The Rich Harden/Tim Hudson Trade Thread

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Time to kill this thread unless we still think Jimbo can land Hudson too.

 

Kidding aside, does anyone think that the Cubs could at this point? Adding Hudson to the mix would be amazing.

 

I don't think we'll make a splash with someone like Hudson, no.

 

I think a lower option like Wolf or Maddux could happen. I think we might add to the bullpen by getting into the mix for Fuentes. Other than that, I think we're set.

[sweetpeteman]

Time to kill this thread unless we still think Jimbo can land Hudson too.

 

Kidding aside, does anyone think that the Cubs could at this point? Adding Hudson to the mix would be amazing.

 

I don't think we'll make a splash with someone like Hudson, no.

 

I think a lower option like Wolf or Maddux could happen. I think we might add to the bullpen by getting into the mix for Fuentes. Other than that, I think we're set.

 

I would rather we let Marshall pitch over going for Wolf or Maddux. Hopefully Hill keeps going and gets back, making this completely mute if Marshall can't keep it going. Hudson would be great, but unlikely at this point, as I don't know who Atlanta would want. It probably would start with Pie and Veal.

[mdwilla]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

[Outshined_One]

I think getting Hudson is doable, but it depends on what the Braves' demands are. It also depends on whether Hendry thinks the rotation is set.

[Mizzou]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

[USSoccer]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

 

Why does no one seem to see that Marquis is actually better than Maddux?

[Mizzou]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

 

Why does no one seem to see that Marquis is actually better than Maddux?

Because he's not.

[USSoccer]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

 

Why does no one seem to see that Marquis is actually better than Maddux?

Because he's not.

 

Based on what exactly? Putting Maddux in a division with parks that trend heavily towards hitters parks in August isn't exactly a sound decision.

 

Marquis sucks, no doubt, but Maddux's numbers this season are influenced by the parks in that division.

[NCCubFan]

Oakland is only 5 or 6 games behind LA... Are we sure they'll be selling?

Um, yes, we are sure. :D

[Mizzou]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

 

Why does no one seem to see that Marquis is actually better than Maddux?

Because he's not.

 

Based on what exactly? Putting Maddux in a division with parks that trend heavily towards hitters parks in August isn't exactly a sound decision.

 

Marquis sucks, no doubt, but Maddux's numbers this season are influenced by the parks in that division.

Based on everything. Maddux has a better ERA, better WHIP, fewer walks, more K's, and a better ERA+.

 

What exactly are you basing your statement that Marquis is better on?

[SouthSideRyan]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

 

Why does no one seem to see that Marquis is actually better than Maddux?

Because he's not.

 

Based on what exactly? Putting Maddux in a division with parks that trend heavily towards hitters parks in August isn't exactly a sound decision.

 

Marquis sucks, no doubt, but Maddux's numbers this season are influenced by the parks in that division.

Based on everything. Maddux has a better ERA, better WHIP, fewer walks, more K's, and a better ERA+.

 

What exactly are you basing your statement that Marquis is better on?

 

Top of my head calculations,('07x2, '08x1) Marquis has roughly an equal ERA+ to Maddux the past 2 seasons.

[Mizzou]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

 

Why does no one seem to see that Marquis is actually better than Maddux?

Because he's not.

 

Based on what exactly? Putting Maddux in a division with parks that trend heavily towards hitters parks in August isn't exactly a sound decision.

 

Marquis sucks, no doubt, but Maddux's numbers this season are influenced by the parks in that division.

Based on everything. Maddux has a better ERA, better WHIP, fewer walks, more K's, and a better ERA+.

 

What exactly are you basing your statement that Marquis is better on?

 

Top of my head calculations,('07x2, '08x1) Marquis has roughly an equal ERA+ to Maddux the past 2 seasons.

Convenient that you're just looking at the last two years.

 

Marquis ERA+

06: 74

07: 101

08: 94

 

Maddux ERA+

06: 109

07: 98

08: 100

 

They've been close the last two years combined, but in no way has Marquis been better. And if you look at three year splits, they're nowhere near.

[nilodnayr]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

 

Why does no one seem to see that Marquis is actually better than Maddux?

Because he's not.

 

Based on what exactly? Putting Maddux in a division with parks that trend heavily towards hitters parks in August isn't exactly a sound decision.

 

Marquis sucks, no doubt, but Maddux's numbers this season are influenced by the parks in that division.

Based on everything. Maddux has a better ERA, better WHIP, fewer walks, more K's, and a better ERA+.

 

What exactly are you basing your statement that Marquis is better on?

 

Top of my head calculations,('07x2, '08x1) Marquis has roughly an equal ERA+ to Maddux the past 2 seasons.

Convenient that you're just looking at the last two years.

 

Marquis ERA+

06: 74

07: 101

08: 94

 

Maddux ERA+

06: 109

07: 98

08: 100

 

They've been close the last two years combined, but in no way has Marquis been better. And if you look at three year splits, they're nowhere near.

 

ERA is a pretty dumb stat to evaluate a pitcher because theres a lot of luck in ERA. Park factors are pretty crappy, so combine the two and ERA+ isn't great. FIP would be a better stat to use to compare the two (there are better, but its a good simple one).

 

Marquis FIP

06: 5.90

07: 4.99

08: 4.36

 

Maddux FIP

06: 3.80

07: 3.58

08: 3.93

[SouthSideRyan]

Brainfart is FIP park-adjusted?

[nilodnayr]

Brainfart is FIP park-adjusted?

 

Nope.

 

(HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)*3-K*2)/IP + League Specific Constant

[CubinNY]

Brainfart is FIP park-adjusted?

 

Nope.

 

(HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)*3-K*2)/IP + League Specific Constant

Park factors are over played by most people anyway. The numbers for most parks outside of a few severe outliers are about the same (i.e., very small SD overall).

[JeffH]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

 

Is this true, or are you doing a bit?

[JeffH]

The odd thing about Maddux's 2008 stat line is that he's given up more HR at home than on the road.

 

Regardless, for some strange reason, he's been unbelievably hard to hit overall at Petco so far this season.

 

Does Petco suppress hits in general that much, or is this more likely just a fluke?

[Mizzou]

I really think we could still see a Marquis with us eating some cash going to the Padres for Maddux. We might have to throw in a low level prospect to get it done which I have no problem with.

Has the fact that Gary Hughes was at Petco Park watching Maddux pitch last night been discussed anywhere?

 

Is this true, or are you doing a bit?

It's true, it was in a San Diego newspaper yesterday. I don't know if he was there specifically to watch Maddux, but he was there.

[Soul]

The odd thing about Maddux's 2008 stat line is that he's given up more HR at home than on the road.

 

Regardless, for some strange reason, he's been unbelievably hard to hit overall at Petco so far this season.

 

Does Petco suppress hits in general that much, or is this more likely just a fluke?

 

It's Petco. I love Mad Dog, but I don't think he would be much help for us over what we already have at the back of the rotation.