ITT, list crappy players who were good while Cardinals

[Soul]

Good lord why is Lou Brock in the hall of fame? Is his shiny 109 OPS+ really that impressive?

 

Dude, he was fast. Don't muddy the waters with actual logic.

 

The 3,023 hits probably didn't hurt.

[BigSlick]

Good lord why is Lou Brock in the hall of fame? Is his shiny 109 OPS+ really that impressive?

 

yeah, like ANY hall of fame voter knows WTF OPS+ is

 

:?

[Roast]

whatever happened to JRod?

 

 

Yeah, what did happen to him? I haven't heard crap about him all year.

[reggiemiller rules]

whatever happened to JRod?

 

 

Yeah, what did happen to him? I haven't heard crap about him all year.

 

He was in Memphis for most of the season this year and was not hitting very well. I believe he had some sort of leg injury that has him out the rest of the year.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Albert Pujols

[Roast]

Albert Pujols

 

...uhm...

[RynoRules]

Eckstein

Kennedy

Timlin

Kline

Suppan

Edmonds (he didn't approach those nos with Anaheim, did he?)

[Soul]

Kline

 

Watch the language.

[CubRock2]

Eckstein

Kennedy

Edmonds (he didn't approach those nos with Anaheim, did he?)

 

Edmonds came to St. Louis as his career was peaking. He hit sort of well in California, won a Gold Glove or two, then came to St. Louis and was protected with some big sluggers for his peak careers. Don't think he's the ideal example. Plus, he really sucks now.

 

Eckstein and Kennedy won a WS as the DP tandem for Anaheim. I have a hard time thinking that they sucked, especially as what they're doing in St. Louis is pretty much what they've always done in their careers.

 

No Kent Bottenfield? Isn't his "goodness" the one that started this whole mess of Cardnial pixie dust?

[Andy]

Eckstein

Kennedy

Edmonds (he didn't approach those nos with Anaheim, did he?)

 

Edmonds came to St. Louis as his career was peaking. He hit sort of well in California, won a Gold Glove or two, then came to St. Louis and was protected with some big sluggers for his peak careers. Don't think he's the ideal example. Plus, he really sucks now.

 

Eckstein and Kennedy won a WS as the DP tandem for Anaheim. I have a hard time thinking that they sucked, especially as what they're doing in St. Louis is pretty much what they've always done in their careers.

 

No Kent Bottenfield? Isn't his "goodness" the one that started this whole mess of Cardnial pixie dust?

Womack's what clinched it for me, especially since he had been pretty worthless with the Cubs the season before.

 

His highest OPS+, his highest OPS, his highest SLG, his highest OBP, his highest average all came in 2004 with STL. At age 34.

 

His 2003 OPS was .558. His 2005 OPS was .556.

 

It gets more unbelievable every time I look at these stats.

[Andy]

BTW, you can make an argument for Pujols. I mean, he was a 13th-round pick. Don't you think if he'd been even remotely this good wherever he was before that he'd have been picked higher? It's not like his game has any real weaknesses.

[Andy]

Matt Morris:

 

With the exception of a 4.72 hiccup in 2004, Morris didn't post an ERA above 4.11 in an STL uniform. Struck out 117 or more every season in an STL uniform. Finished 3rd in 01 CY voting (22 wins, 3.16 ERA, 185 K; worth pointing out that he gave up more hits than innings pitched that year so he was clearly lucky).

 

Since:

 

4.98 ERA in SF in 2006 (pitcher's park, no less), 117 K's (matching career low with STL), 63 BB's (one off the most he gave up in STL).

 

This year he has a 4.68 ERA (6.87 in 3 starts since trade to Pittsburgh) and his K/9 has plummeted to the 4.5/5 range.

 

He's only 33.

[Andy]

Julian Tavarez:

 

2.38 and 3.43 in two STL seasons.

 

7 home runs given up in 130 combined innings those years. (He has given up at least 7 every other full season he has pitched save 2003, including a whopping 11 this year already in Boston.)

 

7 seasons in his career of an ERA above 4.00, all with other teams.

 

Just for comparison's sake, Tavarez had a 4.52 ERA in 2001 with us, gave up 13 homers (career-high), 98 runs (2nd-highest), and walked 69 (2nd highest).

Edited August 21, 2007 by Andy

[reggiemiller rules]

Matt Morris:

 

With the exception of a 4.72 hiccup in 2004, Morris didn't post an ERA above 4.11 in an STL uniform. Struck out 117 or more every season in an STL uniform. Finished 3rd in 01 CY voting (22 wins, 3.16 ERA, 185 K; worth pointing out that he gave up more hits than innings pitched that year so he was clearly lucky).

 

Since:

 

4.98 ERA in SF in 2006 (pitcher's park, no less), 117 K's (matching career low with STL), 63 BB's (one off the most he gave up in STL).

 

This year he has a 4.68 ERA (6.87 in 3 starts since trade to Pittsburgh) and his K/9 has plummeted to the 4.5/5 range.

 

He's only 33.

 

While he is only 33 he also had arm surgery and just hasnt been the same pitcher since the injury. Just watching him after the arm surgery with the Cards you could tell that he wasnt the same pitcher. I just fail to see how a guy who was a first round pick who came up and had good years his first six can be described as lucky. He clearly had talent if he got drafted 12th, and like I said his problems have alot to do with arm injuries.

[Andy]

Steve Kline:

 

Has posted exactly one season outside STL better than the worst of his 4 in STL (1999 Montreal beats out 2003 STL).

[Andy]

Al Reyes:

 

Neifi slam notwithstanding, 2004 and 2005 - at age 33 and 34 - with STL were far and away better than any previous or succeeding years of his career.

[Andy]

Cal Eldred:

 

After being below average every year but 1 from 1997-2002, proceeds to put up 111, 111 and 195 (!) ERA+ with STL from 2003-05 (ages 35-37). No big league games played since leaving.

[SouthSideRyan]

Arguing for Matt Morris and Pujols is crazy. But Adam Kennedy might take the cake. This year is by far his worst major league season.

[Andy]

David Eckstein:

 

Not to say he's been good in STL (except 2004), but his AVG and OBP are both up consistently from his days in Anaheim.

 

Jason Isringhausen:

 

Slightly unfair example because he was good in Oakland in 2001 and 2002, but since coming to STL has been absolutely lights-out five straight years (ERA+ of 124 or above each year, 146 or above four of them).

 

Hector Luna:

 

Passable in 2005 and the 1st half of 2006, declines as soon as he is traded to Cleveland (.752 to .700 OPS), has had 9 ABs in Toronto this year.

 

Scott Spiezio:

 

Highest OPS+ (121) of his career in 2006 at age 33 with STL. Has been average this year, but still better than 7 of the previous 9 years of his career pre-Cardinals.

 

Preston Wilson:

 

Sucks horribly for Houston in first half of 2006 after being average in 2005, STL gets him and he immediately is passable for the rest of the year (99 OPS+).

 

Jeff Suppan:

 

Three lowest ERAs in his career - 2004-06 in STL. Also lowered his HR giving up from his career up to that point. Sucks in Milwaukee this year.

 

Josh Hancock (RIP):

 

Bounces around major leagues for four years, STL in 2006, pitches 77 innings at a 108 ERA+. Was off to an even better start this year before his accident.

 

Chris Duncan:

 

Didn't play double-digit games in the big leagues until age 25 but has become a slugger since. Had more home runs last year and this year (in about a half-season's worth of AB's each) than anyone currently on the 2007 Cubs.

 

Just in the last three years.

[TruffleShuffle]

abraham nunez

john rodriguez

jim edmonds (see numbers w/California versus numbers w/StL)

jeff suppan

randy flores

[CubInOK]

Can we put Brendan Ryan on this list?

[XZero771679666304]

BTW, you can make an argument for Pujols. I mean, he was a 13th-round pick. Don't you think if he'd been even remotely this good wherever he was before that he'd have been picked higher? It's not like his game has any real weaknesses.

 

Plenty of great players were taken in later rounds. You can't really make a case for Pujols. At all.

 

 

Or Morris for that matter.

[Derwood]

BTW, you can make an argument for Pujols. I mean, he was a 13th-round pick. Don't you think if he'd been even remotely this good wherever he was before that he'd have been picked higher? It's not like his game has any real weaknesses.

 

Plenty of great players were taken in later rounds. You can't really make a case for Pujols. At all.

 

 

Or Morris for that matter.

 

Mike Piazza - Round 61

[Soul]

Al Reyes:

 

Neifi slam notwithstanding, 2004 and 2005 - at age 33 and 34 - with STL were far and away better than any previous or succeeding years of his career.

 

Yeah, Steve Kline is this slimy thing that crawled out of a hole somewhere to pitch well only for the Cards, then slither back to whatever the hell place he came from.

[chuckywang]

Al Reyes:

 

Neifi slam notwithstanding, 2004 and 2005 - at age 33 and 34 - with STL were far and away better than any previous or succeeding years of his career.

 

Yeah, Steve Kline is this slimy thing that crawled out of a hole somewhere to pitch well only for the Cards, then slither back to whatever the hell place he came from.

 

Kline's 2003 season with the Cards was one of the worst of his career. However, his 2001 and 2004 seasons with the Cards were the two best seasons of his career.