Re: 6/14 Cubs (Marquis) @ BlueJays (Halladay) 12:07CT CSN

[anabiono]

wow...awesome win today...very unexpected...

 

good job jason and everybody else

 

we have to face jesse litch tomorrow who is a friend of my ex-girlfriend (who is a whore)

 

so...you know what that means...

 

DEVOUR HIM CUBS!!!

 

FOR ME

 

:cool:

[Little Slide Rooter]

Nice game. Interesting how the majority of the damage came from Fontenot, Blanco, Cedeno, and Johnson. I hope we can see more of this Marquis. Marmol showed us why Lou doesnt trust anyone else in the pen in a sticky situation, and a special congrats to Bob Howry. Theres nothing harder to do than hang on to a 5 run lead in the 9th, but he came through.

[Keener98]

That at bat is why Marmol pitched in the 8th.

Totally unrelated

 

For someone who just called out Howry, you should see the relation

 

No there is no relation at all. Its a differet point in the game. I wasnt clamoring for Howry last inning. But if you think just because Howry gave up a triple there, then he would have if he was brought in in the 8th, then I dont know what to tell you.

 

Quit taking it so literal. Nobody saying he would have given up a triple. They are saying he was a lot more likely to give up a hit compared to Marmol.

 

Like I said you had a 6 run lead, even if they give up a grand slam you still have a 2 run lead with nobody on. Ive backed off my statement regarding Marmol a little since Ive learned he had only thrown 2 innings. However, to say the triple Howry gave up is why Marmol was brought in is unrelated, and irrelevant.

 

I think the Cubs should put Marmol in a glass case in the dugout and admire him for the rest of year while guys like Leiber, Howry and others blow baseball games. Not saying he should pitch every day, but my God, this is not Dusty-like abuse.

 

No you are right this is goes beyond Dustylike abuse. Marmol was on pace to pitch 100 innings out of the bullpen as of like a week or 2 ago. Thats un chartered territory for about any reliever EVER

[TMan92]

Ok guys. Enough bickering. Great win today and Marquis did a great job.

[gflore34]

Cubs win!

 

4 game lead.

 

It'll be 4.5 after tonight - there's no reason the Phillies shouldn't smack the Cardinals again.

[Keener98]

Well, lets hope Lilly can keep it in the park tomorrow. Go Philly

[TruffleShuffle]

Oh my what an awful lineup.

 

Johnson is hitting .232 .291 .303 .594 against righties...and HES LEADING OFF? That's 0-4 right there.

 

and we have a loser

[TMan92]

Interesting facts:

 

Marmol's last 7 appearances have had him come into the game in the middle of an inning with runners on, and only twice has Lou pitched him to more than 1 batter the next inning (and one of those was the 3 run homer game that was the start and probably likely impetus for this stretch).

Marmol's turned into the fireman instead of the 8th inning guy for the most part now, and I applaud that change.

 

I almost cannot believe that if you asked me would I take Marquis's season so far over the next 3 1/2 months would I take it, and I would very quickly say yes. Marquis is playing the part of an average starter very well so far. Avoid the disaster starts, spray in a couple gems, and have the rest of the starts be questionable. His ERA+ moved back over the 100 mark today.

 

Nice to see Lee have a very good game today. His bat will be crucial these next 2 weeks as the Cubs experiment to find the best combination at 2B/LF.

 

Overall, just a very nice game. We rested some starters and got a win. Anytime you can do that, you're killing two birds with one stone.

 

Nice post....as usual.

[Shavo]

Yeah, it is. (reffering to Marmol's abuse not being Dusty-like) Edited June 14, 2008 by Shavo

[Keener98]

Cubs win!

 

4 game lead.

 

It'll be 4.5 after tonight - there's no reason the Phillies shouldn't smack the Cardinals again.

 

Philly is throwing Adam Eaton, dont count your chickens yet.

[CubColtPacer]

That at bat is why Marmol pitched in the 8th.

Totally unrelated

 

For someone who just called out Howry, you should see the relation

 

No there is no relation at all. Its a differet point in the game. I wasnt clamoring for Howry last inning. But if you think just because Howry gave up a triple there, then he would have if he was brought in in the 8th, then I dont know what to tell you.

 

Quit taking it so literal. Nobody saying he would have given up a triple. They are saying he was a lot more likely to give up a hit compared to Marmol.

 

Like I said you had a 6 run lead, even if they give up a grand slam you still have a 2 run lead with nobody on. Ive backed off my statement regarding Marmol a little since Ive learned he had only thrown 2 innings. However, to say the triple Howry gave up is why Marmol was brought in is unrelated, and irrelevant.

 

I think the Cubs should put Marmol in a glass case in the dugout and admire him for the rest of year while guys like Leiber, Howry and others blow baseball games. Not saying he should pitch every day, but my God, this is not Dusty-like abuse.

 

No you are right this is goes beyond Dustylike abuse. Marmol was on pace to pitch 100 innings out of the bullpen as of like a week or 2 ago. Thats un chartered territory for about any reliever EVER

 

That's not really true. The top usage relievers are around 95 about every year, and there have been 4 different relievers in the last 5 years to go over 100 innings.

And that's just counting their relieving innings..the guys who start 2-3 games a year and are in the bullpen the rest of the time probably even more regularly go over 100 innings, but just don't show up in the stats that way.

[TMan92]

That at bat is why Marmol pitched in the 8th.

Totally unrelated

 

For someone who just called out Howry, you should see the relation

 

No there is no relation at all. Its a differet point in the game. I wasnt clamoring for Howry last inning. But if you think just because Howry gave up a triple there, then he would have if he was brought in in the 8th, then I dont know what to tell you.

 

Quit taking it so literal. Nobody saying he would have given up a triple. They are saying he was a lot more likely to give up a hit compared to Marmol.

 

Like I said you had a 6 run lead, even if they give up a grand slam you still have a 2 run lead with nobody on. Ive backed off my statement regarding Marmol a little since Ive learned he had only thrown 2 innings. However, to say the triple Howry gave up is why Marmol was brought in is unrelated, and irrelevant.

 

I think the Cubs should put Marmol in a glass case in the dugout and admire him for the rest of year while guys like Leiber, Howry and others blow baseball games. Not saying he should pitch every day, but my God, this is not Dusty-like abuse.

 

No you are right this is goes beyond Dustylike abuse. Marmol was on pace to pitch 100 innings out of the bullpen as of like a week or 2 ago. Thats un chartered territory for about any reliever EVER

 

That's not really true. The top usage relievers are around 95 about every year, and there have been 4 different relievers in the last 5 years to go over 100 innings.

And that's just counting their relieving innings..the guys who start 2-3 games a year and are in the bullpen the rest of the time probably even more regularly go over 100 innings, but just don't show up in the stats that way.

 

Mike Marshall set the Major League record for most innings pitched during a season (1974) by a relief pitcher when he appeared in two-hundred eight innings with the Los Angeles Dodgers.

[Keener98]

How many of those guys in the last 5 years that went over 100, had all 100 innings as a reliever? How many were 25 years old, and only in their 2nd season as a reliever?

 

Nevermind I just read ALL of your post instead of the 1st sentence lol

Edited June 14, 2008 by Keener98

[SouthSideRyan]

That at bat is why Marmol pitched in the 8th.

Totally unrelated

 

For someone who just called out Howry, you should see the relation

 

No there is no relation at all. Its a differet point in the game. I wasnt clamoring for Howry last inning. But if you think just because Howry gave up a triple there, then he would have if he was brought in in the 8th, then I dont know what to tell you.

 

Not the triple but the fact that he can't get people out is the problem. I am sure you will pull some stat out of your rear to prove me wrong, but beyond Wood, Marmol and Eyre, the back end of the bullpen is not entirely reliable.

 

Isn't 3 guys the back end of a bullpen?

 

Bullpen ERA+s (coming into today)

 

INF

INF

201

178

161

137

89

 

The Cubs have a great bullpen.

[CubColtPacer]

How many of those guys in the last 5 years that went over 100, had all 100 innings as a reliever? How many were 25 years old, and only in their 2nd season as a reliever?

 

The answer to your first question is every one of them.

 

The answer to your second is none of them. Scott Shields was the closest, and an interesting comparison to Marmol. In 2003, when he was 27, he started 13 games and relieved in 35. Then in 2004 they made him a reliever full-time at the age of 28, and he threw 105 1/3 IP out of the pen. Then he threw 91 2/3 more the next year.

 

I'm not advocating Marmol to be thrown 100 innings. His usage number is slowly starting to drop though. Even after today, it was at 98.6 for the season. I'd love to get that to 90-92 by the end of the year, and to do that, Lou doesn't have to completely stop using him. He just has to continue to pick his spots like he has done lately with him, and that number will continue to go down.

 

I believe that spacing between outings is more important than overall IP anyway, especially for a former starter like Marmol who is used to throwing a lot of innings. The big thing is they need to make sure that he doesn't throw too many stretches where he's coming out again after throwing a lot of pitches the previous 3-4 days. Those are the times where he's at the highest risk of injury. Today he was fresh, and that wasn't really a concern.

 

Edit: Sorry, just saw your edit. Took some time for me to compose my thoughts and try to word it correctly.

[Ski]

Wow. I go to work at 11, we're busy until 1:30, then I check the game and see that the Cubs are up 6-0 against Halliday and Marquis has a 1 hitter going. Then we win later. What is the world coming to?

[rawaction]

Interesting facts:

 

Marmol's last 7 appearances have had him come into the game in the middle of an inning with runners on, and only twice has Lou pitched him to more than 1 batter the next inning (and one of those was the 3 run homer game that was the start and probably likely impetus for this stretch).

Marmol's turned into the fireman instead of the 8th inning guy for the most part now, and I applaud that change.

 

I almost cannot believe that if you asked me would I take Marquis's season so far over the next 3 1/2 months would I take it, and I would very quickly say yes. Marquis is playing the part of an average starter very well so far. Avoid the disaster starts, spray in a couple gems, and have the rest of the starts be questionable. His ERA+ moved back over the 100 mark today.

 

Nice to see Lee have a very good game today. His bat will be crucial these next 2 weeks as the Cubs experiment to find the best combination at 2B/LF.

 

Overall, just a very nice game. We rested some starters and got a win. Anytime you can do that, you're killing two birds with one stone.

 

Nice post....as usual.

 

Indeed. Very good post. Agree with everything.

[BigSlick]

I'm glad we're talking about Marmol's usage, its a concern for every Cubs fans, but some other nuggets that haven't been talked about:

 

Lee has now reached base in 9 straight games, went 3-4 today and has put together much better at bats. Very encouraging.

 

Edmonds had a good day and is approaching mid .850's OPS, uh oh. :scratch: :D

[YearofDaCubs]

Allowing Howry to pitch is starting to become a problem. Without his velocity he just isn't good. Marquis pitched well today and now has a respectable era.

[Keener98]

Allowing Howry to pitch is starting to become a problem. Without his velocity he just isn't good. Marquis pitched well today and now has a respectable era.

 

 

Today is the perfect game to let Howry pitch in. We were up 5 runs in the 9th inning. Howry has proven in his career he gets better as the season goes along, lets just hope we get last years 2nd half out of Howry again in this 2nd half.

[Roast]

Awesome win today. If rob ever comes back around he's still on tap for tomorrow.

[SouthSideRyan]

Allowing Howry to pitch is starting to become a problem. Without his velocity he just isn't good. Marquis pitched well today and now has a respectable era.

 

Howry since April(including today): 3.13 ERA 20 Ks, 3 BB

[Keener98]

Allowing Howry to pitch is starting to become a problem. Without his velocity he just isn't good. Marquis pitched well today and now has a respectable era.

 

Howry since April(including today): 3.13 ERA 20 Ks, 3 BB

 

 

You sure thats right SSR? He had a 1.76 ERA in May, and so far in June he has a 6.75, that would be a 4.26 ERA wouldnt it? Howry was terrible in April, great in May, and so far terrible in June. I dont know what his deal is hes historically a slow starter, and right now he has no business in a close game, but that doesnt mean he shouldnt be used at all. Games like today are when he should be used for right now until he starts getting batters out consistently. Right now Eyre and Marmol should be the setup guys.

[SouthSideRyan]

You're just combining his May and June ERAs and dividing by 2. He threw a lot more innings in May.

[CubColtPacer]

Allowing Howry to pitch is starting to become a problem. Without his velocity he just isn't good. Marquis pitched well today and now has a respectable era.

 

Howry since April(including today): 3.13 ERA 20 Ks, 3 BB

 

 

You sure thats right SSR? He had a 1.76 ERA in May, and so far in June he has a 6.75, that would be a 4.26 ERA wouldnt it? Howry was terrible in April, great in May, and so far terrible in June. I dont know what his deal is hes historically a slow starter, and right now he has no business in a close game, but that doesnt mean he shouldnt be used at all. Games like today are when he should be used for right now until he starts getting batters out consistently. Right now Eyre and Marmol should be the setup guys.

 

It's not a straight average because Howry pitched 15 1/3 innings in May, and only 5 innings so far in June. I'm actually calculating a 3.10 ERA for him since the end of April.