Cubs trade Barrett to Padres for Rob Bowen & Kyler Burke

[CubColtPacer]

So I don't have to sift through 46 pages of pure anger, can anyone give me a brief rundown of these guys?

 

Bowen is a former good prospect out of the Twins organization who had an absolutely awful season at the age of 24 in AA and then a little better season in AAA in 05. He had a 733 OPS as the Padres backup catcher last year, and has an 810 this year (age 26). He is reputed to be a strong defensive catcher, although that is in great dispute. He is a low BA, high walk, with decent but not great pop in his bat.

 

Burke is a 19 year old drafted in the supplemental round who has been absolutely terrible his first two years in the minors, but still has a lot of tools that could possibly pan out.

[Sarcastic]

What signs have been given to make us think Soto is being considered? It seems pretty clear that they are planning to use Bowen as the main catcher. If they wanted to bring up Soto, why trade for a catcher?

 

Because Blanco is on the shelf, maybe for the year, and Hill sucks. The Cubs need two catchers right now. I would be surprised if Bowen is the full-time starter.

 

Hill does suck, but they've been giving him more playing time. I'm not sure they know that he sucks, and I wouldn't discount the possibility of the Cubs keeping him on as back up catcher.

 

I think Hill will be sent down. I really don't see Bowen replacing Barret. He isn't a full-time catcher. That just wouldn't make sense.

 

In the short-term maybe, but I would hope Hendry and Lou recognize the roster is missing a full-time receiver.

 

The organization has a history of giving players more playing time than their talent justifies. See Neifi, Macias, etc. I'm not convinced in the least that the trade was made to make room for Soto, and if it had been, they could have at least tried to get something of value for him. A back up catcher is pretty worthless.

[TruffleShuffle]

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

A baseball player is the sum of his parts. Barrett may not have a good glove or be an astute baserunner, but his offensive contributions made him a far superior baseball player than many of the other more defensive-minded catchers who you probably think were better.

[cjbucks]

So I don't have to sift through 46 pages of pure anger, can anyone give me a brief rundown of these guys?

 

Personally I wouldn't call this pure anger. If you ask me, it was one of the calmest trade threads ever on this board. Most people were resigned to the fact Barrett was going, not a lot of people are ecstatic about the deal, but there's only been a couple people who've gone ballistic.

 

Bowen's been a mediocre producing catcher in his pro career who is having a good 2007 but probably won't sustain the numbers. He'd be a nice cheap backup for a team with a good starter, but he's probably not starter material himself, at least in the long haul, but he'll be stable defensively.

 

The kid whose parents were desperate for a name that started with K has some physical ability but hasn't done jack squat as a pro (600 OPS in rookie ball and sub 600 in low A ball).

 

beautiful.................. :lol:

[TMan92]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

I'd be pretty surprised if he is backing up Josh Bard, considering his inability to hit so far this year. The Padres are definitely in need of a good hitter, and Barrett is much more likely to be that for them than Bard is.

 

It will be fun to see what happens to the Pads ERA when he pitches. It is either going to make one side or the other of the Barrett argument look silly.

[CubinNY]

So I don't have to sift through 46 pages of pure anger, can anyone give me a brief rundown of these guys?

 

Bowen is a former good prospect out of the Twins organization who had an absolutely awful season at the age of 24 in AA and then a little better season in AAA in 05. He had a 733 OPS as the Padres backup catcher last year, and has an 810 this year (age 26). He is reputed to be a strong defensive catcher, although that is in great dispute. He is a low BA, high walk, with decent but not great pop in his bat.

 

Burke is a 19 year old drafted in the supplemental round who has been absolutely terrible his first two years in the minors, but still has a lot of tools that could possibly pan out.

Good synopsis.

 

I don't really think all that many people are angry.

[soccer10k]

I like this trade.

 

1) The Cubs didn't get expensive, arthritic crap in return like they did last year when they dumped Maddux. Bowen is making the minimum (I believe) and the other guy is a minor leaguer.

 

2) My big fear with Barrett was that either A) he would hit well for the rest of the year, Hendry would resign him to an expensive, multiyear deal and Barrett would suck immediately or B) he would continue to be below average offensively (I shudder at his .307 OBP), no other teams would want him, and Hendry would overpay him with a multiyear deal. So all this does is all but ensure Barrett won't be a Cub next year which is good.

 

Barrett is only going to get worse and this only paves the way for Hill or Soto to be the catcher in the future. And if Bowen progresses and hits well, then we have a good inexpensive catcher. If he doesn't, he's gone at the end of the year.

[cjbucks]

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

A baseball player is the sum of his parts. Barrett may not have a good glove or be an astute baserunner, but his offensive contributions made him a far superior baseball player than many of the other more defensive-minded catchers who you probably think were better.

 

Just so I know for future reference who are the defensive minded catchers that I think are better?

[jersey cubs fan]

The organization has a history of giving players more playing time than their talent justifies. See Neifi, Macias, etc. I'm not convinced in the least that the trade was made to make room for Soto, and if it had been, they could have at least tried to get something of value for him. A back up catcher is pretty worthless.

 

I wouldn't say worthless. You need one, obviously. The backup catcher starts more games than the backup at any other position. I'd rather have this guy backing up than Henry Blanco. But I do think the Cubs will give him a lot more playing time that he likely deserves, at least for the next few months.

[CubsWin]

Unless Bowen is able to maintain his production from the right side against lefties this season and the Cubs platoon him with someone who is good against righties, this trade looks to hurt the Cubs in the short term and perhaps the long term as well.

 

I believe that trading someone who is a flashpoint for confrontation amongst a tight knit group of 25 guys can make a difference in how those players perform as a team. These are human beings who are playing these games, after all, not probability machines who produce at certain levels no matter what the conditions are. Can it make a big enough difference to counter the disparity in Barrett's and Bowen's production? I doubt it.

 

While it doesn't seem very likely to me that this trade will help the Cubs win more games this season. It's possible that it could, but that would take the Cubs being dead on right with their scouting report of Bowen and finding his platoon partner Soto and having him perform well at the major league level.

 

I sure hope Soto gets called up out of this. Even though he is a right-handed batter, he has been hitting right-handed pitching this season at a .333/.409/.586/.995 clip in 111 ABs in AAA. At least we would have that to be excited about. I also hope that the Cubs are right and that Bowen continues the growth as a hitter that he has shown this year and last. I'm just not very hopeful that he will do that to the extent that he will ever match Barrett offensively.

[moorecg]

So I don't have to sift through 46 pages of pure anger, can anyone give me a brief rundown of these guys?

 

Personally I wouldn't call this pure anger. If you ask me, it was one of the calmest trade threads ever on this board. Most people were resigned to the fact Barrett was going, not a lot of people are ecstatic about the deal, but there's only been a couple people who've gone ballistic.

 

Bowen's been a mediocre producing catcher in his pro career who is having a good 2007 but probably won't sustain the numbers. He'd be a nice cheap backup for a team with a good starter, but he's probably not starter material himself, at least in the long haul, but he'll be stable defensively.

 

The kid whose parents were desperate for a name that started with K has some physical ability but hasn't done jack squat as a pro (600 OPS in rookie ball and sub 600 in low A ball).

 

beautiful.................. :lol:

 

I just figured Mom and Dad were fighting over Kyle and Tyler....

[Sarcastic]

Barret has often been a good hitter (though not this year) but has always been a bad baseball player. I enjoyed having him on the Cubs but I am willing to move in a different direction because I'm not sure this direction has worked for Barrett or the Cubs. Is he going to be the full time starter in SD or is he going to be a backup to Josh Bard.

 

I'd be pretty surprised if he is backing up Josh Bard, considering his inability to hit so far this year. The Padres are definitely in need of a good hitter, and Barrett is much more likely to be that for them than Bard is.

 

It will be fun to see what happens to the Pads ERA when he pitches. It is either going to make one side or the other of the Barrett argument look silly.

 

Barrett joined the Cubs in 2004. In the 3.5 years he's been with the Cubs, they've allowed 1622 earned runs in the 3426 innings that he's caught. In the 1455 innings that someone else caught, they've allowed 699 earned runs.

 

So, with Barrett catching, Cubs pitchers have a 4.26 ERA.

With someone else catching, Cubs pitchers have a 4.32 ERA

 

That debate is already over. Catcher's ERA is BS.

[CubColtPacer]

What signs have been given to make us think Soto is being considered? It seems pretty clear that they are planning to use Bowen as the main catcher. If they wanted to bring up Soto, why trade for a catcher?

 

Because Blanco is on the shelf, maybe for the year, and Hill sucks. The Cubs need two catchers right now. I would be surprised if Bowen is the full-time starter.

 

Hill does suck, but they've been giving him more playing time. I'm not sure they know that he sucks, and I wouldn't discount the possibility of the Cubs keeping him on as back up catcher.

 

I think Hill will be sent down. I really don't see Bowen replacing Barret. He isn't a full-time catcher. That just wouldn't make sense.

 

In the short-term maybe, but I would hope Hendry and Lou recognize the roster is missing a full-time receiver.

 

The organization has a history of giving players more playing time than their talent justifies. See Neifi, Macias, etc. I'm not convinced in the least that the trade was made to make room for Soto, and if it had been, they could have at least tried to get something of value for him. A back up catcher is pretty worthless.

 

There was a comment made about twenty pages ago about how Levine was talking on the radio that Hendry likes Soto as an everyday player. I've heard enough things that Levine said that were wrong though to not put that much stock in it though.

[jersey cubs fan]

if Bowen progresses and hits well, then we have a good inexpensive catcher. If he doesn't, he's gone at the end of the year.

 

I highly doubt he's gone at the end of the year no matter how he progresses the rest of 2007.

[Guest]

Something to remember about Soto is that this is his third year on the 40-man, he's going to have to stick next year in the big leagues.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Thanks for the responses guys. Interesting trade to say the least. I'm not against it, but I don't really know what to think at this point. I'm sad to see Barrett go since I really liked him, but he definitely needed to be shipped off.

[USSoccer]

So I don't have to sift through 46 pages of pure anger, can anyone give me a brief rundown of these guys?

 

Personally I wouldn't call this pure anger. If you ask me, it was one of the calmest trade threads ever on this board. Most people were resigned to the fact Barrett was going, not a lot of people are ecstatic about the deal, but there's only been a couple people who've gone ballistic.

 

Bowen's been a mediocre producing catcher in his pro career who is having a good 2007 but probably won't sustain the numbers. He'd be a nice cheap backup for a team with a good starter, but he's probably not starter material himself, at least in the long haul, but he'll be stable defensively.

 

The kid whose parents were desperate for a name that started with K has some physical ability but hasn't done jack squat as a pro (600 OPS in rookie ball and sub 600 in low A ball).

 

I would agree with all of this, with the caveat that this trade will look much worse if SS or RF aren't upgraded fairly quickly.

 

If we want to contend, we can't wait til July 31st to make a move. We're 7 back and 5 under. The time to make a run is now.

[nilodnayr]

 

Actually, its either of those two, not both. And if I were the cubs and held onto Barrett for the rest of the year I sure as hell would offer him arbitration. I'd try to have him agree to decline it, but if he wouldnt agree to that, worst case scenario is you get one of the best offensive catchers in the league for a 1 year deal. Most likely he'll be offered a multi-year contract that will be a lot more valuable to him than returning to a team that doesnt want him. Either way its a win win for the cubs, unless of course they do something stupid like trade him.

 

It's either one but no team would sign him before 12/1. Plus, he'd be dumb not to except, unless you're assuming he changes how he has played so far this year and there's an expected demand for him.

 

One more year of Barrett equals one more year of a likely declining C both defensively and offensively (from the '06 Barrett) and gives Soto his 3rd year at Iowa.

 

I'm all for Soto, this hopefully cleared the way.

 

Of course no one would sign him before 12/1, not many players do (unless we are talking about the idiot Giants). But Barrett would be dumb to accept arbi. 1 year ~6M is a hell of a lot worse than 3 years ~15M. Those numbers may be off a bit as the market shakes up but relatively speaking thats what we are talking about. I'm assuming that either Barretts luck evens out or some team is smart enough to realize that basically this year he isn't too far off from last year if you take luck out of the equation. I would be fine with signing Barrett for one year as he is in his prime/starting the decline stage with Soto being the backup. That puts the best cubs team out there both performance-wise and financial-wise.

[jersey cubs fan]

Something to remember about Soto is that this is his third year on the 40-man, he's going to have to stick next year in the big leagues.

 

Shouldn't be a problem. It's not like they have a conga line in front of him. Blanco will hopefully be Rusched out of the league.

Edited June 20, 2007 by jersey cubs fan

[nilodnayr]

I don't even want to try to read this thread, but I just want to provide the following to refute the absurd idea that Barrett "costs pitchers with his game calling":

 

Barrett joined the Cubs in 2004. In the 3.5 years he's been with the Cubs, they've allowed 1622 earned runs in the 3426 innings that he's caught. In the 1455 innings that someone else caught, they've allowed 699 earned runs.

 

So, with Barrett catching, Cubs pitchers have a 4.26 ERA.

With someone else catching, Cubs pitchers have a 4.32 ERA

 

I think everyone on this board with any baseball sense has agreed that the argument you stated above is moronic.

 

Did that come out wrong?

 

i'd say awkward, not wrong :lol:

 

Truffle is saying that CERA is stupid no matter what it "proves".

[Sarcastic]

So I don't have to sift through 46 pages of pure anger, can anyone give me a brief rundown of these guys?

 

Personally I wouldn't call this pure anger. If you ask me, it was one of the calmest trade threads ever on this board. Most people were resigned to the fact Barrett was going, not a lot of people are ecstatic about the deal, but there's only been a couple people who've gone ballistic.

 

Bowen's been a mediocre producing catcher in his pro career who is having a good 2007 but probably won't sustain the numbers. He'd be a nice cheap backup for a team with a good starter, but he's probably not starter material himself, at least in the long haul, but he'll be stable defensively.

 

The kid whose parents were desperate for a name that started with K has some physical ability but hasn't done jack squat as a pro (600 OPS in rookie ball and sub 600 in low A ball).

 

I would agree with all of this, with the caveat that this trade will look much worse if SS or RF aren't upgraded fairly quickly.

 

If we want to contend, we can't wait til July 31st to make a move. We're 7 back and 5 under. The time to make a run is now.

 

I don't see how any deal for a good hitting SS or RF is going to hinge ona trade for a backup catcher and a low A ball prospect.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't see how any deal for a good hitting SS or RF is going to hinge ona trade for a backup catcher and a low A ball prospect.

 

I wouldn't say it hinges. I would think there's a better chance Hendry realizes they need offensive help now that Barrett has been replaced for defensive purposes. And hopefully he realizes that SS and RF are the two biggest need spots for that improvement.

[USSoccer]

 

I would agree with all of this, with the caveat that this trade will look much worse if SS or RF aren't upgraded fairly quickly.

 

If we want to contend, we can't wait til July 31st to make a move. We're 7 back and 5 under. The time to make a run is now.

 

I don't see how any deal for a good hitting SS or RF is going to hinge ona trade for a backup catcher and a low A ball prospect.

 

We traded offense for defense. We now have 3 black holes in the lineup. C, SS and RF. We can't afford to leave those spots as is. If we do, then this trade was stupid because we could have simply held onto Barrett as his offensive numbers were likely to improve and we could have let him walk this winter if Lou didn't like him.

 

I'm overall pretty meh on the trade, but I expect needs to be addressed at some point.

[TruffleShuffle]

Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths

 

A baseball player is the sum of his parts. Barrett may not have a good glove or be an astute baserunner, but his offensive contributions made him a far superior baseball player than many of the other more defensive-minded catchers who you probably think were better.

 

Just so I know for future reference who are the defensive minded catchers that I think are better?

 

I don't know, but I compare a player to his peers. Barrett has been better than probably 2/3 of the starting catchers in baseball the past three years. The idea that he has been a bad baseball player is absurd.

[Sarcastic]

I don't see how any deal for a good hitting SS or RF is going to hinge ona trade for a backup catcher and a low A ball prospect.

 

I wouldn't say it hinges. I would think there's a better chance Hendry realizes they need offensive help now that Barrett has been replaced for defensive purposes. And hopefully he realizes that SS and RF are the two biggest need spots for that improvement.

 

He needed to know that more offense would be needed if Barrett was traded before he made the trade. If he is looking to make an upgrade at all, I'm sure he's been working hard on finding a trade for some time.