MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This isn't perfect because anytime someone steals 3rd it doesn't apply, but still:

 

Soriano put himself in scoring position by himself 99 times last year, 33 of them being HR that scored him without any help(ideal). He did this in 617 PA's, for a rate of .160

 

Roberts put himself in scoring position by himself 109 times last year, 12 of them being HR that scored him without any help. He did this in 716 PA's, for a rate of .152

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

TT, makes the point crystal clear.

 

Soriano is just as adept at getting himself in scoring position than Roberts and is more adept at scoring himself via the HR than Roberts ever will be.

[cubfan1955]

Last season I was an advocate of moving Soriano down to the middle of the order. It was discussed at length with some great arguments from both sides:

 

SORIANO HAS ARRIVED!

 

With the addition of Fukudome though I'm fine with leaving Soriano leading off and DeRosa hitting #2. What concerns me more is a bottom of the lineup with Soto, Pie, Theriot, and any pitcher not named Zambrano. A SS that can hit would be nice.

[wrigley23]

i have no idea where tiger got his facts, but again...roberts had an obp of 40 pts better. that makes it pretty clear doesn't it? Not only does roberts get on base better but he works the count further, steals more bases when he gets on & is less likely to drive people in like soriano is as well so soriano hitting behind him is better. I think soriano hitting second might actually be better as he is a gaps hitter & would see fastballs w/ lee behind him & roberts on base in front of him. put fuko 4th & aram 5th & we should score our share of first inning runs. Those runs will be needed w/ our 4th & 5th pitcher as we'll have to outscore in those contests.

[cubfan1955]

i have no idea where tiger got his facts, but again...roberts had an obp of 40 pts better. that makes it pretty clear doesn't it? Not only does roberts get on base better but he works the count further, steals more bases when he gets on & is less likely to drive people in like soriano is as well so soriano hitting behind him is better. I think soriano hitting second might actually be better as he is a gaps hitter & would see fastballs w/ lee behind him & roberts on base in front of him. put fuko 4th & aram 5th & we should score our share of first inning runs. Those runs will be needed w/ our 4th & 5th pitcher as we'll have to outscore in those contests.

 

Did we suddenly acquire Brian Roberts? You can't bat him leadoff for the Cubs when he plays for the Orioles.

 

Ship...sailed.

[Sweet Swinging Billy]

Still no deal huh? Bummer. No updates either I guess.

[wrigley23]

this is a message board & last time I checked, next to talking in a bar or during a poker game w/ your buddies...that is the equivalent for message board speculation posting. We aren't here to solve nuclear energy or splitting of the atom...but to discuss cubs baseball & the many varied opinions that in the grand scheme of things have no more importance than a good game of tiddly winks.

[Sammy Sofa]

i have no idea where tiger got his facts, but again...roberts had an obp of 40 pts better. that makes it pretty clear doesn't it? Not only does roberts get on base better but he works the count further, steals more bases when he gets on & is less likely to drive people in like soriano is as well so soriano hitting behind him is better. I think soriano hitting second might actually be better as he is a gaps hitter & would see fastballs w/ lee behind him & roberts on base in front of him. put fuko 4th & aram 5th & we should score our share of first inning runs. Those runs will be needed w/ our 4th & 5th pitcher as we'll have to outscore in those contests.

 

Soriano put himself in scoring position by himself 99 times last year, 33 of them being HR that scored him without any help(ideal). He did this in 617 PA's, for a rate of .160

 

Roberts put himself in scoring position by himself 109 times last year, 12 of them being HR that scored him without any help. He did this in 716 PA's, for a rate of .152

[Ding Dong Johnson]

i have no idea where tiger got his facts

tremendous

[CubsGM]

So, is this trade done yet? I thought it was done a month ago.

[Post Count Padder]

So, is this trade done yet? I thought it was done a month ago.

Well, you're the GM. Get back to work.

[Post Count Padder]

this is a message board & last time I checked, next to talking in a bar or during a poker game w/ your buddies...that is the equivalent for message board speculation posting. We aren't here to solve nuclear energy or splitting of the atom...but to discuss cubs baseball & the many varied opinions that in the grand scheme of things have no more importance than a good game of tiddly winks.

Wait.......what?

[CoolHandLuke]

i have no idea where tiger got his facts, but again...roberts had an obp of 40 pts better. that makes it pretty clear doesn't it? Not only does roberts get on base better but he works the count further, steals more bases when he gets on & is less likely to drive people in like soriano is as well so soriano hitting behind him is better. I think soriano hitting second might actually be better as he is a gaps hitter & would see fastballs w/ lee behind him & roberts on base in front of him. put fuko 4th & aram 5th & we should score our share of first inning runs. Those runs will be needed w/ our 4th & 5th pitcher as we'll have to outscore in those contests.

 

As opposed to?

[Derwood]

i have no idea where tiger got his facts, but again...roberts had an obp of 40 pts better. that makes it pretty clear doesn't it? Not only does roberts get on base better but he works the count further, steals more bases when he gets on & is less likely to drive people in like soriano is as well so soriano hitting behind him is better. I think soriano hitting second might actually be better as he is a gaps hitter & would see fastballs w/ lee behind him & roberts on base in front of him. put fuko 4th & aram 5th & we should score our share of first inning runs. Those runs will be needed w/ our 4th & 5th pitcher as we'll have to outscore in those contests.

 

TT's numbers aren't number of times they reached base, it's the number of times they got into scoring position.

 

Oh, and there is NO BETTER OUTCOME to a plate appearance than a HR. NONE. so Soriano leading off with a HR is better than Roberts getting on with a walk/single EVERY SINGLE TIME

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

i have no idea where tiger got his facts, but again...roberts had an obp of 40 pts better. that makes it pretty clear doesn't it? Not only does roberts get on base better but he works the count further, steals more bases when he gets on & is less likely to drive people in like soriano is as well so soriano hitting behind him is better. I think soriano hitting second might actually be better as he is a gaps hitter & would see fastballs w/ lee behind him & roberts on base in front of him. put fuko 4th & aram 5th & we should score our share of first inning runs. Those runs will be needed w/ our 4th & 5th pitcher as we'll have to outscore in those contests.

 

Do you have numbers to refute those facts? OBP is not the only means of getting oneself into scoring positions. Doubles, triples, and homeruns do that as well.

 

So, your first argument was that Roberts gets into scoring position more often than Soriano. When that was proven false, you blindly hold to it?

 

Ridiculous!

[JGalt73]

The Cubs may lust for Brian Roberts as the perfect part, but they won't put right-hander Jose Ceda or outfielder Felix Pie in the deal, so Roberts is going to stay in Baltimore. For now.

[CoolHandLuke]

18[/b].08"]The Cubs may lust for Brian Roberts as the perfect part, but they won't put right-hander Jose Ceda or outfielder Felix Pie in the deal, so Roberts is going to stay in Baltimore. For now.

 

How do you know?

[DeuceBaseman]

Ok listen, we understand that Soriano can score runs just as well as Roberts can, but on our team Soriano would be much more valuable lower in the order. Why don't we just bat Aramis 1st? I'm sure he would score just as well as Roberts or Soriano. He's not there cuz we need him cleanup to drive the first few guys in. That is what Soriano should be doing. Why doesn't Carlos Beltran bat leadoff? He's got similar numbers to Soriano. Because the Mets are smart and actually know that different guys are suited for different spots in the order. So stop arguing about how Soriano produces the same amount as runs as Roberts. Cuz that isn't the argument. He would just be more valuable lower in the lineup with Roberts doing the getting on base part.

[UK1679666180]

Ok listen, we understand that Soriano can score runs just as well as Roberts can, but on our team Soriano would be much more valuable lower in the order. Why don't we just bat Aramis 1st? I'm sure he would score just as well as Roberts or Soriano. He's not there cuz we need him cleanup to drive the first few guys in. That is what Soriano should be doing. Why doesn't Carlos Beltran bat leadoff? He's got similar numbers to Soriano. Because the Mets are smart and actually know that different guys are suited for different spots in the order. So stop arguing about how Soriano produces the same amount as runs as Roberts. Cuz that isn't the argument. He would just be more valuable lower in the lineup with Roberts doing the getting on base part.

 

Having Reyes on the roster compared to Theriot, Fukudome, and Derosa as poss. leadoff candidates is a separate issue. So is trying to factor a hitter that has leadoff most of his career to a career middle of the order hitter.

 

Yes, I would prefer Soriano in the middle, but compared to who would replace Soriano at the top, I'd rather have Soriano.

[DeuceBaseman]

Yes, I would prefer Soriano in the middle, but compared to who would replace Soriano at the top, I'd rather have Soriano.

 

I'm talking about replacing him with Roberts. If we don't get Roberts then Soriano bats leadoff.

[UK1679666180]

If that happens, it becomes an issue. Facts are ST has started and from media reports, it doesn't appear they are close to agreeing on a trade.

 

Right now, that 25 man roster is most ideal for Soriano leading off again.

[RynoHawk23]

Does anyone want to comment on the fact that the hold up in the Roberts trade could be the inclusion of Jose Ceda!?!?

 

I have to be honest, I've heard of him, know the Cubs are high on him, but I do not know his potential. 3 years in and never pitched above A ball? And he's untouchable?!?!

 

I guess I feel like if they want Gallagher, Ceda and Murton - isn't this a no brainer 'yes'?

 

Someone fill me in.

[CubsGM]

18[/b].08"]The Cubs may lust for Brian Roberts as the perfect part, but they won't put right-hander Jose Ceda or outfielder Felix Pie in the deal, so Roberts is going to stay in Baltimore. For now.

 

How do you know?

I wouldn't doubt it, Peter is at Cubs Spring Training camp down in Mesa so he probably has some good inside info.

[David]

FWIW... bigbird was asked if he thinks Roberts will get traded. This was his response.

 

It's my understanding that in addition to Gallagher, Cedeno and Murton we've asked for one of 2 players to be included. If one is there will be a deal. If not Roberts will remain an O.

 

He was then asked if the two were Colvin and Veal, and he said, "No."

[17 Seconds]

i have no idea where tiger got his facts, but again...roberts had an obp of 40 pts better. that makes it pretty clear doesn't it? Not only does roberts get on base better but he works the count further, steals more bases when he gets on & is less likely to drive people in like soriano is as well so soriano hitting behind him is better. I think soriano hitting second might actually be better as he is a gaps hitter & would see fastballs w/ lee behind him & roberts on base in front of him. put fuko 4th & aram 5th & we should score our share of first inning runs. Those runs will be needed w/ our 4th & 5th pitcher as we'll have to outscore in those contests.

 

Dude, stop and listen to me for a second. We know that Roberts is a better fit in the leadoff spot than Soriano. That's not the problem.

 

THE PROBLEM IS SORIANO'S INABILITY TO PERFORM WHILE BATTING OUTSIDE OF THE LEADOFF SPOT.

 

That has been pointed out to you over and over again, yet you continue to talk about Brian Roberts. It has nothing to do with Brian Roberts, it has to do with getting the best play out of Soriano.

 

Just stop it, please. You're on over your head.