MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[Clem Fandango]

Yes, you're right. Those 1679 at bats spread out over a 9 year career were all a coincidence. At 32 years old, I'm sure that's suddenly going to change. Well done.

 

How many of those at bats with runners on occurred when he was hitting in the middle of the order as a regular?

 

You know, split stats are useful for everything you're discounting. It's not hard to find them either. Just a couple of clicks away from Google. It's incredible, and it makes you smarter, too!

[UBlink]

Good response, you probably go to U of I with a response like that.

 

Huh? What does this even mean? The way it's phrased, it seems like it's intended as an insult, but U of I is a very good school, so I don't really get it.

 

I went to U of I, but I hate that school right now. Everyone there is so cocky, teachers and students. Their acceptance procedures are off the wall, and most likely just pick names out of a hat. So I'm just pissed at U of I right now and thats why I had to insult the school. Someone I know got rejected with a 29 ACT, 3.9 GPA and involved in every activity, while someone else I know got accepted with a 21 ACT, 3.8 GPA and not very involved. Into the same major as well.

 

My guess would be that your associate probably didn't spend the entire personal interview explaining to the interviewer over and over again that a half windsor knot is the only acceptible knot for a tie.

 

My guess is that the one with lower scores was faster, and speed is more important than things like ACT scores.

[Skyballer]

everyone repeat after me:

 

A HR IS THE BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME OF ANY AT BAT IN ANY SITUATION

 

some of you need to write this on the blackboard 100 times every day this week

Does that count as repeating after you?

[E.J.]

Good God. We need some actual baseball to be played. Reading this crap is just ridiculous at this point. How many more days until opening day?

[Outshined_One]

Good God. We need some actual baseball to be played. Reading this crap is just ridiculous at this point. How many more days until opening day?

 

Too many. :(

[BCVM22]

Good God. We need some actual baseball to be played. Reading this crap is just ridiculous at this point. How many more days until opening day?

 

41 days as of today (Tuesday).

[inari]

When are you going to remove my correct analysis from your signature?

 

Sorry, its gone now. But it is not correct. Average is very important. There's a reason why that is the 1st stat shown when a player comes up to bat. It shows how good a hitter is. There are other stats that might tell more about a player, but there is no way that average isnt an important stat. You are a very good hitter if you can bat .300 over a season. Hopefully you have some other tools as well besides being a batting average hitter, but having a high average is a good stat to have.

 

The reason average isn't that important is that it can't stand on it's own. If a guy has a .300 average but a (let's say) .320 OBP, he is not a good offensive player. It doesn't matter that he can hit for high average because overall he's making outs too often because he doesn't get on base in other ways.

 

On the other hand, if a guy has a .240 average but a .370 OBP, he's a pretty good offensive player (might even be very good, depending on how much power he hits for), regardless of the low average. OBP encompasses BA and tells you more about the hitter on top of it.

 

There's really not that much of a reason to look at his BA, other than if you want to evaluate how likely a player is to continue to perform at the level he has previously exhibited. In other words, you might want to look at it to see if a given player's OBP is highly batting average dependent, because if it is, without getting too far into detail about stuff like BABIP, it's probably less repeatable, particularly as the player ages.

 

If a guy hits .240 hes a terrible hitter regardless of his OBP. Hits are better than walks. Hits can get you more than one base, and can actually drive in runs. Id rather have the .300 .320 guy, but it depends on his power and speed too.

 

You'd sacrifice 50 points of OBP for a nifty looking batting average?

[RedFlash]

Good God. We need some actual baseball to be played. Reading this crap is just ridiculous at this point. How many more days until opening day?

 

I'd take some exhibition games, right now.

[Rob]

When are you going to remove my correct analysis from your signature?

 

Sorry, its gone now. But it is not correct. Average is very important. There's a reason why that is the 1st stat shown when a player comes up to bat. It shows how good a hitter is. There are other stats that might tell more about a player, but there is no way that average isnt an important stat. You are a very good hitter if you can bat .300 over a season. Hopefully you have some other tools as well besides being a batting average hitter, but having a high average is a good stat to have.

 

The reason average isn't that important is that it can't stand on it's own. If a guy has a .300 average but a (let's say) .320 OBP, he is not a good offensive player. It doesn't matter that he can hit for high average because overall he's making outs too often because he doesn't get on base in other ways.

 

On the other hand, if a guy has a .240 average but a .370 OBP, he's a pretty good offensive player (might even be very good, depending on how much power he hits for), regardless of the low average. OBP encompasses BA and tells you more about the hitter on top of it.

 

There's really not that much of a reason to look at his BA, other than if you want to evaluate how likely a player is to continue to perform at the level he has previously exhibited. In other words, you might want to look at it to see if a given player's OBP is highly batting average dependent, because if it is, without getting too far into detail about stuff like BABIP, it's probably less repeatable, particularly as the player ages.

 

If a guy hits .240 hes a terrible hitter regardless of his OBP. Hits are better than walks. Hits can get you more than one base, and can actually drive in runs. Id rather have the .300 .320 guy, but it depends on his power and speed too.

 

quick quiz:

 

who is the better hitter?

 

A) .264/.386/.554

B) .309/.356/.382

 

 

I prefer Adam Dunn over David Eckstein, personally.

[RedFlash]

When are you going to remove my correct analysis from your signature?

 

Sorry, its gone now. But it is not correct. Average is very important. There's a reason why that is the 1st stat shown when a player comes up to bat. It shows how good a hitter is. There are other stats that might tell more about a player, but there is no way that average isnt an important stat. You are a very good hitter if you can bat .300 over a season. Hopefully you have some other tools as well besides being a batting average hitter, but having a high average is a good stat to have.

 

The reason average isn't that important is that it can't stand on it's own. If a guy has a .300 average but a (let's say) .320 OBP, he is not a good offensive player. It doesn't matter that he can hit for high average because overall he's making outs too often because he doesn't get on base in other ways.

 

On the other hand, if a guy has a .240 average but a .370 OBP, he's a pretty good offensive player (might even be very good, depending on how much power he hits for), regardless of the low average. OBP encompasses BA and tells you more about the hitter on top of it.

 

There's really not that much of a reason to look at his BA, other than if you want to evaluate how likely a player is to continue to perform at the level he has previously exhibited. In other words, you might want to look at it to see if a given player's OBP is highly batting average dependent, because if it is, without getting too far into detail about stuff like BABIP, it's probably less repeatable, particularly as the player ages.

 

If a guy hits .240 hes a terrible hitter regardless of his OBP. Hits are better than walks. Hits can get you more than one base, and can actually drive in runs. Id rather have the .300 .320 guy, but it depends on his power and speed too.

 

quick quiz:

 

who is the better hitter?

 

A) .264/.386/.554

B) .309/.356/.382

 

 

I prefer Adam Dunn over David Eckstein, personally.

 

Agreed.

[inari]

Oh yeah? How many rings does Adam Dunn have?

[Clem Fandango]

Oh yeah? How many rings does Adam Dunn have?

 

In your face, common sense!

[RedFlash]

Oh yeah? How many rings does Adam Dunn have?

 

(Imitating Rosie Perez from "Walk Men Can't Jump): Oh no, you didn't. (snaps fingers)

[Guest]

everyone repeat after me:

 

A HR IS THE BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME OF ANY AT BAT IN ANY SITUATION

 

some of you need to write this on the blackboard 100 times every day this week

 

HRs are rally killers.

 

Yeah but they also unclog the bases so it's kind of a catch-22.

[Guest]

When are you going to remove my correct analysis from your signature?

 

Sorry, its gone now. But it is not correct. Average is very important. There's a reason why that is the 1st stat shown when a player comes up to bat. It shows how good a hitter is. There are other stats that might tell more about a player, but there is no way that average isnt an important stat. You are a very good hitter if you can bat .300 over a season. Hopefully you have some other tools as well besides being a batting average hitter, but having a high average is a good stat to have.

 

The reason average isn't that important is that it can't stand on it's own. If a guy has a .300 average but a (let's say) .320 OBP, he is not a good offensive player. It doesn't matter that he can hit for high average because overall he's making outs too often because he doesn't get on base in other ways.

 

On the other hand, if a guy has a .240 average but a .370 OBP, he's a pretty good offensive player (might even be very good, depending on how much power he hits for), regardless of the low average. OBP encompasses BA and tells you more about the hitter on top of it.

 

There's really not that much of a reason to look at his BA, other than if you want to evaluate how likely a player is to continue to perform at the level he has previously exhibited. In other words, you might want to look at it to see if a given player's OBP is highly batting average dependent, because if it is, without getting too far into detail about stuff like BABIP, it's probably less repeatable, particularly as the player ages.

 

If a guy hits .240 hes a terrible hitter regardless of his OBP. Hits are better than walks. Hits can get you more than one base, and can actually drive in runs. Id rather have the .300 .320 guy, but it depends on his power and speed too.

 

Adam Dunn has a career batting average of .246 and he's a very good hitter. You know why? It has something to do with the fact that he draws 100+ walks per year and subsequently has a career OBP of .381. He also hits for a ton of power which is evidenced by his .519 SLG and by the fact that he's been in the top 6 in the majors in IsoP in three of the last four years.

 

There's also another guy, you might have heard of him, who once hit 70 home runs in a season and hit 583 in his career. His name is Mark McGwire and he has a career .263 BA. But you must not think he's a very good hitter because he doesn't hit .300.

 

EDIT: Beaten to the punch to Adam Dunn. :D

[wvcbxl]

Average is very important. There's a reason why that is the 1st stat shown when a player comes up to bat.

 

That reason being the limited comprehension of the average viewer.

They like to keep things simple on TV. If people start working their calculators, they would miss the commercials.

[Magnetic Curses]

It's good for looking at what a player did, but it's not so good when trying to predict what a player will do.

 

How so? You can say that about any stat then. If a guy hits .300 one year, then there is no reason to expect him not to hit .300 the next year. Same with HRs. If a guy hits 30 HRs one year, then there is no reason not to expect him to hit 30 the next year. Except that HR's can dramatically decrease with age while average actually can stay close to the same, so i dunno. Every stat can be expected to be repeated, but it might not happen.

 

no, home runs and walks occur independent of luck, base hits do not. batting average is a stat that is highly affected by chance, which makes it's deviation much more unpredictable.

[17 Seconds]

Alright guys, who's ready for the weekly interesting but ultimately worthless bigbird info?

 

FWIW: Roberts asks for trade soon

 

As usual read into this as little or as much as you want. I was told late last evening that Roberts has spoken with upper management and ownership and requested a trade to happen soon if he is in fact going to be traded. AM wants him moved. The focus now is with the Cubs and Payton would be a part of the package going back to Chicago. With Roberts scheduled to report today he feels a deal could happen by the end of the week.

 

Here we go again.

[DeuceBaseman]

I think guys with better batting averages are better pure hitters than guys with a lot of HRs. The guys like Adam Dunn are good because they are big and strong. If I was Adam Dunn's size, I'd be a MLB All-Star right now. I would take Adam Dunn over David Eckstein any day. But when we were talking about comparing 2 players we just talked about AVG and OBP. No one ever mentioned slugging. If you just take the 2 stats alone and you have one guy batting .240 with a .370 OBP (very rare) and a guy batting .300 with a .320 OBP (even more rare) then heres what you get: In 500 at bats the 1st guy gets 99 hits and 86 walks while the 2nd guy gets 146 hits and 14 walks. That equals 47 extra hits and 72 fewer walks. So the guy with more walks gets on base 25 more times over the course of the year. Out of those 47 extra hits, if 25 of them are for extra bases then you already get the same amount of total bases. Or if he steals one base then its an extra total base for him because hes probably fast. Plus hits also drive in runs where walks usually don't. Based on those 2 stats alone, i'd take the guy with the .300 avg. But it is highly likely that the guy with the .240 avg is also hitting 40 HRs and thats why he is walking so much. But thats not what were talking about. We're talking about batting average and OBP. Guys with .240 averages and .370 obp are not good hitters. They are big strong guys who swing as hard as they can and more than half of the time miss the ball completely. If you take a lot of walks it doesnt mean your a good hitter. It means that you are big and strong so the pitcher is afraid of you because you can hit the ball a long way, and it means that you know how to lay off a pitch out of the strike zone for the most part. That means you have good plate discipline, but doesnt mean your a good hitter. Albert Pujols is a good hitter. Miguel Cabrera is a good hitter. Todd Helton is a good hitter. Ichiro is a good hitter. These guys have high averages. If there is a guy on 1st and 2nd base in a tie game in the last inning with 2 outs, who would you rather have up; Orlando Cabrera or Rickie Weeks. You want the better hitter up. One bats .300 with a lower OBP but low k's. The other one has a low average but high OBP but a ton of k's. Cabrera is your best bet. Guys with higher averages are the better hitters. But they might not take many pitches because they know what they want and hit the ball when they see it. That's my opinion, I might be a little biased because I was a high average low power hitter in HS and College, but that's just how I see it. You guys can have your opinion but I'll stick with mine.

[Magnetic Curses]

i really don't know why we need roberts or why hendry has targeted him, just another reason why hendry is one of the worst gms in the game. if we get roberts, i hope he can get a good package for derosa, because it'd be pointless to have him on the team if he's not the everyday ss, which i don't necessarily recommend.

 

i would have given up pie in a deal for bedard, i would have even checked to see if andy is dumb enough to take colvin off of our hands instead. but hendry comes from the same school of dumb that andy went to.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Stannis

[17 Seconds]

If I was Adam Dunn's size, I'd be a MLB All-Star right now.

 

I literally read nothing after this statement. I love it.

[DeuceBaseman]

no, home runs and walks occur independent of luck, base hits do not. batting average is a stat that is highly affected by chance, which makes it's deviation much more unpredictable.

 

Hits are more likely to occur by chance while walks are not? I completely disagree. Walks are WAYYYY more about luck than hits are. You get a hit if your a good hitter end of story. You take a walk if the pitcher happens to throw you balls.

[Magnetic Curses]

no, home runs and walks occur independent of luck, base hits do not. batting average is a stat that is highly affected by chance, which makes it's deviation much more unpredictable.

 

Hits are more likely to occur by chance while walks are not? I completely disagree. Walks are WAYYYY more about luck than hits are. You get a hit if your a good hitter end of story. You take a walk if the pitcher happens to throw you balls.

 

that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

[DeuceBaseman]

If I was Adam Dunn's size, I'd be a MLB All-Star right now.

 

I literally read nothing after this statement. I love it.

 

Why? It's completely true. I was a .500 hitter in HS. A high .300 hitter in college. But I had no home runs. Give me an extra 100 pounds and I'd be batting .500 in college with 20 HRs. That equals mlb and further. Come on, we can say this about so many other players too. Why do you think everyone turned to steroids? Because if you are big in baseball you have that much more of an advantage.

[DeuceBaseman]

no, home runs and walks occur independent of luck, base hits do not. batting average is a stat that is highly affected by chance, which makes it's deviation much more unpredictable.

 

Hits are more likely to occur by chance while walks are not? I completely disagree. Walks are WAYYYY more about luck than hits are. You get a hit if your a good hitter end of story. You take a walk if the pitcher happens to throw you balls.

 

that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

 

What a coincidence because what you wrote above that was the dumbest thing i've ever heard.