ITT, list crappy players who were good while Cardinals

[chuckywang]

I'd like to provide Reggie Sanders as a counterexample. He was below average with the Cards, nowhere near as good as his Cinci days.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'd like to provide Reggie Sanders as a counterexample. He was below average with the Cards, nowhere near as good as his Cinci days.

 

That's because he was 36 by the time he got to St. Louis. He still put up one of the top 5 seasons of his 17 year career there(pending '07).

[wolf stansson]

This is a sad, sad thread.

 

 

whatever happened to JRod?

 

 

Yeah, what did happen to him? I haven't heard crap about him all year.

 

He was in Memphis for most of the season this year and was not hitting very well. I believe he had some sort of leg injury that has him out the rest of the year.

The leg injury is true, but the hitting badly isn't.

 

.375/.500/.875

[Andy]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

[Soul]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

 

Yeah, take your WS ring and leave us to wallow 8-)

[reggiemiller rules]

This is a sad, sad thread.

 

 

whatever happened to JRod?

 

 

Yeah, what did happen to him? I haven't heard crap about him all year.

 

He was in Memphis for most of the season this year and was not hitting very well. I believe he had some sort of leg injury that has him out the rest of the year.

The leg injury is true, but the hitting badly isn't.

 

I for some reason thought that he wasnt playing all that well. Either way I dont see him having much of a future with the franchise. With Schumaker and Ludwick doing well this year, I think those two have moved ahead of him in the organizations eyes.

 

.375/.500/.875

[wolf stansson]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

[wolf stansson]

This is a sad, sad thread.

 

 

whatever happened to JRod?

 

 

Yeah, what did happen to him? I haven't heard crap about him all year.

 

He was in Memphis for most of the season this year and was not hitting very well. I believe he had some sort of leg injury that has him out the rest of the year.

The leg injury is true, but the hitting badly isn't.

 

 

 

.375/.500/.875

I for some reason thought that he wasnt playing all that well. Either way I dont see him having much of a future with the franchise. With Schumaker and Ludwick doing well this year, I think those two have moved ahead of him in the organizations eyes.

Yeah, he is done with the big club.

[Lockes Eye Scar]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

don't forget aramis ramirez

[wolf stansson]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

don't forget aramis ramirez

And year one of the Glendon Rusch era.

[Andy]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

Lieber - granted he had his best years with the Cubs, but it was in his prime years and he wasn't a whole lot worse with anybody else

 

Dempster - Not much rebuttal here except that no one else ever tried him closing before, who's to know if he'd been good had they done that from the start.

 

The rest I suppose there's really no answer for. It probably seems like you guys have had it better because your flukes have actually helped you win multiple division titles. But point taken.

[Andy]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

don't forget aramis ramirez

And year one of the Glendon Rusch era.

More than cancelled out by Years 2 and 3. (That's our own fault, by the way. Stupid Hendry.)

[wolf stansson]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

don't forget aramis ramirez

And year one of the Glendon Rusch era.

More than cancelled out by Years 2 and 3. (That's our own fault, by the way. Stupid Hendry.)

Ok, Derrek Lee, Ted Lilly, JASON MARQUIS, Matt Murton, Jacque Jones, Eric Karros, Mark Grudzielanek...

[soccer10k]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

don't forget aramis ramirez

 

ARam had already put up a .300/.350/.536/.886 line in Pittsburgh at the age of 23 and came to the Cubs at 25. Bad example.

[JimSorgi]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

don't forget aramis ramirez

And year one of the Glendon Rusch era.

More than cancelled out by Years 2 and 3. (That's our own fault, by the way. Stupid Hendry.)

Ok, Derrek Lee, Ted Lilly, JASON MARQUIS, Matt Murton, Jacque Jones, Eric Karros, Mark Grudzielanek...

LOL

[nolanwood]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

The following should be excluded from you list: Sosa (makes no sense because damn near his entire career was with the Cubs), Lieber (has had quality seasons with Pitt, Yanks & the Phillies), Bellhorn (which season with the Cubs was any good?), Dempster (he had one great season with Florida, and he may very well have had other quality seasons if he was removed from his starter role before joining the Cubs).

[soccer10k]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

Sammy Sosa is a horrible example.

 

The others I'll give you though.

[nolanwood]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

don't forget aramis ramirez

And year one of the Glendon Rusch era.

More than cancelled out by Years 2 and 3. (That's our own fault, by the way. Stupid Hendry.)

Ok, Derrek Lee, Ted Lilly, JASON MARQUIS, Matt Murton, Jacque Jones, Eric Karros, Mark Grudzielanek...

 

Marquis has had equally good years with the Cards, Jones' best years were with the Twins, Grudzie has had equally good years with the Dodgers, Royals and Cardinals. And mentioning DLee and Lilly is a joke.

[wolf stansson]

Lol, denial.

 

I have just as good excuses for the Cardinals you guys list, but there really would be no point. Some of you will never realize that there is nothing special going on with the Cardinals. They have just put better teams together than the Cubs for the most part since 2000.

 

Both teams have had great luck with players (pujols, lee, etc) and both have had bad luck (Prior, Wood, Ankiel, Kyle, etc).

 

You guys aren't special. You just follow a poorly run team.

Edited August 21, 2007 by wolf stansson

[nolanwood]

Lol, denial.

 

I have just as good excuses for the Cardinals you guys list, but there really would be no point. Some of you will never realize that there is nothing special going on with the Cardinals. They have just put better teams together than the Cubs for the most part since 2000.

 

Those aren't excuses, you can check their stats.

 

Let's hear your excuses, then....

 

Starting with...Nunez?

 

We follow a poorly run team, and you follow a lucky team...

[soccer10k]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

don't forget aramis ramirez

And year one of the Glendon Rusch era.

More than cancelled out by Years 2 and 3. (That's our own fault, by the way. Stupid Hendry.)

Ok, Derrek Lee, Ted Lilly, JASON MARQUIS, Matt Murton, Jacque Jones, Eric Karros, Mark Grudzielanek...

 

Ted Lilly went from the AL to the NL so his ERA was expected to drop.

 

Jason Marquis should be an example about the Cardinals. He put up ERA's of 5.04 and 5.53 his last two years in Atlanta before putting up a 3.71 and 4.13 his first two years with the Cardinals which were also his first two full years as a starter.

 

Matt Murton is still young and has an OBP over .400 and OPS over .950 in his career at AAA.

 

Jacque's slugging was a bit up last year and his OBP was right about career norms. He wasn't that much better than he was in Minnesota.

 

Eric Karros was only a bit better in Chicago than he was in Los Angeles the year before.

 

You're really reaching with some of these examples.

[wolf stansson]

Let's hear your excuses, then....

 

Starting with...Nunez?

I said I'm not going to list them. It'd be a gigantic waste of time to look up all these stats trying to illuminate the obvious facts you seem to be in the dark about.

 

As for Nunez, I never said the Cardinals haven't gotten lucky with players. I just said the Cubs have too.

[wolf stansson]

You're really reaching with some of these examples.

So are you guys. That's my whole point dude.

[nolanwood]

Let's hear your excuses, then....

 

Starting with...Nunez?

I said I'm not going to list them. It'd be a gigantic waste of time to look up all these stats trying to illuminate the obvious facts you seem to be in the dark about.

 

As for Nunez, I never said the Cardinals haven't gotten lucky with players. I just said the Cubs have too.

 

It took me about 15 seconds to check the stats of each player you were incorrect in naming. It's not that difficult. Not even 1/4 of the players you mentioned were justifiable, as they had equally (if not better) seasons with other teams.

Edited August 21, 2007 by nolanwood

[jersey cubs fan]

This is a sad, sad thread.

It's sad to us because it's so ridiculous how this keeps happening. You can feel free to come up with counter-examples from our own team though. :wink:

Matt Clement, Joe Borowski, Sammy Sosa, Jon Lieber, Mark Bellhorn, Ryan Dempster, Michael Barrett, and I'm sure many, many more.

 

The following should be excluded from you list: Sosa (makes no sense because damn near his entire career was with the Cubs), Lieber (has had quality seasons with Pitt, Yanks & the Phillies), Bellhorn (which season with the Cubs was any good?), Dempster (he had one great season with Florida, and he may very well have had other quality seasons if he was removed from his starter role before joining the Cubs).

 

In 2002, Bellhorn did this, .258 .374 .512, for an OPS+ of 133. He was also pretty good for Boston in 2004. But he did stink for most of the rest of his career.

 

Todd Van Poppel was a major bust who managed to stick around for a long time, before putting up back to back good years out of the pen for the Cubs, including a career year performance in 2001.

 

Regardless, the whole theme of this thread, and all the others like it, whining about the luck of the Cardinals is truly sad.