Cubs Pursuing Lilly

[NorthsideAvenger]

I'm firmly entrenched in the "Lilly=bad" camp.

 

I'm in the Lilly will "not be great, but won't be bad" group. But I rather have him, then say....Jeff Suppan or Jason Marquis.

[Iceblink]

I'm firmly entrenched in the "Lilly=bad" camp.

 

I'm in the Lilly will "not be great, but won't be bad" group. But I rather have him, then say....Jeff Suppan or Jason Marquis.

 

My camp is expanding to: "Lilly=bad, Suppan & Marquis=also bad."

 

They're average-ish guys who are likely to be even worse in Wrigley (especially Lilly). Not worth the money.

 

Padilla would be almost worth the money, but I've heard of too many character issues with him. Pass.

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm firmly entrenched in the "Lilly=bad" camp.

 

I'm in the Lilly will "not be great, but won't be bad" group. But I rather have him, then say....Jeff Suppan or Jason Marquis.

 

My camp is expanding to: "Lilly=bad, Suppan & Marquis=also bad."

 

They're average-ish guys who are likely to be even worse in Wrigley (especially Lilly). Not worth the money.

 

Padilla would be almost worth the money, but I've heard of too many character issues with him. Pass.

 

ok, so who do you want the cubs to get then?

[NorthsideAvenger]

I'm firmly entrenched in the "Lilly=bad" camp.

 

I'm in the Lilly will "not be great, but won't be bad" group. But I rather have him, then say....Jeff Suppan or Jason Marquis.

 

My camp is expanding to: "Lilly=bad, Suppan & Marquis=also bad."

 

They're average-ish guys who are likely to be even worse in Wrigley (especially Lilly). Not worth the money.

 

Padilla would be almost worth the money, but I've heard of too many character issues with him. Pass.

 

I don't think Lilly will be "bad", but he surely will not be worth what he THINKS he's worth.

[swordsman]

I'm firmly entrenched in the "Lilly=bad" camp.

 

I'm in the Lilly will "not be great, but won't be bad" group. But I rather have him, then say....Jeff Suppan or Jason Marquis.

 

My camp is expanding to: "Lilly=bad, Suppan & Marquis=also bad."

 

They're average-ish guys who are likely to be even worse in Wrigley (especially Lilly). Not worth the money.

 

Padilla would be almost worth the money, but I've heard of too many character issues with him. Pass.

 

ok, so who do you want the cubs to get then?

 

Excellent point. It's pretty easy to be against any player. Hey even the best make an out 2/3 of the time.

[baseball7897]

ESPN

 

While no meeting has been scheduled, Cubs GM Jim Hendry and Ted Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, are expected to get in touch when O'Brien arrives at the meetings this evening

[killthegoat06]

ESPN

 

While no meeting has been scheduled, Cubs GM Jim Hendry and Ted Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, are expected to get in touch when O'Brien arrives at the meetings this evening

 

 

FLIGHT DELAY

[Soul]

ESPN

 

While no meeting has been scheduled, Cubs GM Jim Hendry and Ted Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, are expected to get in touch when O'Brien arrives at the meetings this evening

 

 

FLIGHT DELAY

 

LOL, I got a good laugh out of that one, thanks 8-)

[ToupeeOnFire]

Let me get this straight:

 

Earlier today...

12:15 p.m.: Ted Lilly is rumored to be signing with the Cubs.

 

Now...

5:30 p.m: While no meeting has been scheduled, Cubs GM Jim Hendry and Ted Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, are expected to get in touch when O'Brien arrives at the meetings this evening.

 

So I go look back at 12:15...

12:15 p.m.: The Cubs are in serious pursuit of left-hander Ted Lilly.

 

Nice one, ESPN.

[CP_414]

Let me get this straight:

 

Earlier today...

12:15 p.m.: Ted Lilly is rumored to be signing with the Cubs.

 

Now...

5:30 p.m: While no meeting has been scheduled, Cubs GM Jim Hendry and Ted Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, are expected to get in touch when O'Brien arrives at the meetings this evening.

 

So I go look back at 12:15...

12:15 p.m.: The Cubs are in serious pursuit of left-hander Ted Lilly.

 

Nice one, ESPN.

 

Jerry Crasnick adds another Lilly to Cubs mention...

 

6:20 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick

• While Ted Lilly (Cubs) and Vicente Padilla (Rangers) moved closer to signing multiyear contracts, indications are that Jeff Suppan might remain on the market until after the winter meetings. Suppan is believed to be seeking at least $10 million a year on a multiyear deal and continues to attract interest from St. Louis and several other clubs.

[TruffleShuffle]

someone seriously might give Suppan $10M per year? That's a riot.

[killthegoat06]

Let me get this straight:

 

Earlier today...

12:15 p.m.: Ted Lilly is rumored to be signing with the Cubs.

 

Now...

5:30 p.m: While no meeting has been scheduled, Cubs GM Jim Hendry and Ted Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, are expected to get in touch when O'Brien arrives at the meetings this evening.

 

So I go look back at 12:15...

12:15 p.m.: The Cubs are in serious pursuit of left-hander Ted Lilly.

 

Nice one, ESPN.

 

Jerry Crasnick adds another Lilly to Cubs mention...

 

6:20 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick

• While Ted Lilly (Cubs) and Vicente Padilla (Rangers) moved closer to signing multiyear contracts, indications are that Jeff Suppan might remain on the market until after the winter meetings. Suppan is believed to be seeking at least $10 million a year on a multiyear deal and continues to attract interest from St. Louis and several other clubs.

 

So Lilly's moving closer to signing even though his agent isn't there and so we haven't been talking?

[CubsWin]

I'm firmly entrenched in the "Lilly=bad" camp.

 

I'm in the Lilly will "not be great, but won't be bad" group. But I rather have him, then say....Jeff Suppan or Jason Marquis.

 

My camp is expanding to: "Lilly=bad, Suppan & Marquis=also bad."

 

They're average-ish guys who are likely to be even worse in Wrigley (especially Lilly). Not worth the money.

 

Padilla would be almost worth the money, but I've heard of too many character issues with him. Pass.

 

ok, so who do you want the cubs to get then?

Those are my feelings exactly. When only focusing on the negatives, no one will look good. Zito is too expensive (when compared to the markets of the past, not the future) and apparently he is poised to breakdown. Schmidt won't be worth what he will get paid (again when comparing his possible contract with ones signed in the past which is an invalid comparison in changing times) and he has injury concerns. Lilly is a flyball pitcher who will cost too much. Padilla has character issues of all things.

 

Anyone who is listing these things as reasons for not signing someone is focusing on the wrong stuff. What we should be looking at is will they improve the Cubs over what they currently have and can the Cubs afford to pay them. The latter is a difficult thing to accurately discuss because no one here really knows what the Cubs are willing to spend this off season. Though it is safe to say that there is a limit and it is likely somewhere under 140 million and above 110 million, maybe just above.

 

Any and all other concerns or discussions are pointless window dressing. Every GM has to deal with the same realities. Talent is limited. Trades are difficult to pull off. And every player has their warts. To listen to some of the comments here, it seems like some aren't being very realistic. This isn't fantasy baseball. It doesn't only come down to numbers. There is a very real human element involved and resources are limited.

 

That said, the Cubs have more money than excess talent (both minor and major league) so they are more likely to sign players than trade for them. Given the rumors we have heard about the Cubs' spending limit, I doubt they are getting both Schmidt and Padilla or Schmidt and Lilly. If thats accurate, I want Schmidt or Padilla depending on how much they cost and who they'll be able to get with what is left over. I believe both are the safest bets to be worth the money they will get paid due to their statistical histories. Padilla's floor has been an ERA+ of 96 with a ceiling of around 115. He is almost 5 years younger than Schmidt, but has never been as good. Schmidt's numbers speak for themselves.

[Bruno7481]

someone seriously might give Suppan $10M per year? That's a riot.

 

I think he is worth more than Lilly.

[Electron Blue]

Let me get this straight:

 

Earlier today...

12:15 p.m.: Ted Lilly is rumored to be signing with the Cubs.

 

Now...

5:30 p.m: While no meeting has been scheduled, Cubs GM Jim Hendry and Ted Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, are expected to get in touch when O'Brien arrives at the meetings this evening.

 

So I go look back at 12:15...

12:15 p.m.: The Cubs are in serious pursuit of left-hander Ted Lilly.

 

Nice one, ESPN.

 

Now THAT's the kind of critical thinking and BS-sniffing I'd like to see characterize sports reporting. Well done :D

[CubsWin]

someone seriously might give Suppan $10M per year? That's a riot.

 

I think he is worth more than Lilly.

Suppan's ERA+ has been over league average 7 out of the last 8 seasons and the one year it was below 100, it was so by only 3 points. Lilly is far more inconsistent, but also has a higher ceiling. Lilly posted an ERA+ of 120 in '02 and '04. Suppan hit 120 in '05 but is consistently between 103-112. On the contrary, Lilly's ERA+ was 80 in '05 and 98 in '03. He has been following the pattern of good in the even years and bad in the odd.

 

Suppan can also throw a ground ball much better than Lilly can. Sup's GB% lives at around 46% while Lilly's is only 35-36% while giving up significantly more flyballs. Lilly will make them miss more often with a higher K total and lower BAA (Suppan is clearly more hittable though not by a lot), but Lilly's flyballs in the NL Central could be dangerous. Wrigley is made for a groundball pitcher like Suppan.

 

Suppan is only one year older than Lilly almost to the day, so age shouldn't be that much of a factor.

 

If their costs are similar, the numbers seem to show an advantage to signing Suppan over Lilly.

[cubs121]

if it would come down to Suppan and Lilly and the money was the same... i would take Suppan. :shock:

[Iceblink]

I'm firmly entrenched in the "Lilly=bad" camp.

 

I'm in the Lilly will "not be great, but won't be bad" group. But I rather have him, then say....Jeff Suppan or Jason Marquis.

 

My camp is expanding to: "Lilly=bad, Suppan & Marquis=also bad."

 

They're average-ish guys who are likely to be even worse in Wrigley (especially Lilly). Not worth the money.

 

Padilla would be almost worth the money, but I've heard of too many character issues with him. Pass.

 

ok, so who do you want the cubs to get then?

 

I know we're in a position where we can't be choosy. I also like to take the negative side too often.

 

The only pitchers I've heard are available that are quality pitchers are Schmidt, Westbrook, and Jason Jennings. Jennings one year might've been an illusion, but I'd take a shot on him. Granted, Westbrook and Jennings won't come cheap. Westbrook might cost Pie.

 

Lilly's health and pitching tendencies would make him a sizable risk. Walks and homers and a bad shoulder don't promise much. The odds, IMO, are greater that he'll be bad rather than good. If things went great, he might be a bad #2 starter. In a good case, he could be a decent #3. Most likely, he's a solid #4 pitching 1/2-3/4 of 4 seasons at $10M per.

 

Just because there's not much on the market, do you tie up a roster spot and $10M a year for the next four years on what's likely an average pitcher, at best?

 

Sometimes it's wiser to accept you can't recover from years of injuries and bad personnel decisions in one offseason. Spending isn't necessarily improving.

 

And I'd actually take Suppan before Lilly, too. Neither will be a staff-saver, but Suppan can at least throw a ground ball.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

SIGN JASON SCHMIDT, IT IS OUR ONLY HOPE OBI-WAN, HELP US!

 

(then you can turn your attention to getting us Tejada, please)

[CP_414]

Maybe no Lilly?

 

7:40 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick

• Ted Lilly's agent Larry O'Brien arrived in Orlando on Monday afternoon and told ESPN.com that he plans to meet with front office executives from the Cubs, Giants, Yankees, Blue Jays and Mariners on Tuesday. O'Brien characterized speculation that Lilly has already agreed to a deal with the Cubs as "just a rumor." Lilly is seeking a four-year deal in the $35-40 million range, and the Cubs are among the clubs to have made him an offer. "We're beyond the preliminary stage [with the Cubs], but our discussions are ongoing," O'Brien said.

[BigbadB]

I know we're in a position where we can't be choosy. I also like to take the negative side too often.

 

The only pitchers I've heard are available that are quality pitchers are Schmidt, Westbrook, and Jason Jennings. Jennings one year might've been an illusion, but I'd take a shot on him. Granted, Westbrook and Jennings won't come cheap. Westbrook might cost Pie.

 

Lilly's health and pitching tendencies would make him a sizable risk. Walks and homers and a bad shoulder don't promise much. The odds, IMO, are greater that he'll be bad rather than good. If things went great, he might be a bad #2 starter. In a good case, he could be a decent #3. Most likely, he's a solid #4 pitching 1/2-3/4 of 4 seasons at $10M per.

 

Just because there's not much on the market, do you tie up a roster spot and $10M a year for the next four years on what's likely an average pitcher, at best?

 

Sometimes it's wiser to accept you can't recover from years of injuries and bad personnel decisions in one offseason. Spending isn't necessarily improving.

 

And I'd actually take Suppan before Lilly, too. Neither will be a staff-saver, but Suppan can at least throw a ground ball.

 

Good post. The order in which I evaluate the pitching talent available this offseason is:

 

Schmidt, Jennings, Westbrook, Padilla, Suppan, Lilly, Meche, Batista

 

I don't have an issue with Lilly if he's considered a 4th or 5th starter and they still plan on getting one of the top 3 in that list, preferably Schmidt. If Hendry is grooming him as his big signing, the pitching staff is in big trouble.

[frostwyrm]

It's astounding that 4/40 for an average #4 SP actually sounds like a fair price today. That's an absolutely crazy situation and it won't last. Jimbo is going to financially cripple the Cubs for a very long time just so he can save his job.

[killthegoat06]

CUBS NOT CLOSE!!!! more speculation from mlb-rumors.blogspot.com: (who knows if it's reliable; I'm just in need of good news.)

 

Earlier today, Jason Stark reported that Ted Lilly was set to sign with the Cubs. However, the rumor was false and Lilly's agent is planning to meet with the following teams tomorrow: Cubs, Giants, Yankees, Blue Jays and Mariners. Larry O'Brien was quick to squash the rumor that he has agreed to a deal with the Cubs. Lilly is seeking a four-year deal in the $35-40 million range, and the Cubs are among the clubs to have made him an offer. "We're beyond the preliminary stage [with the Cubs], but our discussions are ongoing," O'Brien said. Yankees GM Brian Cashman has said he has had discussions with O'Brien and they both have interest in returning to New York. Finally, Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi has offered Lilly arbitration and he has til Thursday to accept. However, O'Brien says that they have had regular discussions and plans to meet with them tomorrow.

[cubs121]

Suppan over Lilly! :D

[baseball7897]

Lilly's mechanics are garbage.