Cubs Sign Marquis to 3/21

[UMFan83]

as most of us are refugees from either espn or cubs.com, I think we can all agree the general intelligence and posting atmosphere in this forum is far better. why don't many of you realize that the constant barrage of hyperbole trashing players, the team and the GM when transactions that aren't lopsided in favor of the Cubs take place puts us right back from whence we came?

 

there's plenty of room for criticism without resorting to these tactics. while concesus is virtually impossible, the utter nonsense that gets posted when a transaction is anything but just insanely perfect is mind numbing and flies in the face of the reasons many of us found our way here.

 

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

A lot of the posters here have a certain mindset on how they want a team built because they think its the best way to build a successful winning team. Needless to say, our GM has pretty much gameplanned completely opposite from this mindset, and as such as pretty critical.

 

I think that the key here is that many posters have a strong opinion on what is best. Therefore when someone else doesn't do it the same way, emotion takes over.

 

We saw it last offseason with Jones. At the beginning there was outrage but slowly the better and more moderate commetns take over.

 

Best thing is to not judge based on initial impressions

 

Yeah, but what is "best" in most people's minds is to pick up each and every top free agent for less than market value. It's not reasonable to start with.

 

Not necessarily...a lot of people would be thrilled to trade for Ryan Church, a mostly unproven player with good plate discipline. Also, Soriano was regarded as the top FA for everyone, and the Cubs picked him up, and a lot of posters would have went other routes.

[Soriano12]

Disgruntled Cubs Fan for one.

 

Find a post where I called Hendry "Fat" in a direct critismism to his offseason moves.

 

In fact I liked this offseason, up until Marquis.

[Shilzzz]

Not many trades have gone down this offseason. Why is that? It's not b/c Hendry is stupid or Hendry is fat or Hendry eats too many donuts, blah blah blah.

 

Seriously, who uses those sort of arguments to criticize Hendry's offseason?

 

Disgruntled Cubs Fan for one. There are plenty of other village idiots that chime in with that nonsense whenever they see a move they don't like.

 

It's getting old.

 

and what do you call this post, exactly? :roll:

[Mark Priors Calves]

if the 28 million is the true number. the deal went from bad to terrible. there is no way is value is at near $10 million per season, even if the market is inflated, he's way overpriced.

 

Hendry is spending money like a GM who knows he's a short leash. If 2007 bombs, he'll be gone and he won't have to deal with some of these bad contracts he's signing players to.

[Andy]

I'm a tad less happy with 3/28 than 3/20.

[Soriano12]

This is officially the worst offseason move of 2007. Trumping the Matthews

Jr. contract.

 

Fan - Freakin - Tastic.

[CoolHandLuke]

as most of us are refugees from either espn or cubs.com, I think we can all agree the general intelligence and posting atmosphere in this forum is far better. why don't many of you realize that the constant barrage of hyperbole trashing players, the team and the GM when transactions that aren't lopsided in favor of the Cubs take place puts us right back from whence we came?

 

there's plenty of room for criticism without resorting to these tactics. while concesus is virtually impossible, the utter nonsense that gets posted when a transaction is anything but just insanely perfect is mind numbing and flies in the face of the reasons many of us found our way here.

 

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

A lot of the posters here have a certain mindset on how they want a team built because they think its the best way to build a successful winning team. Needless to say, our GM has pretty much gameplanned completely opposite from this mindset, and as such as pretty critical.

 

I think that the key here is that many posters have a strong opinion on what is best. Therefore when someone else doesn't do it the same way, emotion takes over.

 

We saw it last offseason with Jones. At the beginning there was outrage but slowly the better and more moderate commetns take over.

 

Best thing is to not judge based on initial impressions

 

Yeah, but what is "best" in most people's minds is to pick up each and every top free agent for less than market value. It's not reasonable to start with.

 

Not necessarily...a lot of people would be thrilled to trade for Ryan Church, a mostly unproven player with good plate discipline. Also, Soriano was regarded as the top FA for everyone, and the Cubs picked him up, and a lot of posters would have went other routes.

 

I think what is best in most people minds is when the market forces you to overpay, then you should overpay for impact players, not average middle of the road players.

[jjgman21]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

 

exactly what I am talking about. "good chance?" what does that mean? "can outperform." there's simply no basis for it.

 

 

there is no point to this post. it is simply hyperbole, in no way based in facts or analysis, whatsoever. your conviction on the matter doesn't change the fact that your post lacks fairness, logic and reason.

[YearofDaCubs]

Chicagosports has edited the story to show the original reported 3/28MM deal. :x

Wow, unreal. Hendry has lost it. I can understand upgrading the team to make a run for it but at least throw the money around to better players. Sign Zito and Lilly since Schmidt was unavailable. If they want to try and win it then they should go all out.

[Shilzzz]

how does st louis get kip wells at one year/three mil, and the cubs get marquis for this? astounding.

[Soriano12]

[ your conviction on the matter doesn't change the fact that your post lacks fairness, logic and reason.

 

Thanks for the input. I'll have trouble sleeping tonight knowing jigman didn't like my post.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

jjgman, many here live to bitch. It drives good postrrs away.

 

Give me a break. The Cubs are coming off a 66 win season. They weren't exactly inspiring confidence to begin with. Now they've spent a lot of money, and there's a lot of debate on how worthwhile the acquisitions are. Some people may love the Soriano signing, dislike the DeRosa signing, like the Lilly signing, and hate the Marquis signing. Other people may be the inverse, or one of the many combinations in between. Therefore, you have different people saying what they think has been good or bad. Just because there is disagreement or negativity does NOT mean that there is a large group of posters(or even any at all) that are negative or pessimistic all the time. It's an incredibly weak argument, especially when you include the fact that the Cubs were an awful, awful team last season.

 

If you think an argument is overly negative, then state your case, show them why you think they're wrong. But to sit back and chalk up negativity as some sort of character flaw while not contributing anything else is ridiculous, uncalled for, and basically attacking the poster IMO.

Edited December 9, 2006 by Transmogrified Tiger

[RichHillIsABeast]

Disgruntled Cubs Fan for one.

 

Find a post where I called Hendry "Fat" in a direct critismism to his offseason moves.

 

In fact I liked this offseason, up until Marquis.

 

I'm not wasting time looking for your posts. Sure you liked the offseason, after ARam and Soriano came to town. Before that you were bashing Hendry left and right calling him all sorts of ridiculous names.

 

In the future I'll just ignore your posts. We'll both be happier.

[CubsWin]

Disgruntled Cubs Fan for one.

 

Find a post where I called Hendry "Fat" in a direct critismism to his offseason moves.

 

In fact I liked this offseason, up until Marquis.

Maybe not fat, but I can scroll up I find you calling him a tool as your criticism. Stupid is probably in there, too.

 

But I'm fine with it. Don't ever change. Just don't think that your criticisms they way they are currently stated hold much, if any, water.

[Jon]

Some of the things Hendry had to do this offseason to make the team better:

 

-Improve the rotation

-Improve the team's OBP

 

And some smaller things like

 

-Move Izturis

-Find a platoon partner for Jones (if Jones remains a Cub)

 

Hendry hasn't done any of those things. He added arms to the rotation, but hasn't really added quality arms.

 

And what quality arms did you want? Schmidt didn't take a competitive offer from the Cards, the WS champions. What makes you think he would have come to the Cubs? We weren't even a finalist for his services. He wanted to stay on the west coast.

 

Hendry decided to pay for arms instead of trading for them. We're going to need our farm system to start producing. It can't produce if you keep trading away the cream of the crop. I'm not down with trading the likes of Pie for a #2 starter (at best) in Jennings.

 

What FA did Hendry not get that you would have been willing to pay for? Drew? If Wood and Prior taught us anything, it's not to count on injury prone players.

 

Not many trades have gone down this offseason. Why is that? It's not b/c Hendry is stupid or Hendry is fat or Hendry eats too many donuts, blah blah blah.

So are we in agreement that he didn't really improve the rotation? The two arms he added, Lilly and Marquis, most likely aren't going to keep up the collective ERA when compared to the pitchers that were already on the team last year (some of whom are you and will improve). If you're going to spend $60 million on a pair of pitchers, they should really help you out.

 

The OBP will see it's biggest increase with the return of a healthy Lee. Soriano, DeRossa, and Izturis won't be responsible for a significant improve to the team's OBP. At least not to the extent that they needed.

 

Relying on mediocrity is no better than relying on good to great players with a history of injuries.

 

Has Hendry had the resources to make better moves? Absolutely. You can speculate on who was or was not available and which teams were or were not willing to trade until you're blue in the face. But the bottom line is that at this point, Hendry really hasn't made the team that much better, in my opinion.

[Soriano12]

Maybe not fat, but I can scroll up I find you calling him a tool as your criticism. Stupid is probably in there, too.

.

 

He just gave nearly 10 million to Jason Marquis. The fraternity of GM's at the winter meetings are probably sipping drinks at the hotel bar calling him the same thing.

[Andy]

This is officially the worst offseason move of 2007. Trumping the Matthews

Jr. contract.

 

Fan - Freakin - Tastic.

Matthews, Meche and Pierre are still far worse than this, mostly because all are 5-year deals.

Edited December 9, 2006 by Andy

[Vinestal]

Marquis is not worth 9+ mil a year, he's bad. I really think this was a huge waste of money and a mistake worse than the money KC gave Meche. I hope he proves me wrong and has a great 2007, but I seriously doubt it. I dont understand why anyone would give him 9+ million a season for 3 years. We have a handful of guys that could put up similar numbers for far less money. This just seems very very foolish.

 

Id like to add that I dont think Hendry is a "tool" or an "idiot" or any of that nonsense, I just really dont like this move.

[Soriano12]

. Sure you liked the offseason, after ARam and Soriano came to town.

 

Aram came to town? I never realized he left.

[Sarcastic]

how does st louis get kip wells at one year/three mil, and the cubs get marquis for this? astounding.

Probably because Wells hasn't had a season in which he was both good and healthy since 2003. Marquis sucked last year, but he has made his starts. That's most likely why Hendry was willing to overpay so much to get him.

 

I'm a little late to this thread, but is there any reason to think that he will or won't bounce back from 2006?

[Jon]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

 

exactly what I am talking about. "good chance?" what does that mean? "can outperform." there's simply no basis for it.

 

 

there is no point to this post. it is simply hyperbole, in no way based in facts or analysis, whatsoever. your conviction on the matter doesn't change the fact that your post lacks fairness, logic and reason.

Wow. You sure set him straight.

 

Again, you're doing nothing to support your claim. If you want to claim an intellectually and borderline-morally superior position in your posts, something to back up your claims might be nice.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Not many trades have gone down this offseason. Why is that? It's not b/c Hendry is stupid or Hendry is fat or Hendry eats too many donuts, blah blah blah.

 

Seriously, who uses those sort of arguments to criticize Hendry's offseason?

 

Disgruntled Cubs Fan for one. There are plenty of other village idiots that chime in with that nonsense whenever they see a move they don't like.

 

It's getting old.

 

Attack the post, not the poster.

 

And we do try to limit usage of such terms.

[E.J.]

The news just keeps getting better and better. :x

 

I can't even fathom what went through Hendry's head to make him dish out $28 million over 3 years for Marquis.

[BWcubs21]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

 

Just trying to remind people about what made this board great and how it seems as though it has gotten completely out of hand this year (96 loss season do tend to do stuff like this though). There are a lot of stubborn people on here and I doubt that much will change, hopefully people realize how they have been acting and try to tone it down.

Now what does your post accomplish? You tell me that 3 of our young guys can outperform Marquis, fair enough, but where is your logic behind it? Tell me why they will outpitch him, otherwise your post is just as pointless as you think mine was. I can say player A will outpeform player B all I want, give me something of substance to prove that point. BTW, personally I dont really like the signing much either.

[Andy]

I'm a little late to this thread, but is there any reason to think that he will or won't bounce back from 2006?

It's been said that Rothschild auditioned Marquis and said he knew the mechanical flaw that probably hurt him last year, but I haven't seen an article yet. If true that should help.