was me, but I just provided links, one of them might have made pretty charts. And actually, once again, PETCO is destroying him this year. Hes hit a ton to the warning track that would be long gone in Wrigley. He'd probably have another 6-9 HRs in the first half alone if his home park was Wrigley.

i'd wager pitchers would approach him differently if he had a park where he showed the propensity for hitting balls into the seats. if you're pitching in the Polo Grounds (with a decent CF), you'll probably try to induce guys into hitting flyballs into CF and won't care much if they go 400+ feet. i guess i'm saying i don't completely buy that you can just pick him up and move him into Wrigley and he'll be pitched to the same way.

 

It'd be interesting to see if the SD pitchers induced more flyballs at home than they do on the road, but I don't know of anywhere where you can find splits on batted ball data. My guess is that there might be a slight slight variation, but its not like a pitcher has the ability to go from a GB pitcher to a FB pitcher or visa versa. If they DID have that ability, most likely it would come along with amazing control and a great repetoire of pitches and he'd be a ridiculously amazing pitcher regardless of what stadium hes in.

[nilodnayr]

A half of a year of stats doesn't show a change in true talent.

 

 

THIS.

 

Yeah, it seems like a lot of people don't get that point.

 

Also, his BABIP is 60 points lower than his LD% would indicate, and as we already mentioned, because of his park and his FB tendency, a lot of HRs turn into outs which hurts him even more. It appears as though this year, its hurting him more than others.

 

He is swinging at more pitches out of the zone, but thats probably a slippery slope when you start slumping.