Cubs trade Barrett to Padres for Rob Bowen & Kyler Burke

[Sarcastic]

I just thought of one added benefit of this trade. if Hill was tipping his pitches, the Cubs will now know what he was doing and can correct it.

 

Why would trading Barrett allow them to find out how Hill was tipping pitches?

[Rob]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll

 

I'll do it for you.

 

:roll:

 

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player?

 

In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths.

Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher

 

Then why does Manny cut off throws in CF?

 

Bottom line: Manny's gaffes are much more blatant and disastrous than Barrett's.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I just thought of one added benefit of this trade. if Hill was tipping his pitches, the Cubs will now know what he was doing and can correct it.

 

Why would trading Barrett allow them to find out how Hill was tipping pitches?

 

maybe Bowen knew about it

[Mephistopheles]

yay the cubs are now a worse team than they were yesterday. Both today and the future.

 

awesome!

[Shilzzz]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll

 

I'll do it for you.

 

:roll:

 

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player?

 

In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths.

Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher

 

Then why does Manny cut off throws in CF?

 

Bottom line: Manny's gaffes are much more blatant and disastrous than Barrett's.

 

Blatant and Disastrous Gaffes Statline for both, please.

[SouthSideRyan]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll

 

I'll do it for you.

 

:roll:

 

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player?

 

In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths.

Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher

 

Um, that hurts your argument. Manny makes boneheaded plays and costs lots of runs in one of the easiest defensive positions. My point is the reasoning for calling Barrett a bad baseball player(always you said, even when he was putting up great OPS+s) was bad baserunning and bad defense, which Manny certainly trumps him in.

[Sarcastic]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll

 

I'll do it for you.

 

:roll:

 

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player?

 

In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths.

Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher

 

Um, that hurts your argument. Manny makes boneheaded plays and costs lots of runs in one of the easiest defensive positions. My point is the reasoning for calling Barrett a bad baseball player(always you said, even when he was putting up great OPS+s) was bad baserunning and bad defense, which Manny certainly trumps him in.

 

And of course, Barrett's offensive numbers were much rarer at his position than Manny's.

[Rob]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll

 

I'll do it for you.

 

:roll:

 

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player?

 

In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths.

Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher

 

Then why does Manny cut off throws in CF?

 

Bottom line: Manny's gaffes are much more blatant and disastrous than Barrett's.

 

Blatant and Disastrous Gaffes Statline for both, please.

 

Throws cut off in CF (Manny) - 1

 

Throws cut off in CF (Barrett) - 0

[Rob]

Does anybody else get the irresistable urge to shove Paul Sullivan into a locker every time they see him?

[nilodnayr]

Does anybody else get the irresistable urge to shove Paul Sullivan into a locker every time they see him?

 

Ugh, not only is Z spending more time on the internet, he must have stolen Rob's password!

[hawkeyecub]

Anyone hear Boers and Bernstein today? They were pretty adamant that Barrett isn't very well liked in the clubhouse and that the person his teammates see is a different person than the fans and media see.

 

They kept claiming that his teammates saw him as phony and a jerk (although they stopped short of cancer) and even though they won't say it, most of the clubhouse is happier now.

They talked about how Lou and Hendry had discussed him before and as we all suspected, Hendry was a big Barrett guy and Lou did not like him.

 

I don't listen to them very often and take things they say with a grain of salt, but while this would be a bit of a surprise, it wouldn't shock me.

 

I will say that while I don't think chemistry makes much of a difference on a major league team, the one place on my team where I don't want a divisive figure is catcher. I don't think losing him will create a dramatic improvement with the pitching staff or other position players, but it's another factor worth taking into consideration.

 

Now I just hope we can get Soto up here soon to see what he and Bowen can do.

[nilodnayr]

I just thought of one added benefit of this trade. if Hill was tipping his pitches, the Cubs will now know what he was doing and can correct it.

 

Why would trading Barrett allow them to find out how Hill was tipping pitches?

 

Because the cubs played against Bowen and the Padres Sunday. If Hill was tipping his pitches, you better believe all the Padres hitters were told what to look for.

[KingCubsFan]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll

 

I'll do it for you.

 

:roll:

 

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player?

 

In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths.

Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher

 

Um, that hurts your argument. Manny makes boneheaded plays and costs lots of runs in one of the easiest defensive positions. My point is the reasoning for calling Barrett a bad baseball player(always you said, even when he was putting up great OPS+s) was bad baserunning and bad defense, which Manny certainly trumps him in.

Is there any stat that shows how much each player's defense costs their teams? Because, IIRC, when there was talk of Manny being traded, many on this board were posting stats showing that Manny really wasn't that bad in the field, and that his defensive lapses were overblown. Either way, it's pretty worthless to compare Barrett to Ramirez. Totally different players at different positions.

[Rob]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll

 

I'll do it for you.

 

:roll:

 

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player?

 

In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths.

Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher

 

Um, that hurts your argument. Manny makes boneheaded plays and costs lots of runs in one of the easiest defensive positions. My point is the reasoning for calling Barrett a bad baseball player(always you said, even when he was putting up great OPS+s) was bad baserunning and bad defense, which Manny certainly trumps him in.

Is there any stat that shows how much each player's defense costs their teams? Because, IIRC, when there was talk of Manny being traded, many on this board were posting stats showing that Manny really wasn't that bad in the field, and that his defensive lapses were overblown. Either way, it's pretty worthless to compare Barrett to Ramirez. Totally different players at different positions.

 

You can use the DT translations, though they aren't that accurate. And the Dewan +/- system and Probabilistic Model of Range have trouble with the Big Green Monster.

[cjbucks]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll

 

I'll do it for you.

 

:roll:

 

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player?

 

In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths.

Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher

 

Then why does Manny cut off throws in CF?

 

Bottom line: Manny's gaffes are much more blatant and disastrous than Barrett's.

 

Blatant and Disastrous Gaffes Statline for both, please.

 

Barretts BDG- 34.8 is much higher than Manny who's is 22.7 quite a significant difference. According to my calculations it amounts to a difference of 2.7 wins per year in Mannys favor........................you can look it up.

 

 

OK OK I was just trying to illustrate that Barret's baseball skills other than hitting are below average and if he is hitting below average he is really a liability. Looking at it he is still hitting probably slightly above average for someone of his positon. I have seen a couple of his plays cost the Cub's games this year - I have not seen any of Manny's plays cost the Sox but as I said I don't watch them every day.

[NCCubFan]

hyperbole is clearly a myth.

 

That was a clutch quote abuck.

 

Who's hyperbole?

 

he's a LOOGY

Not just a LOOGY, the best damn LOOGY in history. A LOOGY so good he single-handedly wins the World Series for whatever team he's on. :D

[Exile on Waveland]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll

 

I'll do it for you.

 

:roll:

 

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player?

 

In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths.

Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher

 

Um, that hurts your argument. Manny makes boneheaded plays and costs lots of runs in one of the easiest defensive positions. My point is the reasoning for calling Barrett a bad baseball player(always you said, even when he was putting up great OPS+s) was bad baserunning and bad defense, which Manny certainly trumps him in.

 

Um, no it doesn't. While I certainly don't agree that Michael Barrett has been a bad baseball player for the Cubs, your arguments aren't persuasive. However important defense actually is, there is no doubt it's far more important at catcher than left field. Ramirez makes bad decisions and costs his teams runs every once in awhile, a catcher doing the same thing would negatively affect the game far more frequently. Does Barrett make more bonehead plays than Ramirez? I have no idea, honestly. I'm unaware of a stat entitled BoneHeadPlays+.

 

Also, asking if Manny Ramirez is a bad baseball player is disingenuous and condescending. Ramirez is so far above Barret offensively it's silly to discuss. Those 59 points of OPS+ leave a lot of wiggle room as the previous poster said. Something tells me you know this.

 

Again, I side with you on the this argument. Barrett's offense has outweighed his defensive shortcomings up to this point -- though that may not have been the case to this point in 2007. However, if I was a neutral party, I'd be less than convinced of that.

[danonwaveland]

Rob wrote:

Does anybody else get the irresistable urge to shove Paul Sullivan into a locker every time they see him?

 

nilodnary wrote:

Ugh, not only is Z spending more time on the internet, he must have stolen Rob's password!

 

Nicely done, nilod!

[SouthSideRyan]

Re: Boers & Bernstein, I enjoy them from time to time, find them pretty amusing, but I never really pay much attention to their opinions or sources. They're not sports guys, they're entertainment guys.

 

Re: Manny, I tried to clarify earlier that the poster was calling Barrett a bad baseball player because he's bad on the basepaths and defense, implying that you can't be a good one if you are.(as he pointed out, even in good offensive years for Barret, he was still "a bad baseball player")

 

My point on Manny being a LF hurting the argument is that he had the same problems that supposedly make a "bad baseball player" and he was doing it at a position which is easier to fill than catcher.

[Soul]

Let's talk about offense. You know, that precious commodity we are losing more & more of every day?

 

Barrett last season:

 

.307 .368 .517 OPS+ 121

 

He's had 3 straight years of OPS+ above 100, as a *catcher*, before this season.

 

Now we lose his bat, in addition to losing Ramirez & Lee (at some point).

 

This offense is very quickly becoming meek as a teenie bopper. Yes, Barrett was sucking this year, but his bat very likely would not have continued to. I sure hope Bowen can fill some of that gap -- I suppose he's not likely to be the kind of head case Barrett is.

 

I'm not uncomfortable with trading Barrett. I'm just very skittish over what is happening to our hitting lineup over the past couple weeks.

[nilodnayr]

Good riddance to Barrett, now the team will be error free!!!!! Oh crap...

[killthegoat06]

Is Bowen or the minor leaguer any good?

[killthegoat06]

I didn't like the idea of trading barrett like most people, but I didn't mind it if we got something good for him. I don't know much about our acquisitions, but they don't sound awe-inspiring so far.

 

Thus, I'm bummed about this trade.

[nilodnayr]

I didn't like the idea of trading barrett like most people, but I didn't mind it if we got something good for him. I don't know much about our acquisitions, but they don't sound awe-inspiring so far.

 

Thus, I'm bummed about this trade.

 

As you should be. Bowen is an older Geovany Soto, the prospect is rawer than sushi and stinking worse than week old sushi, but has upside.

[dalgreen]

I didn't like the idea of trading barrett like most people, but I didn't mind it if we got something good for him. I don't know much about our acquisitions, but they don't sound awe-inspiring so far.

 

Thus, I'm bummed about this trade.

 

I am one of the few who has really never liked Barrett. But you have to look at it from the standpoint of there's no way he would be re-signed next year to a similar contract that he's received over the past four years. Also, as much as I dislike Hendry, maybe some players expressed some dislike for Barrett. I don't know. Having said that, if you were another MLB team would you have given up a lot for Barrett? I sure wouldn't.

 

I still think it's funny that seven years ago Felipe Alou said that Barrett would never be a good MLB catcher (from a defensive standpoint). Seven years later I think Barrett is closer to being a bad defensive catcher than a good one.