The Rich Harden/Tim Hudson Trade Thread

[CubsGM]

Because it had to be made.

 

Please Hendry.

Edited July 8, 2008 by CubsGM

[Yanksfan1523]

Beane will want the world.

[PrimeTime]

Lets call it the Tim Hudson/Rich Harden thread....Hendry needs to go balls out and not settle for mediocre crap like Wolf...They want two lefties in the rotation? Thats fine.. Marshall at the 5 spot is more than fine with me,as I'm sure with you guys..Get Marquis out and get our number two guy whether its Harden/Hudson/Burnett

[SABR Gamer]

Lets call it the Tim Hudson/Rich Harden thread....Hendry needs to go balls out and not settle for mediocre crap like Wolf...They want two lefties in the rotation? Thats fine.. Marshall at the 5 spot is more than fine with me,as I'm sure with you guys..Get Marquis out and get our number two guy whether its Harden/Hudson/Burnett

 

 

No to Burnett. Hudson or Harden, period.

 

About the bold, Rich Hill. He's a better pitcher than Marshall and seems to be finally figuring things out. I don't know about you guys, but a rotation of:

 

Zambrano

Harden/Hudson

Lilly

Dempster

Hill

 

makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, that's an amazing rotation.

Edited July 8, 2008 by New York Cubs Fan

[RedFlash]

About the bold, Rich Hill. He's a better pitcher than Marshall and seems to be finally figuring things out. I don't know about you guys, but a rotation of:

 

At this point in their careers, Marshall and Hill are comparable pitchers, with a slight edge to Hill, but not enough to say he is a "better pitcher."

 

Hill's career: 4.37era 1.268whip with a 106 ERA+ in 57 starts

Marshall's careers: 4.76era 1.445whip with a 97ERA+ in 46 starts

 

So again, the numbers slightly give Hill the edge, but he isn't a "significant edge" to a point you keep Hill, and trade Marshall. So if Oakland or Atlant wants to buy low on Rich Hill (for either Hudson or Harden), I would have no problem moving Hill in the deal. Same with Marshall.

 

And yes, a rotation of:

 

Z

Hudson/Harden

Lilly

Dempster

Hill/Marshall

 

Would be sweet, and would be significantly better then the Brewers 3-4-5.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Judging by the 38 threads, Im going to go out on a limb and say that the Cubs are interested in Rich Harden.

[Tyrant]

Lets call it the Tim Hudson/Rich Harden thread....Hendry needs to go balls out and not settle for mediocre crap like Wolf...They want two lefties in the rotation? Thats fine.. Marshall at the 5 spot is more than fine with me,as I'm sure with you guys..Get Marquis out and get our number two guy whether its Harden/Hudson/Burnett

 

 

No to Burnett, Hudson or Harden, period.

 

About the bold, Rich Hill. He's a better pitcher than Marshall and seems to be finally figuring things out. I don't know about you guys, but a rotation of:

 

I'm not sure if a few good innings against some 18-year-olds means he has figured it out.

[Old Style]

We can't afford to count on Rich Hill for the stretch. We need to add somebody (be it Harden, Hudson or Burnett) before the deadline.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Timmy Hudson please.

[Warpticon]

At this point in their careers, Marshall and Hill are comparable pitchers, with a slight edge to Hill, but not enough to say he is a "better pitcher."

 

Hill's career: 4.37era 1.268whip with a 106 ERA+ in 57 starts

Marshall's careers: 4.76era 1.445whip with a 97ERA+ in 46 starts

 

Wait, what? You realize those numbers aren't even close to each other, right?

[javy knows my name]

At this point in their careers, Marshall and Hill are comparable pitchers, with a slight edge to Hill, but not enough to say he is a "better pitcher."

 

Hill's career: 4.37era 1.268whip with a 106 ERA+ in 57 starts

Marshall's careers: 4.76era 1.445whip with a 97ERA+ in 46 starts

 

Wait, what? You realize those numbers aren't even close to each other, right?

Wow yeah Marshall's WHIP is Marquis/Zito-bad

[jersey cubs fan]

At this point in their careers, Marshall and Hill are comparable pitchers, with a slight edge to Hill, but not enough to say he is a "better pitcher."

 

Hill's career: 4.37era 1.268whip with a 106 ERA+ in 57 starts

Marshall's careers: 4.76era 1.445whip with a 97ERA+ in 46 starts

 

Wait, what? You realize those numbers aren't even close to each other, right?

 

Yes, but that doesn't mean Hill is "better" per se, his ERA may be a hell of a lot "lower", and the WHIP are completely "different", but all things being "equal" they are the "same" and none is "better" than the "other".

[anabiono]

At this point in their careers, Marshall and Hill are comparable pitchers, with a slight edge to Hill, but not enough to say he is a "better pitcher."

 

Hill's career: 4.37era 1.268whip with a 106 ERA+ in 57 starts

Marshall's careers: 4.76era 1.445whip with a 97ERA+ in 46 starts

 

Wait, what? You realize those numbers aren't even close to each other, right?

 

Yes, but that doesn't mean Hill is "better" per se, his ERA may be a hell of a lot "lower", and the WHIP are completely "different", but all things being "equal" they are the "same" and none is "better" than the "other".

 

whoa...i am not one of the "Hill can do no wrong" folks on here, but holy crap man...i have seen hill on his game and it is nasty, marshall is good, but hill can and has been dominant...

[inari]

At this point in their careers, Marshall and Hill are comparable pitchers, with a slight edge to Hill, but not enough to say he is a "better pitcher."

 

Hill's career: 4.37era 1.268whip with a 106 ERA+ in 57 starts

Marshall's careers: 4.76era 1.445whip with a 97ERA+ in 46 starts

 

Wait, what? You realize those numbers aren't even close to each other, right?

 

Yes, but that doesn't mean Hill is "better" per se, his ERA may be a hell of a lot "lower", and the WHIP are completely "different", but all things being "equal" they are the "same" and none is "better" than the "other".

 

whoa...i am not one of the "Hill can do no wrong" folks on here, but holy crap man...i have seen hill on his game and it is nasty, marshall is good, but hill can and has been dominant...

 

That's a very large sarchasm right there.

[Hosak8]

No to Burnett, Hudson or Harden, period.

I don't know about you guys, but a rotation of:

 

Zambrano

Harden/Hudson

Lilly

Dempster

Hill

 

makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, that's an amazing rotation.

 

Make up your mind.

[gflore34]

Given Harden had some health issues, I wonder if that'll bring his price tag down? If so, a rotation of:

Zambrano

Harden

Lilley

Dempster

Marshall (hopefully, Lou in his desire for two LHP will place Marquis in long relief) coupled with the Cubs pen looks pretty damn good.

[anabiono]

At this point in their careers, Marshall and Hill are comparable pitchers, with a slight edge to Hill, but not enough to say he is a "better pitcher."

 

Hill's career: 4.37era 1.268whip with a 106 ERA+ in 57 starts

Marshall's careers: 4.76era 1.445whip with a 97ERA+ in 46 starts

 

Wait, what? You realize those numbers aren't even close to each other, right?

 

Yes, but that doesn't mean Hill is "better" per se, his ERA may be a hell of a lot "lower", and the WHIP are completely "different", but all things being "equal" they are the "same" and none is "better" than the "other".

 

whoa...i am not one of the "Hill can do no wrong" folks on here, but holy crap man...i have seen hill on his game and it is nasty, marshall is good, but hill can and has been dominant...

 

That's a very large sarchasm right there.

 

sarchasm? whatever...i guess we are both still sleepy

[Banedon]

No to Burnett, Hudson or Harden, period.

I don't know about you guys, but a rotation of:

 

Zambrano

Harden/Hudson

Lilly

Dempster

Hill

 

makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, that's an amazing rotation.

 

Make up your mind.

 

It was bad punctuation. I believe it was intended to be like this:

 

No to Burnett. Hudson or Harden, period.

[rawaction]

A trade for Rich Harden would be akin to the trade for Aramis Ramirez. Like Ramirez, Harden is in his pre-to-early prime years. He's had a ton of ML success, but not enough (due to injuries) to make him a legitimate superstar as his potential suggests, though admittedly, he's real close. Harden, however, will in no way come as cheaply as Ramirez did, because he doesn't have an escalating price tag or a [expletive] GM. Fair or not, large market teams like the Cubs should take advantage of teams that can't afford to pay their elite players long-term. Boston did it to get Beckett. Detroit did it to get Cabrera. This is exactly the type of move the Cubs need to make. He's not a rental like Sabathia. He's not past his prime like Hudson. He's not a headcase like Bedard. He's not a Jekyll/Hyde like Burnett has been. Harden would help the Cubs be perennial contenders for the near future. He'd not only help them this year, but is another guy to build around for 09 and 2010.

 

I mentioned Beckett and Cabrera earlier. Both of those guys came at the expense of a couple of star prospects. Cubs don't have a Hanley Ramirez or Cameron Maybin, though. It would take quite a bit to pry away Harden, but I think it would be worth it. But the Cubs may be looking at giving up 2 or 3 of Vitters, Hill, Pie, Colvin.

[Joe_Cub]

sign me up.

 

you don't think they'd want a gallagher or marshall?

[gflore34]

A trade for Rich Harden would be akin to the trade for Aramis Ramirez. Like Ramirez, Harden is in his pre-to-early prime years. He's had a ton of ML success, but not enough (due to injuries) to make him a legitimate superstar as his potential suggests, though admittedly, he's real close. Harden, however, will in no way come as cheaply as Ramirez did, because he doesn't have an escalating price tag or a [expletive] GM. Fair or not, large market teams like the Cubs should take advantage of teams that can't afford to pay their elite players long-term. Boston did it to get Beckett. Detroit did it to get Cabrera. This is exactly the type of move the Cubs need to make. He's not a rental like Sabathia. He's not past his prime like Hudson. He's not a headcase like Bedard. He's not a Jekyll/Hyde like Burnett has been. Harden would help the Cubs be perennial contenders for the near future. He'd not only help them this year, but is another guy to build around for 09 and 2010.

 

I mentioned Beckett and Cabrera earlier. Both of those guys came at the expense of a couple of star prospects. Cubs don't have a Hanley Ramirez or Cameron Maybin, though. It would take quite a bit to pry away Harden, but I think it would be worth it. But the Cubs may be looking at giving up 2 or 3 of Vitters, Hill, Pie, Colvin.

 

 

Done

[Banedon]

But the Cubs may be looking at giving up 2 or 3 of Vitters, Hill, Pie, Colvin.

 

Gotta do it.

[GaborBako]

First, I enjoyed how "close" Marshall and Hill's stats apparently were even though Hill had the clear edge in all four categories.

 

As for Rich Harden, here is why Billy Beane a) won't ask for the farm for him and b) why he's willing to trade him even if the A's are on the fringes of contention.

 

He started his career making 51 straight starts. Since, he's only made 38 starts in just over three full seasons now and his 11 straight start streak that he currently has is his longest.

 

He was on the DL twice in 2005, once in 2006 (for most of the season) twice last year and once already this year.

 

Only two of those were for non-arm related injuries (oblique strain and this year's pulled muscle under his arm).

 

He has had Tommy John surgery and has a slightly torn rotator cuff.

 

He's a talent, but one that comes with a big red flashing light on him. He's complained of a dead arm after each of his last two starts.

 

Every pitcher is a risk, but Harden's riskier than just about any.

[CubinNY]

First, I enjoyed how "close" Marshall and Hill's stats apparently were even though Hill had the clear edge in all four categories.

 

As for Rich Harden, here is why Billy Beane a) won't ask for the farm for him and b) why he's willing to trade him even if the A's are on the fringes of contention.

 

He started his career making 51 straight starts. Since, he's only made 38 starts in just over three full seasons now and his 11 straight start streak that he currently has is his longest.

 

He was on the DL twice in 2005, once in 2006 (for most of the season) twice last year and once already this year.

 

Only two of those were for non-arm related injuries (oblique strain and this year's pulled muscle under his arm).

 

He has had Tommy John surgery and has a slightly torn rotator cuff.

 

He's a talent, but one that comes with a big red flashing light on him. He's complained of a dead arm after each of his last two starts.

 

Every pitcher is a risk, but Harden's riskier than just about any.

Even knowing the risks, he'd be the first guy I want the Cubs to get. I don't know if the Cubs have anything Beane would want though. I don't think Vitters can be traded yet? Pie and Colvin have little value at this point. I'd guess he might want Donaldson (is he tradeable?) and he'd surely want Sean G. The Shark might be interesting, but I just don't think Beane would want anyone outside of Sean. None of those name equate to "getting special".

[fromthestretch]

At this point in their careers, Marshall and Hill are comparable pitchers, with a slight edge to Hill, but not enough to say he is a "better pitcher."

 

Hill's career: 4.37era 1.268whip with a 106 ERA+ in 57 starts

Marshall's careers: 4.76era 1.445whip with a 97ERA+ in 46 starts

 

Wait, what? You realize those numbers aren't even close to each other, right?

 

Yes, but that doesn't mean Hill is "better" per se, his ERA may be a hell of a lot "lower", and the WHIP are completely "different", but all things being "equal" they are the "same" and none is "better" than the "other".

 

whoa...i am not one of the "Hill can do no wrong" folks on here, but holy crap man...i have seen hill on his game and it is nasty, marshall is good, but hill can and has been dominant...

 

That's a very large sarchasm right there.

 

sarchasm? whatever...i guess we are both still sleepy

 

See my sig for a definition.