MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[RedFlash]

Bigbird is talking again, for anyone who is interested:

 

It's my understanding that in addition to Gallagher, Cedeno and Murton we've asked for one of 2 players to be included. If one is there will be a deal. If not Roberts will remain an O.

 

Someone asked if the two in question might be Colvin and Veal and he replied

 

Nope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

For the love of Cubs fan sanity, PLEASE Hendry back the heck away. There is no way Brian Roberts is worth more then two solid young players, much less 4 players.

[DeuceBaseman]

Let's play "Lou's Adovcate" and say for argument sake....that Soriano is moved down to 4th or 5th spot, who bats "leadoff" for the Cubs? Don't say Brian Roberts, he isn't a member of the club.

 

To me this arguing over where Soriano is going to hit is moot, because unless the Cubs acquire Roberts(or another hitter who can bat leadoff) Soriano is the best and only option to hit leadoff. DeRosa---right now should be penicled in either 2nd or 6th. Theriot---should never see leadoff again.Fukudome is already penciled in to hit 5th. So, backers of moving Soriano out of the leadoff spot, using the current club (and not rumors players), who would you put at leadoff?

 

There is not a viable option on the club other then Soriano to hit leadoff. Blame that on Hendry if you right, blame it on Soriano's ego/pride if you chose, but the fact is unless Brian Roberts or whoever comes strolling through the door, Soriano is the ONLY option at leadoff. It's that simple.

 

We are only arguing this based on us getting Roberts. Roberts would bat leadoff. If Roberts isnt on the Cubs then there is no argument.

[wrigley23]

you would be right if we were the Chicago Soriano's. It's not what is best for Soriano...but for the Cubs. Soriano needs to do what is best for the team. In regards to him hitting best there. How do you know? He has never hit 2nd, 4th, 5th for the cubs. He did at times for other teams but that doesn't mean he would bust out here. Soriano is more likely to get an extra base hit than roberts so he would knock him in. If soriano got on base, roberts may single or walk so that doesn't get soriano in...especially when you consider soriano is not a heavy basestealer these days.

 

"SORIANO IS MOST VALUABLE WHERE HE HITS THE BEST

 

I find it amazing that you jokers continue to spoew this garbage about how "Soriano is more valuable lower in the order" yet you continue to ignore that fact that all the evidence shows otherwise."

[third eye]

the odds on soriano getting a leadoff hr are far less than the odds on roberts getting on base to be driven in are.

 

See, the thing is that a Soriano leadoff home run guarantees your team a run whereas a Roberts walk or single doesn't guarantee you anything other than a baserunner. Yes, a walk/single increases the odds that your team will score but a team always scores a run when a home run is hit.

 

To take it a bit further, the player batting immediately after a guy who hits a home run has never grounded into a double play while that happens all the time after a single or a walk.

 

 

Additionally, a team is slightly more likely to score multiple runs in an inning when an inning is kicked off with a homer versus a walk. I forget if it was Buck or McCarver who got schooled by stats inc on a national broadcast debating that point.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Let's play "Lou's Adovcate" and say for argument sake....that Soriano is moved down to 4th or 5th spot, who bats "leadoff" for the Cubs? Don't say Brian Roberts, he isn't a member of the club.

 

To me this arguing over where Soriano is going to hit is moot, because unless the Cubs acquire Roberts(or another hitter who can bat leadoff) Soriano is the best and only option to hit leadoff. DeRosa---right now should be penicled in either 2nd or 6th. Theriot---should never see leadoff again.Fukudome is already penciled in to hit 5th. So, backers of moving Soriano out of the leadoff spot, using the current club (and not rumors players), who would you put at leadoff?

 

There is not a viable option on the club other then Soriano to hit leadoff. Blame that on Hendry if you right, blame it on Soriano's ego/pride if you chose, but the fact is unless Brian Roberts or whoever comes strolling through the door, Soriano is the ONLY option at leadoff. It's that simple.

 

Team record by leadoff hitter

 

CUBS are 69-56 when Soriano hits in the leadoff spot

CUBS are 15-19 when Theriot hits in the leadoff spot

CUBS are 1-2 when Pie hits in the leadoff spot

[DeuceBaseman]

the odds on soriano getting a leadoff hr are far less than the odds on roberts getting on base to be driven in are.

 

See, the thing is that a Soriano leadoff home run guarantees your team a run whereas a Roberts walk or single doesn't guarantee you anything other than a baserunner. Yes, a walk/single increases the odds that your team will score but a team always scores a run when a home run is hit.

 

To take it a bit further, the player batting immediately after a guy who hits a home run has never grounded into a double play while that happens all the time after a single or a walk.

 

 

Additionally, a team is slightly more likely to score multiple runs in an inning when an inning is kicked off with a homer versus a walk. I forget if it was Buck or McCarver who got schooled by stats inc on a national broadcast debating that point.

 

Thats probably cuz if the guy hits a HR then its more likely that the pitcher sucks. And he'll give up more runs in the inning.

[Bote McBoteface]

you would be right if we were the Chicago Soriano's. It's not what is best for Soriano...but for the Cubs. Soriano needs to do what is best for the team. In regards to him hitting best there. How do you know? He has never hit 2nd, 4th, 5th for the cubs. He did at times for other teams but that doesn't mean he would bust out here. Soriano is more likely to get an extra base hit than roberts so he would knock him in. If soriano got on base, roberts may single or walk so that doesn't get soriano in...especially when you consider soriano is not a heavy basestealer these days.

 

"SORIANO IS MOST VALUABLE WHERE HE HITS THE BEST

 

I find it amazing that you jokers continue to spoew this garbage about how "Soriano is more valuable lower in the order" yet you continue to ignore that fact that all the evidence shows otherwise."

 

Ironic.

 

What evidence have you shown, anyways?

 

By the way, Chicago Sorianos has a nice ring to it.

[wrigley23]

"Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 1 swinging)

Fastball 2 feet over his head (strike 2 swinging)

Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 3 swinging)"

 

this sounds like how we start most games when you consider soriano strikes out about 30% of the time. It's always great for the chicago cubs to start games w/ an out isn't it? Just because our $18 mill man "feels better" & doesn't have pressure to earn his money & come in...in the clutch. Give me a break. There was a time when his lack of patience & knowledge of the strikezone was outweighed by his speed on the basepaths. Those days are gone & he is more of an rbi producer just like roberts is more of a tablesetter.

[wrigley23]

fred..i agree soriano should lead off on the current cub team so your records have no relevance. i'd like to see what it would be if we had roberts in front of soriano like we will if this trade goes through.

[UK1679666180]

"Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 1 swinging)

Fastball 2 feet over his head (strike 2 swinging)

Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 3 swinging)"

 

this sounds like how we start most games when you consider soriano strikes out about 30% of the time. It's always great for the chicago cubs to start games w/ an out isn't it? Just because our $18 mill man "feels better" & doesn't have pressure to earn his money & come in...in the clutch. Give me a break. There was a time when his lack of patience & knowledge of the strikezone was outweighed by his speed on the basepaths. Those days are gone & he is more of an rbi producer just like roberts is more of a tablesetter.

 

Now, he just relies on one of the quickest bats in the majors and tremendous raw power. He's never been a tablesetter, he's been a slugger with speed and been effective leading off regardless if he could run or when he couldn't run well (like last year).

[Fred Hornkohl]

fred..i agree soriano should lead off on the current cub team so your records have no relevance. i'd like to see what it would be if we had roberts in front of soriano like we will if this trade goes through.

 

The records have no relevance because you agree ????

 

What arrogance !!!

[Mizzou]

Let's play "Lou's Adovcate" and say for argument sake....that Soriano is moved down to 4th or 5th spot, who bats "leadoff" for the Cubs? Don't say Brian Roberts, he isn't a member of the club.

 

To me this arguing over where Soriano is going to hit is moot, because unless the Cubs acquire Roberts(or another hitter who can bat leadoff) Soriano is the best and only option to hit leadoff. DeRosa---right now should be penicled in either 2nd or 6th. Theriot---should never see leadoff again.Fukudome is already penciled in to hit 5th. So, backers of moving Soriano out of the leadoff spot, using the current club (and not rumors players), who would you put at leadoff?

 

There is not a viable option on the club other then Soriano to hit leadoff. Blame that on Hendry if you right, blame it on Soriano's ego/pride if you chose, but the fact is unless Brian Roberts or whoever comes strolling through the door, Soriano is the ONLY option at leadoff. It's that simple.

 

Team record by leadoff hitter

 

CUBS are 69-56 when Soriano hits in the leadoff spot

CUBS are 15-19 when Theriot hits in the leadoff spot

CUBS are 1-2 when Pie hits in the leadoff spot

You know baseball season is close when you see Fred posting stats again!

[Fred Hornkohl]

You know baseball season is close when you see Fred posting stats again!

 

Man... I'm so freaking tired of winter I don't know which way to turn.

 

Let there be baseball !!!

[Sammy Sofa]

"Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 1 swinging)

Fastball 2 feet over his head (strike 2 swinging)

Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 3 swinging)"

 

this sounds like how we start most games when you consider soriano strikes out about 30% of the time. It's always great for the chicago cubs to start games w/ an out isn't it? Just because our $18 mill man "feels better" & doesn't have pressure to earn his money & come in...in the clutch. Give me a break. There was a time when his lack of patience & knowledge of the strikezone was outweighed by his speed on the basepaths. Those days are gone & he is more of an rbi producer just like roberts is more of a tablesetter.

 

Stop dwelling on running speed.

 

Stop acting like Roberts never gets out or ends up scoring more then Soriano.

[wrigley23]

they have no relevance because we don't know what our record would have been w/ roberts hitting in front of soriano last year. i hope we get to find out this year.

[17 Seconds]

in over my head? in what respect? none of us works in mlb or in any position other than fandom to make anything other than a fan's opinion. to the guy saying a homer by soriano is better than roberts simply getting on base. How simplistic. I've already answered this one but i'll take another run at driving it into your head. First off, roberts gets on base more times than soriano hits home runs so. In terms of getting on base in general, roberts gets on base 40 pts more than soriano plus soriano is more likely to drive roberts in than vice versa. It doesn't get much more simple than that. In terms of soriano not hitting as good down in the order vs the top. You may be able to say that about a lot of hitters for various reasons. That is hardly a primary reason for where you hit someone as each team & year brings a different set of variables to the table. Soriano has said in the offseason he would move down if that's what piniella wanted. So much for him being against the move. If more people that are vocal on here are saying soriano is better leading off...that doesn't make your side right. You give yourself way too much credit as a message boarder that ranks right up there w/ the guy ringing the salvation army bell at wal-mart during the holidays.

 

STOP TALKING ABOUT ROBERTS.

 

A) He's not on this team and probably will never be.

 

B) Even if ROberts was on this team, it's irrelevent. This is about getting the most out of Soriano, not getting the most out of a "position" that doesn't exist.

 

"Hey, we just gave a guy a ridiculous 136 million dollar contract, what should we do with him?"

 

"Hey I know, let's play him where he performs the worst!"

[17 Seconds]

Let's play "Lou's Adovcate" and say for argument sake....that Soriano is moved down to 4th or 5th spot, who bats "leadoff" for the Cubs? Don't say Brian Roberts, he isn't a member of the club.

 

To me this arguing over where Soriano is going to hit is moot, because unless the Cubs acquire Roberts(or another hitter who can bat leadoff) Soriano is the best and only option to hit leadoff. DeRosa---right now should be penicled in either 2nd or 6th. Theriot---should never see leadoff again.Fukudome is already penciled in to hit 5th. So, backers of moving Soriano out of the leadoff spot, using the current club (and not rumors players), who would you put at leadoff?

 

There is not a viable option on the club other then Soriano to hit leadoff. Blame that on Hendry if you right, blame it on Soriano's ego/pride if you chose, but the fact is unless Brian Roberts or whoever comes strolling through the door, Soriano is the ONLY option at leadoff. It's that simple.

 

Roberts would bat leadoff.

 

Stop trying to pass your guess of as fact.

 

I'm pretty sure he would NOT bat leadoff, but you don't see me going around and passing it off as a fact.

[Rob]

"Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 1 swinging)

Fastball 2 feet over his head (strike 2 swinging)

Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 3 swinging)"

 

this sounds like how we start most games when you consider soriano strikes out about 30% of the time. It's always great for the chicago cubs to start games w/ an out isn't it? Just because our $18 mill man "feels better" & doesn't have pressure to earn his money & come in...in the clutch. Give me a break. There was a time when his lack of patience & knowledge of the strikezone was outweighed by his speed on the basepaths. Those days are gone & he is more of an rbi producer just like roberts is more of a tablesetter.

 

Do you ever stop espousing archaic and disproven philosophies?

 

Oh, and please stop pretending hypothetical examples are a substitute for logic.

[CUBZ99]

Bigbird is talking again, for anyone who is interested:

 

It's my understanding that in addition to Gallagher, Cedeno and Murton we've asked for one of 2 players to be included. If one is there will be a deal. If not Roberts will remain an O.

 

Someone asked if the two in question might be Colvin and Veal and he replied

 

Nope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

For the love of Cubs fan sanity, PLEASE Hendry back the heck away. There is no way Brian Roberts is worth more then two solid young players, much less 4 players.

 

I'm guessing from reports that one of the two is Ceda.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

"Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 1 swinging)

Fastball 2 feet over his head (strike 2 swinging)

Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 3 swinging)"

 

this sounds like how we start most games when you consider soriano strikes out about 30% of the time. It's always great for the chicago cubs to start games w/ an out isn't it? Just because our $18 mill man "feels better" & doesn't have pressure to earn his money & come in...in the clutch. Give me a break. There was a time when his lack of patience & knowledge of the strikezone was outweighed by his speed on the basepaths. Those days are gone & he is more of an rbi producer just like roberts is more of a tablesetter.

 

 

Do you have the PbP data to back up how often your hypothetical scenario happens or are you just pulling it out your ass and hoping we'll accept it as fact?

[David]

Bigbird is talking again, for anyone who is interested:

 

It's my understanding that in addition to Gallagher, Cedeno and Murton we've asked for one of 2 players to be included. If one is there will be a deal. If not Roberts will remain an O.

 

Someone asked if the two in question might be Colvin and Veal and he replied

 

Nope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

For the love of Cubs fan sanity, PLEASE Hendry back the heck away. There is no way Brian Roberts is worth more then two solid young players, much less 4 players.

 

I'm guessing from reports that one of the two is Ceda.

 

If you were to go by what Gammons reported, they'd be Pie and Ceda. That would fall right in line.

[UK1679666180]

"Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 1 swinging)

Fastball 2 feet over his head (strike 2 swinging)

Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 3 swinging)"

 

this sounds like how we start most games when you consider soriano strikes out about 30% of the time. It's always great for the chicago cubs to start games w/ an out isn't it? Just because our $18 mill man "feels better" & doesn't have pressure to earn his money & come in...in the clutch. Give me a break. There was a time when his lack of patience & knowledge of the strikezone was outweighed by his speed on the basepaths. Those days are gone & he is more of an rbi producer just like roberts is more of a tablesetter.

 

 

Do you have the PbP data to back up how often your hypothetical scenario happens or are you just pulling it out your ass and hoping we'll accept it as fact?

 

Fwiw, Wrigley23 did not introduce the bolded part, DexterMorgan did.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

"Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 1 swinging)

Fastball 2 feet over his head (strike 2 swinging)

Breaking ball in the dirt (strike 3 swinging)"

 

this sounds like how we start most games when you consider soriano strikes out about 30% of the time. It's always great for the chicago cubs to start games w/ an out isn't it? Just because our $18 mill man "feels better" & doesn't have pressure to earn his money & come in...in the clutch. Give me a break. There was a time when his lack of patience & knowledge of the strikezone was outweighed by his speed on the basepaths. Those days are gone & he is more of an rbi producer just like roberts is more of a tablesetter.

 

 

Do you have the PbP data to back up how often your hypothetical scenario happens or are you just pulling it out your ass and hoping we'll accept it as fact?

 

Fwiw, Wrigley23 did not introduce the bolded part, DexterMorgan did.

 

Then my apologies. But I'm not inclined to receive an argument favorably that is based on hypothetical scenarios and not raw data.

[seanimal]

man they'll pretty much let anyone post here

[Rob]

man they'll pretty much let anyone post here

 

I don't want to be part of any organization with judgement so bad that they would have me, and yet, here we are...