NSD tomorrow - how's your team doing?

[stuy119]

ND was jilted, and Lemming could do nothing about it by trying to steer another recruit there to make up for the loss. And notice that Lemming makes no bones about the three recruits that Weis kept recruiting from other schools, in spite of the fact that Weis decided to call the Littles out on national TV.

 

Scum-sucking ND homers.

I'm beginning to wonder if any of you ND-haters on this board read.

 

The Louisville player we got decommitted after the coaching change.

 

The Iowa player we got wanted to come to ND all along, just never had an offer - Kirk Ferentz pretty much admitted as much. Once he was offered (because ND lost out on other players it wanted more at the time, and because Corwin Brown's new scheme as DC made Brian Smith a much better fit), he committed pretty much immediately.

 

I don't know the circumstances of the SC player we got, but considering Steve Spurrier's been pissing on Notre Dame ever since we kicked his ass in the 1992 Sugar Bowl, right down to lowballing us in every coaches' poll every year for no apparent reason, I'm not exactly crying for him.

 

I've explained the first two of those situations already, but I guess the "different situations" tag you just gave to Chris Little don't apply if it gives you guys a chance to trash Charlie or ND. (Also of note: Weis said the two decommits on NSD were completely different situations. My guess is, he's not that mad at Chris, since there were other factors in his decision. But Greg L. decommitted from us not until NSD - while leading everyone at ND to believe he was still coming as late as the night before - and with no explanation.)

 

Actually, I did read it - and the Louisville coaching change was the only one that I'll give you credit for, since that's applicable to changing schools.

 

I did also notice that you didn't try to defend Lemming. At least you can admit that he, too, is a ND homer and actively recruits kids to ND - while supposedly being unbiased.

 

Wait a minute-you give Little a pass because a spot at Georgia opened up at the last minute that he could fill, but you don't give the Iowa player a pass for coming to ND because a spot opened up at the last minute? What's the difference?

 

I never gave Little a pass. I said that it was Bush League for Weis to call him out on it when he esentially did the same thing.

 

Ok-that makes more sense, I was just a little confused. Sorry about that.

 

Looking back, that's my fault. I can see where you thought I was defending him. My intention was to torch Lemming as much as possible at that point, since the "story" Lemming put forward looks crafted to save as much face for ND as possible.

 

As much as I didn't like it, FSU essentially told him to look elsewhere. I hate when that's done to kids, but it's best that he be given the chance to look around and find somewhere he'll be a good fit. Somewhat the same situation as the kid who was originally committed to Louisville, but a little different coaching influence.

[imb]

Also, why the severe lack of Urban Meyer hate? This guy was engaging in underhanded sleazy recruit-stealing on a level much higher than anyone else this year, and he stole recruits from many of this board's favorite teams.

 

As was said right above, the attacks on Weis are in regards to his hypocricy. He denounces recruits for backing out on verbal commitments when he is out trying to get recruits to do just that.

 

I know it goes on. We all do. Almost every school continues to recruit the players they want even after verbal commitments. Everyone realizes that nothing is final until a name is signed on the LOI. What makes Weis a whiner and a hypocrite is he tries to act all wronged by these boys while at the same time, he's trying to get others just like them to back out of commitments.

 

He should do what he does, fine...but quit bitching like a teenage girl when the same crap bites him on that rather large posterior.

Ok, this'll be the last time I try to make this clear. He's not whining about guys breaking their commitments alone, he was whining - very justifiably - about the manner in which the Littles (particularly Greg) did it. The crap GL pulled on us was right on the level of Irsay moving the Colts to Indianapolis overnight - a total snow job.

 

This happens at every school. Weis now has a reputation as a loud-mouthed, complaining, blowhard. Now, combine that with the fact that he coaches at a school that everyone hates because they never accomplish anything and no one will feel sorry for you.

[DCNashville]

 

This happens at every school. Weis now has a reputation as a loud-mouthed, complaining, blowhard. Now, combine that with the fact that he coaches at a school that everyone hates because they never accomplish anything and no one will feel sorry for you.

 

Oklahoma's recent football history (last 5-7 years) is much better than Notre Dame's. However, let's not forget that Oklahoma sucked throughout much of the 1990's and has only regained prominence over the last several years. Notre Dame has accomplished more in its history than Oklahoma, and its been consistently better over the last 15-30 years.

[hawkeyecub]

ND was jilted, and Lemming could do nothing about it by trying to steer another recruit there to make up for the loss. And notice that Lemming makes no bones about the three recruits that Weis kept recruiting from other schools, in spite of the fact that Weis decided to call the Littles out on national TV.

 

Scum-sucking ND homers.

 

The Iowa player we got wanted to come to ND all along, just never had an offer - Kirk Ferentz pretty much admitted as much. Once he was offered (because ND lost out on other players it wanted more at the time, and because Corwin Brown's new scheme as DC made Brian Smith a much better fit), he committed pretty much immediately.

 

When did Ferentz admit as much? Please, show me.

 

As far as him wanting to go there all along, he didn't lead the coaches to believe that. "I can't see anywhere else being a better place to go than Iowa" "Iowa is number one on my list and they're the only one on my list" "It's Iowa from here on out and that's it, Iowa is the right place for me".

 

The Iowa staff had no problems when he was thinking about visiting Kansas State after his commitment because he was honest and upfront about it. Once Notre Dame offered it was suddenly his dad (ND alum) handling everything and it came after he promised them he was set on Iowa with no doubts. Thus when he scheduled the visit to ND they pulled his offer (although he was likely going to ND anyways).

 

ndistops- Comparing Irsay moving a professional franchise out of town in the middle of the night to a high school kid switching commitments is a very poor and strange analogy. Seriously.

[dew1679666265]

Weis is the lowest form of scum. He calls out a recruit by name for decommitting on national TV. Then he turns around and tries to get every recruit in sight to decommit.

 

"And I think one of the things we're going to make sure we do differently than we've done in the past is that when a guy wants to say yes to us, there's a clear understanding from everyone that they're not going to go visit anywhere else. They're not going to talk to anyone else. They're either committed to us, or you're not."

 

If Weis actually believes in what hes saying, hes a huge hypocrite as well as someone who won't be getting very many good recruits anymore. Have fun being blown out by USC for the next 10 year Charlie.

Read my prior posts. If you haven't, read them again. No one's saying decommitting is a terrible thing by itself. Weis is annoyed because these two kids never sacked up and told him they were considering anyone else, let alone that they would be going elsewhere. Greg Little was telling people he was coming to ND as recently as the night before NSD. And with Arrelious Benn, he's annoyed that he's trying to drag ND through the mud for recruiting him post-Illinois commitment. As if ND were the only ones.

 

As for USC, if they're blowing out ND for the next 10 years, that means they're blowing out everyone, because our classes the last two years are by far the most impressive of their regular opponents.

 

This is where I like Jimmy Clausen. Say what you want about the limo thing, but he never wavered once he'd decided to come to ND. Jimmy's father went as far to tell Weis he needn't continue recruiting Jimmy because they were on board, no questions asked. I have a feeling that kid is much more classy than anyone is willing to admit.

 

A NY Times article today tries to float the possibility that ND is behind the accusations toward Illinois re: recruiting practices. In the same article, there are two different Big 10 coaches that basically flat-out accuse Illinois. Typical mainstream media work there.

 

All this said, if you truly believe Weis is "the lowest form of scum", there's no convincing you otherwise, I'm sure, ditto anyone else who feels that way.

 

So long as he's more like Rick than Casey. Both of his older brothers played football at UT and both gained quite the reputation.

Casey was widely known as a complete jerk. Few people liked him that knew him personally and fewer fans liked the crap he said in the media.

Rick on the other hand is a complete class act. I never heard anything bad about him and he even took his whole offensive line out for dinner after a game where he wasn't sacked.

If Jimmy takes after Rick, then he'll be a great kid.

[adamb0719]

The Iowa staff had no problems when he was thinking about visiting Kansas State after his commitment because he was honest and upfront about it. Once Notre Dame offered it was suddenly his dad (ND alum) handling everything and it came after he promised them he was set on Iowa with no doubts. Thus when he scheduled the visit to ND they pulled his offer (although he was likely going to ND anyways).

 

 

If they had no problem with him visiting KSU, then why did they tell him they would move in a different direction if he visited ND, even though he was 'honest and upfront'?

 

Also Smith's father said that they initiated the contact with ND in the summer, and Smith himself said he was just waiting for an offer from ND, but none came until the new DC took over.

[dew1679666265]

Also, why the severe lack of Urban Meyer hate? This guy was engaging in underhanded sleazy recruit-stealing on a level much higher than anyone else this year, and he stole recruits from many of this board's favorite teams.

 

I'll be happy to jump into the Urban Meyer hate. :wink: The longer he coaches at Florida, the more he reminds me of Spurrier. When he first showed up at Florida, he seemed like an ok guy, but I've backed off completely on that.

[jaydee]

Here's some of cheeseburger charlie's recruiting tactics from a south bend paper:

 

In the case of Benn, Weis on Wednesday addressed the wide receiver's revealing to the Washington Post, his hometown newspaper, on Wednesday a text message and voice mail sent to him by former Notre Dame quarterbacks coach Peter Vaas, who had been involved with Benn's recruitment.

 

" 'FYI, ILL is telling Robert Hughes that they will build their offense around him? Didn't they tell you that?

Coach Vaas," Vaas wrote Benn on Dec. 17,' " the Post reported.

 

The paper also reported that Vaas left a voice mail to Benn that said, "You don't want to do anything except bury your head in the sand. ... I guess you're not tough enough to compete at the big level."

 

Last summer, Clemson tight end Jamie Cumbie had publicly accused ND assistant Rob Ianello of engaging in "negative recruiting" tactics, and Weis issued a statement essentially saying Cumbie was being less than truthful.

 

He was similarly displeased with Benn's actions.

 

"I think that he kind of put coach Vaas out to dry on that one," Weis said. "I'm going to side with coach Vaas on that one. Now are you asking me if coach Vaas sent him texts? Sure, he sent him texts. But you can probably go ask the kid if he committed to us beforehand, too, and see what he says to that one.

[Andy]

Here's some of cheeseburger charlie's recruiting tactics from a south bend paper:

 

In the case of Benn, Weis on Wednesday addressed the wide receiver's revealing to the Washington Post, his hometown newspaper, on Wednesday a text message and voice mail sent to him by former Notre Dame quarterbacks coach Peter Vaas, who had been involved with Benn's recruitment.

 

" 'FYI, ILL is telling Robert Hughes that they will build their offense around him? Didn't they tell you that?

Coach Vaas," Vaas wrote Benn on Dec. 17,' " the Post reported.

 

The paper also reported that Vaas left a voice mail to Benn that said, "You don't want to do anything except bury your head in the sand. ... I guess you're not tough enough to compete at the big level."

 

Last summer, Clemson tight end Jamie Cumbie had publicly accused ND assistant Rob Ianello of engaging in "negative recruiting" tactics, and Weis issued a statement essentially saying Cumbie was being less than truthful.

 

He was similarly displeased with Benn's actions.

 

"I think that he kind of put coach Vaas out to dry on that one," Weis said. "I'm going to side with coach Vaas on that one. Now are you asking me if coach Vaas sent him texts? Sure, he sent him texts. But you can probably go ask the kid if he committed to us beforehand, too, and see what he says to that one.

Weis wasn't the only one that said Cumbie wasn't being truthful. I forgot about that scumbag move by Cumbie.

 

And if you can explain to me why recruiting a guy who previously verballed to you is wrong, I'd appreciate hearing it.

 

And the "Cheeseburger Charlie" thing - uncreative and completely uncalled for. The man nearly died trying to fix that problem through surgery. But please, go on with the disrespectful fat jokes. Ridiculous.

 

This happens at every school. Weis now has a reputation as a loud-mouthed, complaining, blowhard. Now, combine that with the fact that he coaches at a school that everyone hates because they never accomplish anything and no one will feel sorry for you.

No, guys that announced verbal commitments to you and then change their mind with no explanation on signing day don't happen at every school. When was the last time you heard of that happening? Enlighten me.

 

And no one hates ND because they don't accomplish anything. You (and by you I mean ND-haters, not you specifically) hate ND because the media, knowing that, for better or worse, ND will sell newspapers/magazines/Web columns/trash bags/whatever, constantly talks about ND. You hate ND because, through no inherent fault of their own, the stupid-ass people at ESPN, etc. rank them consistently higher than they should be ranked. You hate ND because they won't join a conference, even though if someone offered your team the same deal ND has, with, say, ABC dollars and little problem getting a full schedule together each year, you would blow a load talking about how quickly they should accept it, the 'integrity of being in a conference' be damned. Granted, there are those that may have different reasons (having dealt with a jerk ND fan, of which there are far too many, or perhaps a bad experience with the university itself), but more or less, that seems to be the general case.

 

When did this "not accomplishing anything" thing start, anyway? As recently as 2004, ND had beaten two top 10 teams, one on the road, in one season. There wasn't an NSBB in 2002, so I was unable to gain an outside perspective, but I wonder if there was this much anger in our direction when we were having that magical (and super-lucky) 8-0 run in 2002.

[imb]

 

This happens at every school. Weis now has a reputation as a loud-mouthed, complaining, blowhard. Now, combine that with the fact that he coaches at a school that everyone hates because they never accomplish anything and no one will feel sorry for you.

 

Oklahoma's recent football history (last 5-7 years) is much better than Notre Dame's. However, let's not forget that Oklahoma sucked throughout much of the 1990's and has only regained prominence over the last several years. Notre Dame has accomplished more in its history than Oklahoma, and its been consistently better over the last 15-30 years.

 

You'll get no arguments from me there.

 

Of course, what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. But good job anyway.

[imb]

This happens at every school. Weis now has a reputation as a loud-mouthed, complaining, blowhard. Now, combine that with the fact that he coaches at a school that everyone hates because they never accomplish anything and no one will feel sorry for you.

No, guys that announced verbal commitments to you and then change their mind with no explanation on signing day don't happen at every school. When was the last time you heard of that happening? Enlighten me.

 

Robert Meachem (I know you know him) was an OU verbal before pulling out on signing day and signing with Tennessee. Nic Harris was a Michigan verbal before signing with OU on signing day.

 

These are just two, one that happened against OU and one that happened for us. And it took me two seconds to think of it. It happens all the time.

[Andy]

This happens at every school. Weis now has a reputation as a loud-mouthed, complaining, blowhard. Now, combine that with the fact that he coaches at a school that everyone hates because they never accomplish anything and no one will feel sorry for you.

No, guys that announced verbal commitments to you and then change their mind with no explanation on signing day don't happen at every school. When was the last time you heard of that happening? Enlighten me.

 

Robert Meachem (I know you know him) was an OU verbal before pulling out on signing day and signing with Tennessee. Nic Harris was a Michigan verbal before signing with OU on signing day.

 

These are just two, one that happened against OU and one that happened for us. And it took me two seconds to think of it. It happens all the time.

Well, fair enough. Anyway, it's never happened to Weis before, and as we've found out, he'll talk about anything.

 

Regardless of the Littles and Trattou, everyone but Scout still ranked ND as a top-10 class this year (Scout had it 11th), so my grapes needn't be too sour. In a couple of years the gulf between us and USC will still be wide, but it won't be insurmountable.

[soccer10k]

 

This happens at every school. Weis now has a reputation as a loud-mouthed, complaining, blowhard. Now, combine that with the fact that he coaches at a school that everyone hates because they never accomplish anything and no one will feel sorry for you.

 

Oklahoma's recent football history (last 5-7 years) is much better than Notre Dame's. However, let's not forget that Oklahoma sucked throughout much of the 1990's and has only regained prominence over the last several years. Notre Dame has accomplished more in its history than Oklahoma, and its been consistently better over the last 15-30 years.

 

You'll get no arguments from me there.

 

Of course, what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. But good job anyway.

 

Well, you wrote that Notre Dame "never accomplish(es) anything" and that's what he was addressing.

[Guest]

Players decomminting is something fans and mostly coaches need to come to grips with. It's becoming more common. Charlie can talk all tough about recruits commiting to his team, but it could end up backfiring.

 

John L Smith called out Zook in his recruiting saying something like 'where theres smoke there is fire'. Whatta jerk. John L is such a big mouth blowhard POS. Maybe Zook is just good at recruiting.

 

If anybody remembers a Majority of the Florida Gators that made up the core of the team, was RECRUITED by Ron Zook. And like Jon Gruden, Urban Meyer rode the coattails of another coaches', hard work and dedication.

 

Ron Zook should be given a Nat'l Champ ring, and shout out, for recruiting players like Leak, etc.

[Guest]

Also, why the severe lack of Urban Meyer hate? This guy was engaging in underhanded sleazy recruit-stealing on a level much higher than anyone else this year, and he stole recruits from many of this board's favorite teams.

 

I think Weis is getting hit harder because he complained publicly, and he probably should be getting hit harder right now. Of course, the level of hatred being spewed right now is...puzzling, but Weis should be getting criticized the most right now.

 

Weis is getting hit hardest because people love to hate Notre Dame. Its all part of being ONE OF the greatest program in college football history.

 

 

I had to correct your statement, cause ND is ONE of the greatest programs in football history, not the greatest. Not to mention, Nebraska/Alabama/Oklahoma/USC/Miami-Fl all had LEGIT cause of the "GOAT" of collge football programs.

 

So don't state opinions as facts.

[Guest]

Considering the talent level over the past few yrs, ND has become arguably the MOST overrated program in D1 Football, period.

 

Like my beloved, Crimson Tide, ND seems to live in a deluded fantasy world that everything should be given to them. That everytime the lose something, or player, it's "cheating" or "liar", or whatnot, but when ND does the same tatic is call "what's fair in love and war." Look every team lost players they wanted to keep (Crimson Tide lost John Brown--Florida---Robert Marve----Miami---Kourtnei Brown---Clemson---all 4 star prospects), so Charli Weis and his arrogant Patriots esque smugness can get off his high horse, and stop complaining about the players he lost and focus on the players he got.

 

In fact, Weis and ND are so perfect for each other, in fact the less time we spend talking on this most of overrated teams, the better.

[DCNashville]

 

This happens at every school. Weis now has a reputation as a loud-mouthed, complaining, blowhard. Now, combine that with the fact that he coaches at a school that everyone hates because they never accomplish anything and no one will feel sorry for you.

 

Oklahoma's recent football history (last 5-7 years) is much better than Notre Dame's. However, let's not forget that Oklahoma sucked throughout much of the 1990's and has only regained prominence over the last several years. Notre Dame has accomplished more in its history than Oklahoma, and its been consistently better over the last 15-30 years.

 

You'll get no arguments from me there.

 

Of course, what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. But good job anyway.

 

I was responding to that specifically.

 

Charlie isn't doing anything that any other coach doesn't do...in fact, do we need to go down the laundry list of shady discipline moves by Stoops at OU? It's unbelievable.

[DCNashville]

 

I had to correct your statement, cause ND is ONE of the greatest programs in football history, not the greatest. Not to mention, Nebraska/Alabama/Oklahoma/USC/Miami-Fl all had LEGIT cause of the "GOAT" of collge football programs.

 

So don't state opinions as facts.

 

Well, considering that we have the most national championships, the second best winning percentage, the most Heisman winners, etc, I'd say it's as close to fact as you can get with a word like "greatest."

[Mark Priors Calves]

the college recruitment process, scouting sites and this thread are distrurbing. everyone gets all worked up over this garbage and so many of these players will suck anyway it won't matter in 2 years.

[cubweiser03]

the college recruitment process, scouting sites and this thread are distrurbing. everyone gets all worked up over this garbage and so many of these players will suck anyway it won't matter in 2 years.

 

It does matter. It may not be a perfect science but more often than not there is a correlation that leads to success on the football field. Trust me, UM doesnt have the success they have because of the coaching, its because of the recruiting and talent they put on the field. If they didnt recruit so well consistantly they would be an average program.

 

As for Charlie, he IS doing things differently. He's making it public about his disatisfaction with the process and pointing the finger directly at the kids. Every coach in America knows about the circus of recruiting but he can't shut up about it.

[imb]

 

This happens at every school. Weis now has a reputation as a loud-mouthed, complaining, blowhard. Now, combine that with the fact that he coaches at a school that everyone hates because they never accomplish anything and no one will feel sorry for you.

 

Oklahoma's recent football history (last 5-7 years) is much better than Notre Dame's. However, let's not forget that Oklahoma sucked throughout much of the 1990's and has only regained prominence over the last several years. Notre Dame has accomplished more in its history than Oklahoma, and its been consistently better over the last 15-30 years.

 

You'll get no arguments from me there.

 

Of course, what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. But good job anyway.

 

I was responding to that specifically.

 

Charlie isn't doing anything that any other coach doesn't do...in fact, do we need to go down the laundry list of shady discipline moves by Stoops at OU? It's unbelievable.

 

Yeah sure, that should be fun. You mean like kicking Bomar and Quinn off the team, as opposed to a one-game suspension or whatever it was that Troy Smith got the year before for taking money from a booster?

[illiniguy]

Players decomminting is something fans and mostly coaches need to come to grips with. It's becoming more common. Charlie can talk all tough about recruits commiting to his team, but it could end up backfiring.

 

John L Smith called out Zook in his recruiting saying something like 'where theres smoke there is fire'. Whatta jerk. John L is such a big mouth blowhard POS. Maybe Zook is just good at recruiting.

 

If anybody remembers a Majority of the Florida Gators that made up the core of the team, was RECRUITED by Ron Zook. And like Jon Gruden, Urban Meyer rode the coattails of another coaches', hard work and dedication.

 

Ron Zook should be given a Nat'l Champ ring, and shout out, for recruiting players like Leak, etc.

Why isn't this brought up more? It was brought up all the time with Bruce Weber coaching Illinois to a final four. But, yet the team that beat him was Roy Williams doing the samething with Matt Daugherty's kids. Why do some coaches and programs get a fly on this?

[badgercub]

I think all this hype over who has the #1 recruiting class and stars is a bunch of nonsense. Sure it does correlate to getting good athletes and if you continue to do it over time you will build a good program but it doesn't guarantee anything. Look at a team like the Wisconsin Badgers, year in and year out they are ranked in the middle of the Big Ten conference in recruiting but consistently churn out NFL players, and have arguably put themselves into the conversation as being a top team year in and year out with scUM and tOSU.

[Mark Priors Calves]

the college recruitment process, scouting sites and this thread are distrurbing. everyone gets all worked up over this garbage and so many of these players will suck anyway it won't matter in 2 years.

 

It does matter. It may not be a perfect science but more often than not there is a correlation that leads to success on the football field. Trust me, UM doesnt have the success they have because of the coaching, its because of the recruiting and talent they put on the field. If they didnt recruit so well consistantly they would be an average program.

 

As for Charlie, he IS doing things differently. He's making it public about his disatisfaction with the process and pointing the finger directly at the kids. Every coach in America knows about the circus of recruiting but he can't shut up about it.

 

i'm not saying recruitment doesn't matter. its essential to be a great program but the oogling and vitrol spewed over 17/18 year old kids is ridiculous. these 100 lists, 4 or 5 star rankings and these recruiting experts are worthless right now. if a class is good it won't show until 2 years down the road, its pointless to get all worked up over national signing day and how your team got screwed by some other school when its far from proven that a thought of good class as incoming freshmen will translate into a successful national title run in the near future.

[cubweiser03]

I think all this hype over who has the #1 recruiting class and stars is a bunch of nonsense. Sure it does correlate to getting good athletes and if you continue to do it over time you will build a good program but it doesn't guarantee anything. Look at a team like the Wisconsin Badgers, year in and year out they are ranked in the middle of the Big Ten conference in recruiting but consistently churn out NFL players, and have arguably put themselves into the conversation as being a top team year in and year out with scUM and tOSU.

 

Wisconsin is a severly underappreciated program no doubt. I dont think it matters so much getting the #1 or #2 rankings. There is much debate on how to rate a class anyway; stars, average stars, whatever you choose there are flaws. Are all stars equal? Id rather have uber QB prospect than a uber LB prospect anyday. Well according to rankings they are treated as the same but when the game is played they have different degrees of how they effect the game, and thats what its all about.

 

Wisconsin is very good, but i think it can also be said what holds them back is getting these uber prospects.