The SS Situation

[HoopsCubs]

This will come as no surprise to anyone, but I can't stand Cesar Izturis.

 

I decided to do a quick scan of the SS position around the league to see who might be even remotely interested in taking Cesar in a trade. Also, wanted to see what free agents were out there as the Cubs will have to weigh Izturis' 2008 option at the end of the year if they don't trade him or DFA him vs. the free agent pool vs. the progress of Ryan Theriot.

 

Izturis currently has a .616 OPS. There are currently 7 regular or semi-regular shortstops, who are as futile (their status after 2007):

 

.592 - Julio Lugo, BOS - under contract for 3 more years at $27M

.637 - Royce Clayton, TOR - free agent

.623 - Juan Uribe, CWS - free agent

.628 - Jason Bartlett, MIN - under team control

.599 - Adam Everett, HOU - arbitration eligible

.607 - Felipe Lopez, WAS - arbitration eligible

.588 - Omar Vizquel, SFO - free agent

 

Here are the free agents after 2007 (current OPS):

 

Royce Clayton, TOR (.637)

John McDonald, TOR (.730)

Juan Uribe, CWS (.623)

David Eckstein STL (.719)

Omar Vizquel, SFO (.588)

 

Despite these slim pickings, I still see no reason to pick up Izturis' option at $5M. The only "contending" teams, who might view Izturis as an upgrade for this season are Houston and San Francisco, and that's admittedly a long shot. The other item that might motivate the Giants is the fact that Vizquel is a free agent, and that Izturis has an option in 2008 - not sure what the Giants have at SS in AAA or AA. Houston might be motivated too for the same reason as Everett is arbitration eligible, and could make close to $4.5M in 2008, and believe it or not, he makes Cesar look like a good player.

 

Though not contenders as of today, the south siders and Toronto might also be interested in Cesar given their imminent SS openings in 2008 - again, I'm not sure what each team has in their current system at SS.

 

So, those are the 4 teams I can see having some interest in Izturis: Giants, Astros, Blue Jays, White Sox. There might be a few more teams if injuries develop, but again, a long shot.

 

As for the Cubs in 2008, assuming they can't make a trade for an established SS under contract given the team sale and financial uncertainty, it would appear there are 3 solutions:

 

(1) go with Ryan Theriot

(2) make a reasonable play for Eckstein through free agency, although he will probably be actively courted by St. Louis, Houston, Minnesota, San Francisco

(3) make a deadline trade or offseason trade of pitching prospects to get a good SS prospect, who is near major league ready and go with him.

 

 

It would seem the process for the Cubs should be fairly simple:

 

(1) Split playing time between Izturis and Theriot until July end to see if any trade value can be built up for Izturis.

(2) DFA Izturis on July 31 if he's not dealt

(3) Play Theriot everyday after July 31 unless a near major league ready prospect is acquired, in which case, split time

(4) After the season, evaluate Theriot and possibly a prospect, if one was acquired

(5) Make a decision on whether to chase Eckstein or just go with what they got

 

 

As you can see, it's going to be slim pickings in the SS market. But the Cubs must start addressing it now!

 

Hoops

 

 

p.s. I didn't mention Ronny Cedeno at all because for me, he's worse than Izturis.

[killthegoat06]

Theriot.

[sweetpeteman]

#1. Right now Theriot is the starter as far as I'm concerned, but he does need to pick it up in order to stay that way.

#2. Some stupid team is going to give Eckstein way too much money for what he is worth. Stay away.

#3. Fontenot may be an option?

#4. Gotta find someone. Cesar may be a better option than those listed.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

ARod

[YearofDaCubs]

Izturis brings nothing to the table. It's a joke he's still here. His bat is terrible and his defense is lacking.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Trade for Brandon Wood.

[Brian]

oh no, Hendry is going to sign Eckstein in the offseason... and then I'll just become a WNBA fan.

[E.J.]

oh no, Hendry is going to sign Eckstein in the offseason... and then I'll just become a WNBA fan.

 

Well, hopefully Hendry won't be running the team this offseason. That's all we can hope for anyways. And I don't see us doing much in the offseason with the sale of the team going through.

[Amazing_Grace]

This will come as no surprise to anyone, but I can't stand Cesar Izturis.

 

I decided to do a quick scan of the SS position around the league to see who might be even remotely interested in taking Cesar in a trade. Also, wanted to see what free agents were out there as the Cubs will have to weigh Izturis' 2008 option at the end of the year if they don't trade him or DFA him vs. the free agent pool vs. the progress of Ryan Theriot.

 

Izturis currently has a .616 OPS. There are currently 7 regular or semi-regular shortstops, who are as futile (their status after 2007):

 

.592 - Julio Lugo, BOS - under contract for 3 more years at $27M

.637 - Royce Clayton, TOR - free agent

.623 - Juan Uribe, CWS - free agent

.628 - Jason Bartlett, MIN - under team control

.599 - Adam Everett, HOU - arbitration eligible

.607 - Felipe Lopez, WAS - arbitration eligible

.588 - Omar Vizquel, SFO - free agent

 

Here are the free agents after 2007 (current OPS):

 

Royce Clayton, TOR (.637)

John McDonald, TOR (.730)

Juan Uribe, CWS (.623)

David Eckstein STL (.719)

Omar Vizquel, SFO (.588)

 

Despite these slim pickings, I still see no reason to pick up Izturis' option at $5M. The only "contending" teams, who might view Izturis as an upgrade for this season are Houston and San Francisco, and that's admittedly a long shot. The other item that might motivate the Giants is the fact that Vizquel is a free agent, and that Izturis has an option in 2008 - not sure what the Giants have at SS in AAA or AA. Houston might be motivated too for the same reason as Everett is arbitration eligible, and could make close to $4.5M in 2008, and believe it or not, he makes Cesar look like a good player.

 

Though not contenders as of today, the south siders and Toronto might also be interested in Cesar given their imminent SS openings in 2008 - again, I'm not sure what each team has in their current system at SS.

 

So, those are the 4 teams I can see having some interest in Izturis: Giants, Astros, Blue Jays, White Sox. There might be a few more teams if injuries develop, but again, a long shot.

 

As for the Cubs in 2008, assuming they can't make a trade for an established SS under contract given the team sale and financial uncertainty, it would appear there are 3 solutions:

 

(1) go with Ryan Theriot

(2) make a reasonable play for Eckstein through free agency, although he will probably be actively courted by St. Louis, Houston, Minnesota, San Francisco

(3) make a deadline trade or offseason trade of pitching prospects to get a good SS prospect, who is near major league ready and go with him.

 

 

It would seem the process for the Cubs should be fairly simple:

 

(1) Split playing time between Izturis and Theriot until July end to see if any trade value can be built up for Izturis.

(2) DFA Izturis on July 31 if he's not dealt

(3) Play Theriot everyday after July 31 unless a near major league ready prospect is acquired, in which case, split time

(4) After the season, evaluate Theriot and possibly a prospect, if one was acquired

(5) Make a decision on whether to chase Eckstein or just go with what they got

 

 

As you can see, it's going to be slim pickings in the SS market. But the Cubs must start addressing it now!

 

Hoops

 

 

p.s. I didn't mention Ronny Cedeno at all because for me, he's worse than Izturis.

 

Picking up Izturis option would be a disaster. Ronny Cedeno may be worse than Izturis, but is he 4.5M dollars worse? The current regime (I don't know about Piniella, he seems to want to play whoever is hot) will never accept someone like Theriot or Fontenot as an everyday SS, but maybe someone with intelligence will buy the team. Neither will be great on either side of the ball, but they'll be cheap.

[rawaction]

I think the FA group makes the FA pickings look real slim. But it may not be.

 

In light of recent events, this may bring about boos, but there's not much chance Edgar Renteria is a Brave next year. Yunel Escobar is ready, as we have seen and is a natural SS.

 

Brandon Wood is a possible trade target, but the Cubs would have to give up a lot to get him. If the Angels do keep Wood and he stays at SS, Orlando Cabrera could be available. Angels also have Erick Aybar who would be a better option than Izturis.

 

Of course, we all know Arod could be available along with the ever possible Tejada trade.

 

A lesser option is Alberto Callaspo in Arizona, who doesn't have much power or OBP.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

No to Renteria. :evil:

[Amazing_Grace]

I think the FA group makes the FA pickings look real slim. But it may not be.

 

In light of recent events, this may bring about boos, but there's not much chance Edgar Renteria is a Brave next year. Yunel Escobar is ready, as we have seen and is a natural SS.

 

Brandon Wood is a possible trade target, but the Cubs would have to give up a lot to get him. If the Angels do keep Wood and he stays at SS, Orlando Cabrera could be available. Angels also have Erick Aybar who would be a better option than Izturis.

 

Of course, we all know Arod could be available along with the ever possible Tejada trade.

 

A lesser option is Alberto Callaspo in Arizona, who doesn't have much power or OBP.

 

Renteria will be paid way more than he's worth. He's old and declining. No thanks.

 

Tejada's contract looks like a bargain now based on some recent ones. I doubt Baltimore looks to trade him unless he demands it and makes a fuss.

 

I doubt the Cubs will pursue ARod unless they can get someone to take all or most of the Jones, Dempster, and one of Howry/Eyre contracts. That would free up about 12M. If the Cubs also didn't resign Z, they would have 23M to spend. If all that happened, they could pursue ARod but probably have to go cheap at other positions, since they would still have to pick up a catcher (Barrett won't be here much longer). Add to all this the ownership transition and I don't think this has a prayer in heck unless ARod really and truly wants to come play for Piniella and is willing to take a major paycut or hold up the Yankees, demanding they either trade him and pay part of his remaining 3 years or he opts out, they get nothing, and Boston gets the chance to sign him (they'll likely be looking for a 3b and a SS).

 

Eckstein was the guy I wanted the Cubs to go after when they resigned Nomar. They could certainly do worse, but Eckstein is now 32 and signing him to anything longer than a 2 year deal would be a bad idea.

 

The best option among the three you mentioned would be to swing a trade with the Angels for Aybar. Short of that, I don't see a better option than just gambling one of Theriot/Fontenot can be adequate at SS.

[sunnydoo]

I say decline the option on Izturis and give Ronny another shot. He is getting back on track at Iowa at the moment (.312/.436).

 

Have to keep in mind that he was a 23 year old kid from Venezuela last year. Probably tremendous shock of all kinds going on with that kind of pressure he was under.

 

Next year he will be 25, so we can tell what we have one way or the other.

[jjgman21]

I say decline the option on Izturis and give Ronny another shot. He is getting back on track at Iowa at the moment (.312/.436).

 

Have to keep in mind that he was a 23 year old kid from Venezuela last year. Probably tremendous shock of all kinds going on with that kind of pressure he was under.

 

Next year he will be 25, so we can tell what we have one way or the other.

 

as discussed in the minor league forum, after tonight

 

Cedeno's AAA line: .329/.444/.500 with 3 HR, 16 BB/12 K in 82 AB.

His line in June: .440/.563/.720/1.283 with 2 HR, 6 BB/1 K in 25 AB.

 

he keeps this up another week or two, you have to call him up and give him another shot.

[soccer10k]

I say decline the option on Izturis and give Ronny another shot. He is getting back on track at Iowa at the moment (.312/.436).

 

Have to keep in mind that he was a 23 year old kid from Venezuela last year. Probably tremendous shock of all kinds going on with that kind of pressure he was under.

 

Next year he will be 25, so we can tell what we have one way or the other.

 

as discussed in the minor league forum, after tonight

 

Cedeno's AAA line: .329/.444/.500 with 3 HR, 16 BB/12 K in 82 AB.

His line in June: .440/.563/.720/1.283 with 2 HR, 6 BB/1 K in 25 AB.

 

he keeps this up another week or two, you have to call him up and give him another shot.

 

Maybe he'll hit over .100 this time up.

[Balsa]

Cedeno now and next year. Can he really be worse than Crapturis?

[ConstableRabbit]

My roommate's cousin is a 20% owner of the Orioles. We went to dinner with him and his family last week.

 

(I didn't want to bring this up out of nowhere because I hate it when people say "I know a guy who knows a guy etc etc")

 

He said that as of now, Tejada is available for an MLB-ready star pitching prospect and/or rookie AND a mid-level potential position player prospect.

 

We mentioned Veal and he said it would have to be Veal and a position player, (he wasn't familiar with EPatt, who we brought up).

 

It was very interesting. Cool guy.

 

Of note, he told us that he vetoed a Prior for Bedard/Tejada deal because he was worried about potential injury problems, haha.

 

Anyway, it really made my mouth water for Miggy...

[Guest]

Free Ronny!

[sweetpeteman]

My roommate's cousin is a 20% owner of the Orioles. We went to dinner with him and his family last week.

 

(I didn't want to bring this up out of nowhere because I hate it when people say "I know a guy who knows a guy etc etc")

 

He said that as of now, Tejada is available for an MLB-ready star pitching prospect and/or rookie AND a mid-level potential position player prospect.

 

We mentioned Veal and he said it would have to be Veal and a position player, (he wasn't familiar with EPatt, who we brought up).

 

It was very interesting. Cool guy.

 

Of note, he told us that he vetoed a Prior for Bedard/Tejada deal because he was worried about potential injury problems, haha.

 

Anyway, it really made my mouth water for Miggy...

 

Veal and EP would be too much in my opinion. Miggy has expierenced a severe decline in power and while he still puts up a good OBP, he is 31 and is going to decline in the field as well. He is due $13mil this year, in '08, and '09.

 

Veal and another lower prospect would be more likely with us picking up Miggy's contract.

[soccer10k]

My roommate's cousin is a 20% owner of the Orioles. We went to dinner with him and his family last week.

 

(I didn't want to bring this up out of nowhere because I hate it when people say "I know a guy who knows a guy etc etc")

 

He said that as of now, Tejada is available for an MLB-ready star pitching prospect and/or rookie AND a mid-level potential position player prospect.

 

We mentioned Veal and he said it would have to be Veal and a position player, (he wasn't familiar with EPatt, who we brought up).

 

It was very interesting. Cool guy.

 

Of note, he told us that he vetoed a Prior for Bedard/Tejada deal because he was worried about potential injury problems, haha.

 

Anyway, it really made my mouth water for Miggy...

 

Veal and EP would be too much in my opinion. Miggy has expierenced a severe decline in power and while he still puts up a good OBP, he is 31 and is going to decline in the field as well. He is due $13mil this year, in '08, and '09.

 

Veal and another lower prospect would be more likely with us picking up Miggy's contract.

 

They can have Ronny.

[CubsWin]

I'm all for trading up to get any one of the guys mentioned (Wood, Tejada, etc.) as they would most likely provide the biggest improvement right away than any other options. That all depends on the cost in players, of course, but that would have to be option one.

 

I am definitely guilty of giving too many second chances to position prospects that have previously flashed some success, but Cedeno's definitely found it again. Remember how he looked in the 2nd half of '05? .300/.356/.375 in 80 ABs with even better numbers at AAA. At 24, he could just be putting it all together.

 

That said, if given a choice to trade him along with a high level pitching prospect for a more proven commodity, even a declining one like Tejada or Renteria, I'd have to say yes to that. It would provide a 2-3 year window for the Cubs offensively that we have never experienced. With guys like Soriano, Lee, Ramirez anchoring, when you add Tejada or Renteria to that line-up and fill in the blanks with Pie, DeRosa/Theriot, etc. things would never have looked better offensively. Factor in possible contributions from guys like EPatt and Soto and that opportunity would be tough to pass up.

 

Now the question remains, will the Cubs ever be presented with that opportunity and will the player cost be worth it. Getting Tejada or someone of that caliber seems like a long shot to me. Still fun to think about.

[Banedon]

A lesser option is Alberto Callaspo in Arizona, who doesn't have much power or OBP.

 

His off the field troubles don't exactly cause one to get too excited for that idea either.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Veal + Paweleck + Izturis + Moore for Tejada.

[Banedon]

Veal + Paweleck + Izturis + Moore for Tejada.

 

That's a lot of prospects for a guy not named Pierre....

 

 

:P

[jersey cubs fan]

The fact that you repeatedly said the name Eckstein really disgusts me.

 

 

He's approaching his mid 30's now, and was never that good to begin with.

 

Let Theriot play the role of Eckstein circa 2005 at a fraction of the cost, or go in a completely different direction. But don't pay millions for that type of production.