MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[CarolinaCubFan]

Not sure whether or not this has been mentioned already but Dave Kaplan on Chicago Tribune Live last night, said that two of the top Orioles scouts (Bruce Kison) told him that they thought the deal between the Cubs and Baltimore would have been made a couple of weeks ago, only to find out that Peter Angelos didn't think the Orioles were getting enough in return, so he nixed the deal.

 

Gee, and Baltimore fans wonder why they suck every year in and out.

 

Until Angelos stop meddling around, Baltimore won't be a very good baseball team for awhile. Angelos is a George Steinbrenner wanna-be.

 

Even if all the rumored players are involved in the trade, Baltimore will still suck even if they make this trade. When the smoke clears and Roberts is traded to the Cubs, all Baltimore will have gotten for Miguel Tejada, Erik Bedard and Brian Roberts is Adam Jones and a bunch of guys who may or may not piece together a decent major league career. There is plenty of reason for Angelos to balk on this deal.

 

I say screw it if they don't like the offers currently out there. Promote Eric Patterson and let him platoon at 2b with DeRosa. This frees up DeRosa to sub at other positions and slowly grooms Patterson at 2b, mostly facing RHP. The combination of Patterson and DeRosa is probably not all that far off from what Roberts can provide, but for less money over less years. When Baltimore is in last place on July 31 and they still have Brian Roberts, and Roberts is miserable and is speaking loudly that he wants to be traded, maybe the demands will soften and maybe Patterson will have increased his trade value.

 

I'm not ready to start thinking about backup plans just yet. I'm still sticking to an opening day deadline, but I don't have a problem with putting a little pressure on the O's to make a choice.

 

Roberts

Fukudome

 

Any back up plan you can come up with won't match the production you would get with Roberts and Fukudome batting 1,2. That's a whole lot of OBP and speed on the bases with DLee, Aram, and Soriano to follow. We've been begging for OBP at the top of the order for a long time now. We are one transaction away from having it.

 

I know people are getting impatient, but I also feel some folks are undervalueing what Roberts would bring to our offense.

 

I doubt that Lou will bat Roberts and Fukudome 1, 2 because he wants to seperate the lefties in the lineup. I would think it would be Roberts and then Soriano, with Fukudome batting 5th.

 

You're probably right. I could be wrong, but everyone 1-5 seemed to have pretty good splits. Soriano in the 2 hole will decrease the OBP in front of Lee and Aram. Fukudome will probably be more OBP than power, so he makes better sense in the 2 hole to me. Two table setters in Front of Lee, Aram, Soriano. If Lee doesn't drive anyone in, he'll clog bases with decent speed and a .400 OBP. The same for Aram with his .360 ish OBP. Soriano in the 5 hole can just mash, his low OBP and power would be a good fit here.

 

I don't disagree that Roberts and Fukudome would be great at the top, but the Cubs seem to really emphasize splitting up the lefties.

 

Hopefully Lou has a brain fart one day while tinkering with the lineup. I know a big reason to mix lefty and righty's is to posibly force a pitching change. Scoring lots of runs will force a pitching change too.

[Grammy]

I think you would need to split up the lefties. Especially when you play a team like the Brewers who only have one lefty in an already suspect bullpen.

[Ivy.n.Denver]

I dont' see why those two need to be split up to break up the lefties - Roberts wouldn't bat left handed against a lefty pitcher.

 

There are two schools of thought regarding batting a left handed hitter #2 in the line-up:

 

1: If that player is a pull hitter he has a greater chance of getting a hit because it is more likely to have the 1st baseman on the bag. The 1 hitter (should be) on base at least 35% of the time, and since he'd be a threat to steal he'd be held on. This would open up a hole on the right side of the diamond.

 

2: A late pitching change at the two spot would most likely be to a left handed pitcher greatly reducing the runner on first's ability to steal. After reading this board for years (and posting maybe 4 or 5 times) I know how most of you feel about steals.

 

Having said that, I'd prefer a lefty in that spot (especially with righties at 3 and 4)with everything being equal.

 

Obviously I'd take a righty with a .850 OPS over a lefty with a .750 OPS in the 2 spot.

[jersey cubs fan]

I dont' see why those two need to be split up to break up the lefties - Roberts wouldn't bat left handed against a lefty pitcher.

 

There are two schools of thought regarding batting a left handed hitter #2 in the line-up:

 

1: If that player is a pull hitter he has a greater chance of getting a hit because it is more likely to have the 1st baseman on the bag. The 1 hitter (should be) on base at least 35% of the time, and since he'd be a threat to steal he'd be held on. This would open up a hole on the right side of the diamond.

 

2: A late pitching change at the two spot would most likely be to a left handed pitcher greatly reducing the runner on first's ability to steal. After reading this board for years (and posting maybe 4 or 5 times) I know how most of you feel about steals.

 

Having said that, I'd prefer a lefty in that spot (especially with righties at 3 and 4)with everything being equal.

 

Obviously I'd take a righty with a .850 OPS over a lefty with a .750 OPS in the 2 spot.

 

Weird, your profile says this is your 1st post.

 

Another thing about breaking up lefties is the Cubs also have another lefty, Pie. And from time to time, they will have Ward, and if Patterson or Fontenot gets some playing time, those guys as well.

 

I think the breaking up the lefties thing is completely overblown. But the Cubs always seem to focus on silly secondary issues.

[UMFan83]

12 posts in the last 2 days. Impressive guys!

 

Crap, I just bumped it.

[Post Count Padder]

12 posts in the last 2 days. Impressive guys!

 

Crap, I just bumped it.

Thanks for that

[JGalt73]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

However, the Orioles and Cubs have been negotiating for more than three months and still haven't reached a deal. The talk around baseball and among the scouts who have been at Orioles games the past couple of days is that one could be imminent, but that's been said since spring training began.

 

"I wouldn't say it would be a letdown if [a trade] doesn't happen. I'm going to play baseball either way. I love my teammates, the city of Baltimore. It's not like it would be the end of the world. But like I've said before, everybody wants to win and you always want to be in a situation where you feel like you have the best chance of doing that."

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

[Post Count Padder]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

However, the Orioles and Cubs have been negotiating for more than three months and still haven't reached a deal. The talk around baseball and among the scouts who have been at Orioles games the past couple of days is that one could be imminent, but that's been said since spring training began.

 

"I wouldn't say it would be a letdown if [a trade] doesn't happen. I'm going to play baseball either way. I love my teammates, the city of Baltimore. It's not like it would be the end of the world. But like I've said before, everybody wants to win and you always want to be in a situation where you feel like you have the best chance of doing that."

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

Well, isn't that a great description of this whole ordeal

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

fantastic

[RedFlash]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

fantastic

 

I'm glad they clear THAT up. :roll:

[Backtobanks]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

However, the Orioles and Cubs have been negotiating for more than three months and still haven't reached a deal. The talk around baseball and among the scouts who have been at Orioles games the past couple of days is that one could be imminent, but that's been said since spring training began.

 

"I wouldn't say it would be a letdown if [a trade] doesn't happen. I'm going to play baseball either way. I love my teammates, the city of Baltimore. It's not like it would be the end of the world. But like I've said before, everybody wants to win and you always want to be in a situation where you feel like you have the best chance of doing that."

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

 

I think the O's front office got Magic 8 Balls for Xmas. Make a decision, jeez.

[BCVM22]

I think the O's front office got Magic 8 Balls for Xmas. Make a decision, jeez.

 

This entire bit has instilled in me the desire to kick the collective O's front office in the Magic 8 Balls.

[ctcf]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

fantastic

 

hahahahahahahaha

[CarolinaCubFan]

I dont' see why those two need to be split up to break up the lefties - Roberts wouldn't bat left handed against a lefty pitcher.

 

There are two schools of thought regarding batting a left handed hitter #2 in the line-up:

 

1: If that player is a pull hitter he has a greater chance of getting a hit because it is more likely to have the 1st baseman on the bag. The 1 hitter (should be) on base at least 35% of the time, and since he'd be a threat to steal he'd be held on. This would open up a hole on the right side of the diamond.

 

2: A late pitching change at the two spot would most likely be to a left handed pitcher greatly reducing the runner on first's ability to steal. After reading this board for years (and posting maybe 4 or 5 times) I know how most of you feel about steals.

 

Having said that, I'd prefer a lefty in that spot (especially with righties at 3 and 4)with everything being equal.

 

Obviously I'd take a righty with a .850 OPS over a lefty with a .750 OPS in the 2 spot.

 

Weird, your profile says this is your 1st post.

 

Another thing about breaking up lefties is the Cubs also have another lefty, Pie. And from time to time, they will have Ward, and if Patterson or Fontenot gets some playing time, those guys as well.

 

I think the breaking up the lefties thing is completely overblown. But the Cubs always seem to focus on silly secondary issues.

 

Great Post Ivy, I wish there were more discussion on the boards like this.

 

As for what you are saying Goony, I agree. I love the way Lou manages this ball club. His knowledge of this game is top notch, and I'm more of a traditional baseball kind of guy. I like to see the game of baseball played. On the other hand, stats are for real. The guy who finds the perfect mixture of old tyme baseball and stats will be a guru in my book. Lou will talk OBP, he's trying, but some of his moves just make me scratch my head. Lou is a baseball god compared to Dusty though.

[wrigley23]

it sounds to me like Lou has accepted that Brian Roberts will not be coming. He decided to move soriano out of leadoff spot whether we get roberts or not...thus the theriot experiment. During the game today he mentioned fuko may be moved to the 2-hole. Speculation has ensued in the media that fuko may also be given a shot at leadoff. It appears the days of soriano hitting in the first two spots are done. I would guess he'll hit 3rd although anywhere between 3rd & 5th is possible. If we get roberts & hit fuko second, I think our offense will be seriously upgraded & our bench will be very strong as well. I have been impressed w/ both cedeno & patterson off the bench as well due to their speed & flexibility. I hope we keep at least one of them if the roberts deal happens. Either way, it looks like fuko will be in the top two spots w/ either roberts or theriot being the other one.

[RammyFanny]

"I think at some point that needs to happen," Roberts said. "I'm not saying it has to be today or tomorrow, but if it gets to be Opening Day, I don't really want to deal with it for two more months. I can't imagine that [a trade] would happen on April 20. That doesn't really make much sense. I'd think if it doesn't happen by the end of spring training, it's probably not going to.

 

I created this thread, and now Brian Roberts randomly selected my birthday when talking about the trade. It's like we have some sort of ESP or something.

[17 Seconds]

Your birthday is on 4/20? That's awesome.

[RammyFanny]

Your birthday is on 4/20? That's awesome.

I get that alot 8-)

[Outshined_One]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

fantastic

 

That just about makes my night complete.

[Oscar Zamora]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

However, the Orioles and Cubs have been negotiating for more than three months and still haven't reached a deal. The talk around baseball and among the scouts who have been at Orioles games the past couple of days is that one could be imminent, but that's been said since spring training began.

 

"I wouldn't say it would be a letdown if [a trade] doesn't happen. I'm going to play baseball either way. I love my teammates, the city of Baltimore. It's not like it would be the end of the world. But like I've said before, everybody wants to win and you always want to be in a situation where you feel like you have the best chance of doing that."

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

 

Okay that's it. I give up.

[JimSorgi]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

However, the Orioles and Cubs have been negotiating for more than three months and still haven't reached a deal. The talk around baseball and among the scouts who have been at Orioles games the past couple of days is that one could be imminent, but that's been said since spring training began.

 

"I wouldn't say it would be a letdown if [a trade] doesn't happen. I'm going to play baseball either way. I love my teammates, the city of Baltimore. It's not like it would be the end of the world. But like I've said before, everybody wants to win and you always want to be in a situation where you feel like you have the best chance of doing that."

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

 

Okay that's it. I give up.

 

Ha! You just gave up now? Oh you poor boy. I remember when I first realized we probably weren't going to get Brian Roberts. I sat in my closet and cried all day. I'm sure you'll be just fine though.

[badnews]

Lou identified it was a distraction for the younger players like Cedeno and Gallagher. The talks have come this far, there's no reason to suddenly halt things.

 

And now it looks like it's a distraction for nearly everyone.

 

There's great reason to halt things, the Cubs have been jerked around like spineless losers on this thing for too long. Maybe that's why.

 

The average person, at XYZ company, would keep his/her mouth shut. I am not denying human frustration its the public display that's unacceptable. There are many ways to view this situation but from a management standpoint; you can't have people outwardly chirping about how unhappy/uncomfortable they are about the current situation (that's something that should be addressed behind closed doors).

 

Yeah, I call foul on that. Saint Roberts has now expressed public frustration over this too, and if DeRosa's comments rank a 5 on the 1-10 "unacceptability scale" then Roberts' comments are a 4, 4.5. So while you were crapping on DeRosa you've inadvertently crapped on buddy Roberts.

 

You said it, brother.

 

I can't figure out who is the bigger crackpot though. Angelos for being the master of a sunk ship and unable to give his GM the ability to be.....oh, I don't know, how about a GM??

 

...or Hendry for being willing to humor these people for this long, causing backlash on his existing team and putting key players' futures up for grabs heading into a season.

 

Agreed. Hendry comes off as a weak and ineffectual milquetoast.

 

if roberts plays like he did in 2005, then he's better by a pretty good margin.

 

If Richard Hidalgo hits like he did in 2003 that'd be a pretty good pick-up.

 

Even if all the rumored players are involved in the trade, Baltimore will still suck even if they make this trade. When the smoke clears and Roberts is traded to the Cubs, all Baltimore will have gotten for Miguel Tejada, Erik Bedard and Brian Roberts is Adam Jones and a bunch of guys who may or may not piece together a decent major league career. There is plenty of reason for Angelos to balk on this deal.

 

Like the guys the Giants got for Pierzynski and so forth? I don't get this line of thinking. If a guy isn't in Baseball America's Top 10 he isn't worth anything. Look at what players have been traded for lately - guys like Tejada and Roberts *shouldn't* be getting these fantastic packages people are raving about. They balked on the Tejada deal for a long time and that's why they got what they did. So more balking hardly seems to be the answer.

 

Promote Eric Patterson and let him platoon at 2b with DeRosa.

 

Not a terrible idea.

 

We've been begging for OBP at the top of the order for a long time now. We are one transaction away from having it.

 

Yeah, once we get that career .351 OBP at the top of the lineup we're World Series favorites.

 

But the Cubs always seem to focus on silly secondary issues.

 

Sounds about right.

[badnews]

Jayson Stark[/url]"]MR. ROBERTS: Clubs that have spoken with the Cubs report that their frustration with the Orioles is mounting, after three months on the Brian Roberts trail. Despite all the names rumored to be in this deal and all the scouts who have hovered around all those names all spring, the Cubs have been indicating they still haven't been told by Baltimore what it would take to get this trade done.

 

Now add in the fact that it's less than two weeks to Opening Day, and that The Angelos Factor could gum up these talks for who knows how long, even if they make progress. And it's no wonder the Cubs are beginning to think this seemingly inevitable trade won't ever happen after all.

....

And the Cubs, who are looking for someone to caddy for Felix Pie in center, are still being held hostage by the Orioles. So until the Cubs know whether they're getting back Jay Payton in the Roberts deal, they've done nothing more than window-shop. According to one club that spoke with them, they have a list of 10-12 names that could fit -- a group that still includes Marlon Byrd, Coco Crisp, Jeremy Reed and a bunch of the other usual suspects. But for now at least, they haven't zeroed in on anybody on that list.

 

Does anyone still question why I feel like Jim Hendry is acting like the gutless wonder? 3+ months and, according to the bold part, the Cubs still don't have a good idea of what it would take to get this trade done? Are you kidding me? Who the hell puts up with this nonsense? I wonder if when Jim Hendry was in the dating scene he let his girlfriends pawn all of his stuff, steal all his money, and cheat on him, but he'd still be trying to reconcile.

 

I like that *only now* after 3 months of not knowing anything despite working on this, is frustration beginning to mount, roughly 2 months after anyone with a brain and some ganas would have abandoned this stupid game.

[UBlink]

Does anyone still question why I feel like Jim Hendry is acting like the gutless wonder?

 

It takes 2 parties, both of whom think they are getting a good deal, to make a trade. I'm not sure how guts enters into that.

[17 Seconds]

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080321-cubs-mark-derosa-trade-chicago,1,3320569.story

 

Add another notch to the distraction factor.