The NBA thread

[Guest]

Oh, and Jason Kapono...back-to-back. :D

[illiniguy]

If Ron's Clippers had MJ and Pippen, he'd have won a lot more there. And then all 3 could have gone to the Bulls for a three peat. And then bam, best PG ever. As it is, he's tied with BJ Armstrong/John Paxson for best of the 90s.

Chris Paul has always been on teams with equal talent as what Williams has had. Check your per Chandler and West are as good as what the Jazz have. Yet every year Williams teams go farther and win more. I wonder why that is.

[Warpticon]

If Ron's Clippers had MJ and Pippen, he'd have won a lot more there. And then all 3 could have gone to the Bulls for a three peat. And then bam, best PG ever. As it is, he's tied with BJ Armstrong/John Paxson for best of the 90s.

Chris Paul has always been on teams with equal talent as what Williams has had. Check your per Chandler and West are as good as what the Jazz have. Yet every year Williams teams go farther and win more. I wonder why that is.

 

...you can't be serious. There's no WAY you can be serious.

[illiniguy]

If Ron's Clippers had MJ and Pippen, he'd have won a lot more there. And then all 3 could have gone to the Bulls for a three peat. And then bam, best PG ever. As it is, he's tied with BJ Armstrong/John Paxson for best of the 90s.

Chris Paul has always been on teams with equal talent as what Williams has had. Check your per Chandler and West are as good as what the Jazz have. Yet every year Williams teams go farther and win more. I wonder why that is.

 

...you can't be serious. There's no WAY you can be serious.

I am going off of per, which I am told is gospel. Who besides Boozer is that good with Williams.

[David]

Yes, counting stats are also superior to rate stats.

I would rather have the point guard who wins at a higher clip. You can have your stats.

 

 

Ron Harper >>>>>> Deron Williams

 

Case closed.

I am talking over a career, how many games did Ron's clippers teams win again?

 

LOL... You're reaching. So if Harper had never played for the Clippers, my "argument" would be valid?

Did he win at Miami of Ohio? Did he really win at a high clip with the Cavs? He was on two great teams. Point to me Deron Williams' Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Oh and Harper could be better than Williams anyways. Harper could play before he got hurt. Then he did a great job of reinventing himself.

 

You were the one who said you'd take the guy with the higher winning percentage.

 

I just decided to be a smart ass.

[Guest]

career PER:

 

Deron Williams -- 16.5

Chris Paul -- 23.3

 

this season:

 

Deron Williams -- 20.6

Chris Paul -- 26.9

 

also, your whole karl malone/michael jordan argument is one of the most idiotic things i've ever read.

So according to per.

Chris Bosh, T.J. Ford, and Jose Calderon are all ahead of utah's best player. Yet Utah, playing in the much better west, has a much better record. Huh. Guess that per crap really isn't so fool proof.

 

Basketball isn't tennis where it's one guy against another. It's a TEAM game. A great player does need other pieces around him to win.

If they have 3 before the other teams top that is 3/5 of said team on the court.

 

Ford and Calderon are both PG's and Ford has only played in 21 games this year so you can't really count him.

 

And after the top two, the Raptors only have Kris Humphries above league average (which is 15) at 16.1 which puts them at three total (or four if you want to count Ford). The Jazz, however, have six players above league average in Williams, Boozer, Kirilenko, Millsap, Brewer and Harpring. They have two others - Ronnie Price at 14.9 (who I'm counting as well though he's only played 32 games) and Kyle Korver at 14.4 - who are nearly at league average. So that's eight players who are above, or very close to, league average for the Jazz as opposed to four for Toronto.

[illiniguy]

Yes, counting stats are also superior to rate stats.

I would rather have the point guard who wins at a higher clip. You can have your stats.

 

 

Ron Harper >>>>>> Deron Williams

 

Case closed.

I am talking over a career, how many games did Ron's clippers teams win again?

 

LOL... You're reaching. So if Harper had never played for the Clippers, my "argument" would be valid?

Did he win at Miami of Ohio? Did he really win at a high clip with the Cavs? He was on two great teams. Point to me Deron Williams' Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Oh and Harper could be better than Williams anyways. Harper could play before he got hurt. Then he did a great job of reinventing himself.

 

You were the one who said you'd take the guy with the higher winning percentage.

 

I just decided to be a smart ass.

Well you are selling Ron Harper short. Before he got hurt, he could really play. But, you might be too young to know that. Now Paxson or Armstrong would have worked a lot better.

Edited February 17, 2008 by illiniguy

[illiniguy]

career PER:

 

Deron Williams -- 16.5

Chris Paul -- 23.3

 

this season:

 

Deron Williams -- 20.6

Chris Paul -- 26.9

 

also, your whole karl malone/michael jordan argument is one of the most idiotic things i've ever read.

So according to per.

Chris Bosh, T.J. Ford, and Jose Calderon are all ahead of utah's best player. Yet Utah, playing in the much better west, has a much better record. Huh. Guess that per crap really isn't so fool proof.

 

Basketball isn't tennis where it's one guy against another. It's a TEAM game. A great player does need other pieces around him to win.

If they have 3 before the other teams top that is 3/5 of said team on the court.

 

Ford and Calderon are both PG's and Ford has only played in 21 games this year so you can't really count him.

 

And after the top two, the Raptors only have Kris Humphries above league average (which is 15) at 16.1 which puts them at three total (or four if you want to count Ford). The Jazz, however, have six players above league average in Williams, Boozer, Kirilenko, Millsap, Brewer and Harpring. They have two others - Ronnie Price at 14.9 (who I'm counting as well though he's only played 32 games) and Kyle Korver at 14.4 - who are nearly at league average. So that's eight players who are above, or very close to, league average for the Jazz as opposed to four for Toronto.

Do they have per dating back to the early 90's? I just don't think depth matters that much in the NBA. I am curious to know the Bulls rankings, but way too tired to look it up.

[Warpticon]

career PER:

 

Deron Williams -- 16.5

Chris Paul -- 23.3

 

this season:

 

Deron Williams -- 20.6

Chris Paul -- 26.9

 

also, your whole karl malone/michael jordan argument is one of the most idiotic things i've ever read.

So according to per.

Chris Bosh, T.J. Ford, and Jose Calderon are all ahead of utah's best player. Yet Utah, playing in the much better west, has a much better record. Huh. Guess that per crap really isn't so fool proof.

 

Basketball isn't tennis where it's one guy against another. It's a TEAM game. A great player does need other pieces around him to win.

If they have 3 before the other teams top that is 3/5 of said team on the court.

 

Ford and Calderon are both PG's and Ford has only played in 21 games this year so you can't really count him.

 

And after the top two, the Raptors only have Kris Humphries above league average (which is 15) at 16.1 which puts them at three total (or four if you want to count Ford). The Jazz, however, have six players above league average in Williams, Boozer, Kirilenko, Millsap, Brewer and Harpring. They have two others - Ronnie Price at 14.9 (who I'm counting as well though he's only played 32 games) and Kyle Korver at 14.4 - who are nearly at league average. So that's eight players who are above, or very close to, league average for the Jazz as opposed to four for Toronto.

Do they have per dating back to the early 90's? I just don't think depth matters that much in the NBA. I am curious to know the Bulls rankings, but way too tired to look it up.

 

basketball-reference.com.

[Derwood]

Ryan Theriot is a better SS than Hanley Ramirez because his team has a better record

[imb]

LOL

 

this thread took a turn for the hilarious

 

Deron Williams is a great, fantastic player, but he is no chris paul.

[SouthSideRyan]

Is it worth pointing out that Chris Paul sucks(going from memory, may be totally wrong) when he faces Deron's Jazz?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Western Conference
Team 	GB 
1. 	 * New Orleans 	-- 
2. 	 * Phoenix 	-- 
3. 	 LA Lakers 	1.5 
4. 	 * Utah 	3.0

[Outshined_One]

It bears repeating:

 

Dwight Howard is a force of nature.

 

However, I will give Green props for the cupcake dunk. That was one of the more creative things I've seen in awhile.

[TruffleShuffle]

It bears repeating:

 

Dwight Howard is a force of nature.

 

However, I will give Green props for the cupcake dunk. That was one of the more creative things I've seen in awhile.

 

dwight howard is a freak of nature. he's about as athletic as you'll see a guy of that size. and he's ridiculously strong too; i could see him really becoming dominant in the next two years.

[Banedon]

It bears repeating:

 

Dwight Howard is a force of nature.

 

However, I will give Green props for the cupcake dunk. That was one of the more creative things I've seen in awhile.

 

I would by no means classify myself as an NBA fan anymore. But I just saw the highlights of that dunk contest, and that thing looked like it was quite a show.

[hawkeyecub]

A man his size simply shouldn't be able to move the way he does with the power/strength he has. It's just not right.

 

As far as Paul and Williams go, they're both awesome and are both perfect fits for their team/style. Paul wouldn't do as well as Derron in Utah's offense and Williams wouldn't do as well as Paul in N.O.'s offense.

I love watching both of them. Williams is one of the few Illini players in recent history that I couldn't dislike even in college. With that said, Paul is definitely more productive and the better player right now. The way he plays where he's attacking so much to create and never turn the ball over is nuts.

[illiniguy]

Wasn't Shawn Kemp the same size as Dwight Howard?

[illiniguy]

A man his size simply shouldn't be able to move the way he does with the power/strength he has. It's just not right.

 

As far as Paul and Williams go, they're both awesome and are both perfect fits for their team/style. Paul wouldn't do as well as Derron in Utah's offense and Williams wouldn't do as well as Paul in N.O.'s offense.

I love watching both of them. Williams is one of the few Illini players in recent history that I couldn't dislike even in college. With that said, Paul is definitely more productive and the better player right now. The way he plays where he's attacking so much to create and never turn the ball over is nuts.

Please tell me you disliked Dee Brown.

[hawkeyecub]

A man his size simply shouldn't be able to move the way he does with the power/strength he has. It's just not right.

 

As far as Paul and Williams go, they're both awesome and are both perfect fits for their team/style. Paul wouldn't do as well as Derron in Utah's offense and Williams wouldn't do as well as Paul in N.O.'s offense.

I love watching both of them. Williams is one of the few Illini players in recent history that I couldn't dislike even in college. With that said, Paul is definitely more productive and the better player right now. The way he plays where he's attacking so much to create and never turn the ball over is nuts.

Please tell me you disliked Dee Brown.

 

Of course. Not on the same level of Augustine though. And I don't think anyone will ever approach Lucas Johnson's spot on top.

[illiniguy]

A man his size simply shouldn't be able to move the way he does with the power/strength he has. It's just not right.

 

As far as Paul and Williams go, they're both awesome and are both perfect fits for their team/style. Paul wouldn't do as well as Derron in Utah's offense and Williams wouldn't do as well as Paul in N.O.'s offense.

I love watching both of them. Williams is one of the few Illini players in recent history that I couldn't dislike even in college. With that said, Paul is definitely more productive and the better player right now. The way he plays where he's attacking so much to create and never turn the ball over is nuts.

Please tell me you disliked Dee Brown.

 

Of course. Not on the same level of Augustine though. And I don't think anyone will ever approach Lucas Johnson's spot on top.

Hell even I disliked Lucas Johnson. I don't know how you could not like Dee Brown. He was everything that was right about college basketball.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

lol @ the latest in this thread....Williams better than Paul? ... :rotfl:

[hawkeyecub]

A man his size simply shouldn't be able to move the way he does with the power/strength he has. It's just not right.

 

As far as Paul and Williams go, they're both awesome and are both perfect fits for their team/style. Paul wouldn't do as well as Derron in Utah's offense and Williams wouldn't do as well as Paul in N.O.'s offense.

I love watching both of them. Williams is one of the few Illini players in recent history that I couldn't dislike even in college. With that said, Paul is definitely more productive and the better player right now. The way he plays where he's attacking so much to create and never turn the ball over is nuts.

Please tell me you disliked Dee Brown.

 

Of course. Not on the same level of Augustine though. And I don't think anyone will ever approach Lucas Johnson's spot on top.

Hell even I disliked Lucas Johnson. I don't know how you could not like Dee Brown. He was everything that was right about college basketball.

 

I didn't hate him, he just had some annoying traits for an opposing fan and being on a rival team that never lost magnifies all of that. He was just much more demonstrative with celebrations or complaints. Williams was just always the same; under control, played smart, wasn't a me guy, didn't really taunt, whine or draw attention to himself. Plus I have a soft spot for PG's with a little baby fat.

[Exile on Waveland]

Ryan Theriot is a better SS than Hanley Ramirez because his team has a better record

 

You can't compare basketball and baseball.

[Derwood]

Ryan Theriot is a better SS than Hanley Ramirez because his team has a better record

 

You can't compare basketball and baseball.

 

i just did.

 

 

oh, and the dunk contest was insane