Fox Sports: Ramirez SIGNS WITH CUBS!

[E.J.]

Instead of jabbing myself with heroin in the forehead like Tree wants to do, I think I'll go to Hendry's and MacPhail's houses and jab them in the forehead instead. Hendry for not getting this deal done yet and MacPhail for being stupid enough to give Ramirez an opt-out clause. :x

[treebird]

Instead of jabbing myself with heroin in the forehead like Tree wants to do, I think I'll go to Hendry's and MacPhail's houses and jab them in the forehead instead. Hendry for not getting this deal done yet and MacPhail for being stupid enough to give Ramirez an opt-out clause. :x

 

the resolution of our two opinions is obviously to let me come with you. i'll shoot up as you knock. sounds good to me.

[E.J.]

Instead of jabbing myself with heroin in the forehead like Tree wants to do, I think I'll go to Hendry's and MacPhail's houses and jab them in the forehead instead. Hendry for not getting this deal done yet and MacPhail for being stupid enough to give Ramirez an opt-out clause. :x

 

the resolution of our two opinions is obviously to let me come with you. i'll shoot up as you knock. sounds good to me.

 

Once again the dilemma comes up on how you're going to shoot up twice... :shrug:

[Banedon]

Instead of jabbing myself with heroin in the forehead like Tree wants to do, I think I'll go to Hendry's and MacPhail's houses and jab them in the forehead instead. Hendry for not getting this deal done yet and MacPhail for being stupid enough to give Ramirez an opt-out clause. :x

 

the resolution of our two opinions is obviously to let me come with you. i'll shoot up as you knock. sounds good to me.

 

Once again the dilemma comes up on how you're going to shoot up twice... :shrug:

 

He'll figure out after he shoots up the first time. He'll be thinking much more clearly.

[Guest]

Instead of jabbing myself with heroin in the forehead like Tree wants to do, I think I'll go to Hendry's and MacPhail's houses and jab them in the forehead instead. Hendry for not getting this deal done yet and MacPhail for being stupid enough to give Ramirez an opt-out clause. :x

 

so, it would be better if they hadn't given him the clause and Aramis was already on another team?

[Neuby]

This whole fiasco that is Cubs Baseball is wearing thin and to start off this offseason by maybe losing Ramirez is just awful.

[jmajew]

 

Sorry bad math. I'm an idiot. :oops:

 

But if we can have those 5 guys at 75 million it is still hard to build a winner unless you have good young or cheap talent. Our farm system is pretty bad so I don't have faith that that can be used to fill the holes and I don't have faith in Hendry to sign good cheap veteran ballplayers to fill those holes. 40 million is still not enough for the final 20 players on the roster with Hendry as our GM and with guys like Dempster, Barrett, Jones, and Izturis compiling about half of it. So essentially we'd have about 21-22 million for the final 16 spots. I see no way we can contend next year if we sign a bunch of free agents.

 

Edit: I've been trying to say what Treeman just posted. Aramis should get 6/90 maybe even 6/100 however, because of the deep hole we are in right now because of bad contracts for mediocore players I don't know if signing him and another big bat and a pitcher is the way to go. Signing Aramis and waiting another year once some bad contracts are gone to go for the Series is probably the way to go.

 

well then ultimately you see no way we can contend next year at all. which is not bad in and of itself, but the problem here is that the cubs management has been and will continue to be completely inept at recognizing problems then making a plan to overcome those so long as the same figureheads remain. so what is the answer? the only way we ever come close with hendry in charge is to pay aramis that money, hope glendon retires(bad as that sounds), and a few other things fall into place.

 

lovely world we cub fans live in ain't it?

 

sorry if i came off harsh, but in my opinion you were making aramis out to be a greedy monster, and i just can't believe that to be the case.

 

No worries man. I know none of this is personal. I just look at it like a sale. Would you really haggle over 90 dollars compared to 100 dollars. I know if it is me I wouldn't. 10 dollars isn't going to change the world. Just like I think 10 million won't make a big difference if you are already making 90 million.

[Rob]

 

Sorry bad math. I'm an idiot. :oops:

 

But if we can have those 5 guys at 75 million it is still hard to build a winner unless you have good young or cheap talent. Our farm system is pretty bad so I don't have faith that that can be used to fill the holes and I don't have faith in Hendry to sign good cheap veteran ballplayers to fill those holes. 40 million is still not enough for the final 20 players on the roster with Hendry as our GM and with guys like Dempster, Barrett, Jones, and Izturis compiling about half of it. So essentially we'd have about 21-22 million for the final 16 spots. I see no way we can contend next year if we sign a bunch of free agents.

 

Edit: I've been trying to say what Treeman just posted. Aramis should get 6/90 maybe even 6/100 however, because of the deep hole we are in right now because of bad contracts for mediocore players I don't know if signing him and another big bat and a pitcher is the way to go. Signing Aramis and waiting another year once some bad contracts are gone to go for the Series is probably the way to go.

 

well then ultimately you see no way we can contend next year at all. which is not bad in and of itself, but the problem here is that the cubs management has been and will continue to be completely inept at recognizing problems then making a plan to overcome those so long as the same figureheads remain. so what is the answer? the only way we ever come close with hendry in charge is to pay aramis that money, hope glendon retires(bad as that sounds), and a few other things fall into place.

 

lovely world we cub fans live in ain't it?

 

sorry if i came off harsh, but in my opinion you were making aramis out to be a greedy monster, and i just can't believe that to be the case.

 

No worries man. I know none of this is personal. I just look at it like a sale. Would you really haggle over 90 dollars compared to 100 dollars. I know if it is me I wouldn't. 10 dollars isn't going to change the world. Just like I think 10 million won't make a big difference if you are already making 90 million.

 

 

10 bucks is a lot, man. That's two drinks for the fine lady you brought out for the evening....which can make a huge difference.

 

10 bucks is the reason I'm still up and typing here, as opposed to being in bed right now.

[TruffleShuffle]

You have to overpay for talent. You want to field a team full of reasonably priced players, you'll get a losing season nearly every time.

 

If the market for Aramis is Beltran money, then you pay him Beltran money because there isn't another player out there you can get as good as he is.

 

The Cub payroll is going to be $115 million. Aramis at $17m isn't going to kill them; it's going to mean they can't waste money on unproductive bench players. Heaven forbid that happen. Aramis already makes $11m now. We can't find another $6m per in the budget to get him to stay?

 

His contract shouldn't prevent the team from improving itself. Heck, don't resign Blanco, and you're nearly halfway there.

 

exactly. everyone always says that contracts like rusch's aren't the problem with the cubs. if that's the case, tossing another 3 million a year towards aramis shouldn't be a tough decision at all.

 

ah, very well put.... I had never thought of it this way. Next time someone says a contract like Rusch or Izturis isn't why the Cubs are losing, remind them that ARam got away because the Cubs wouldn't pay him the extra $3M per year that another team offered.

[CubsWin]

You have to overpay for talent. You want to field a team full of reasonably priced players, you'll get a losing season nearly every time.

 

If the market for Aramis is Beltran money, then you pay him Beltran money because there isn't another player out there you can get as good as he is.

 

The Cub payroll is going to be $115 million. Aramis at $17m isn't going to kill them; it's going to mean they can't waste money on unproductive bench players. Heaven forbid that happen. Aramis already makes $11m now. We can't find another $6m per in the budget to get him to stay?

 

His contract shouldn't prevent the team from improving itself. Heck, don't resign Blanco, and you're nearly halfway there.

 

exactly. everyone always says that contracts like rusch's aren't the problem with the cubs. if that's the case, tossing another 3 million a year towards aramis shouldn't be a tough decision at all.

 

ah, very well put.... I had never thought of it this way. Next time someone says a contract like Rusch or Izturis isn't why the Cubs are losing, remind them that ARam got away because the Cubs wouldn't pay him the extra $3M per year that another team offered.

One problem with that argument is that no one really can know the reason why someone would not agree to pay 3 million more per season.

 

Is it because they don't have it in their budget, in which case overpaying for players like Neifi or Rusch would have an affect? Or is it that they don't think the player is worth that much money?

 

If you think that paying a guy 15 million a year is more than generous and easily more than his worth when compared against other players of his caliber, but he demands to be paid 18 million, do you give in and allow yourself to get played or do you stand firm on your principles? Remember, you don't know if he actually has any other offers out there that are higher than 15 mill. All you know is that his agent just faxed over a counter offer asking for 3 million more per season. Do you give in?

[TruffleShuffle]

If you think that paying a guy 15 million a year is more than generous and easily more than his worth when compared against other players of his caliber, but he demands to be paid 18 million, do you give in and allow yourself to get played or do you stand firm on your principles?

 

The Cubs have stood firm on their principles, and as a result have not gotten a premium free agent in Lord knows how long? 15 years? 20?

[CubsWin]

If you think that paying a guy 15 million a year is more than generous and easily more than his worth when compared against other players of his caliber, but he demands to be paid 18 million, do you give in and allow yourself to get played or do you stand firm on your principles?

 

The Cubs have stood firm on their principles, and as a result have not gotten a premium free agent in Lord knows how long? 15 years? 20?

And, as a result, the Cubs don't have any terrible long term contracts that are binding their hands behind their back. They have plenty of money to spend this off season. There is a trade off. Its not all just the down side of not having gotten a premium free agent in a long time. There are positives, too. And clearly negatives, as well. I'm not happy about missing out on Beltran or Guerrero. But I'm glad Lee signed for what he did.

 

Sometimes, players simply don't want to play in Chicago for a variety of reasons. To think we know that its because of Hendry's ineptitude or the fact some other player is getting paid 3 million a year for two years is simply impossible to know with any degree of certainty.

 

That said, I want Hendry to get it done. Give him what he wants and move on. But to think that it is valid to say that Ramirez won't return because Hendry signed Wade Miller or someone else is simply unsupportable.

[Illini Iceman]

Instead of jabbing myself with heroin in the forehead like Tree wants to do, I think I'll go to Hendry's and MacPhail's houses and jab them in the forehead instead. Hendry for not getting this deal done yet and MacPhail for being stupid enough to give Ramirez an opt-out clause. :x

 

so, it would be better if they hadn't given him the clause and Aramis was already on another team?

 

This is the point I think a lot of people are missing. ARam is holding firm in this case for the 6th year or another $3M or whatever, but there is an assumption he would have signed the last contract without the out clause but Hendry and MacPhail were just stupid and gave it to him.

 

He had the leverage last time as well and it went to the final hour. It is very likely he told them he needed the out clause or he would not sign the deal. If Hendry had refused there is a good chance people would be complaining because he did not just "do what it takes" to get him signed.

 

Seems like both negotiations are pretty similar but Hendry is ripped for giving in last time and now ripped again because he is not giving in quickly enough this time.

[RynoRules]

If you think that paying a guy 15 million a year is more than generous and easily more than his worth when compared against other players of his caliber, but he demands to be paid 18 million, do you give in and allow yourself to get played or do you stand firm on your principles?

 

The Cubs have stood firm on their principles, and as a result have not gotten a premium free agent in Lord knows how long? 15 years? 20?

 

Probably haven't signed a true top notch guy since Hawk. So yes, 20 yrs.

[C.C.]

If you think that paying a guy 15 million a year is more than generous and easily more than his worth when compared against other players of his caliber, but he demands to be paid 18 million, do you give in and allow yourself to get played or do you stand firm on your principles?

 

The Cubs have stood firm on their principles, and as a result have not gotten a premium free agent in Lord knows how long? 15 years? 20?

 

Probably haven't signed a true top notch guy since Hawk. So yes, 20 yrs.

 

And the only reason we got Hawk was because he basically forced his way on the Cubs by the famous "blank check".

[E.J.]

Sun-Times[/url]"]After a relatively dormant stretch in negotiations, talks between Cubs general manager Jim Hendry and the representative for free-agent third baseman Aramis Ramirez moved into overdrive the last 36 hours, with agent Paul Kinzer insisting Friday night the club would get a hometown discount and saying there was a ''50-50 chance'' a deal could be reached by today.

 

Today also marks the last chance the Cubs have at exclusive rights in dealing with Ramirez. If he isn't signed by today, Ramirez will be free to talk with other teams beginning Sunday. At that point, Kinzer said, Ramirez will be seeking at least a six-year deal.

 

''If we hit the market, basically, we are looking at six or seven years,'' Kinzer told the Sun-Times. ''Some people have put him as the No. 1 free agent on the market. I certainly feel that way, and obviously I'm biased, but I don't think I'm alone.''

 

Kinzer said Ramirez would be seeking a contract similar to the seven-year, $119 million package center fielder Carlos Beltran signed with the New York Mets two years ago. That's the range free-agent outfielder Alfonso Soriano -- also high on the Cubs' wish list -- reportedly is seeking.

[rawaction]

HA! Beat by Willis by a matter of seconds!

 

Maybe the reason Hendry doesn't have any talks planned with Kinser next week, is because will get done this weekend!

 

At this point, I don't even want a hometown discount. If Aramis wants 6 years at $15M per, I offer him 6/100 to not even hit the market by midnight.

Edited November 11, 2006 by rawaction

[CubColtPacer]

Well, 50/50 for today is worse then we thought a week ago, but better then it seemed a day or two ago. So, I guess we just continue to wait.

[CUBZ99]

This is encouraging......I guess.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/132620,CST-SPT-cub11.article

 

After a relatively dormant stretch in negotiations, talks between Cubs general manager Jim Hendry and the representative for free-agent third baseman Aramis Ramirez moved into overdrive the last 36 hours, with agent Paul Kinzer insisting Friday night the club would get a hometown discount and saying there was a ''50-50 chance'' a deal could be reached by today.

 

''There will be a hometown discount,'' Kinzer said. ''They definitely want to keep him, and that is still his No. 1 choice. Jim knows where we stand.''

 

Kinzer and Hendry had dinner together Thursday in Arizona and were scheduled to have another round of late-night talks Friday over the phone. Kinzer said there has been ''significant'' progress in his negotiations with the Cubs.

 

They also talked Padilla.

 

Isn't that always Hendry's MO? He always seems to wait until the last minute and use time as a negotiating tactic. Let's hope it works in this case.

[JeffH]

Hendry is at the goal line.

 

Will he fumble the ball out the back of the end zone?

[BigbadB]

This is where Jim can earn a shred of my respect back. He'll have a long way to go if he can bring back Ramirez, but that would be a good start.

[USSoccer]

Please...please get this done.

[rawaction]

This is where Jim can earn a shred of my respect back. He'll have a long way to go if he can bring back Ramirez, but that would be a good start.

 

That's the only start to me. If he can't bring back Aramis, I can't think of a realistic scenario where I would ever say anything good about Hendry again.

[wade]

This sounds a lot better than what we've heard lately.

 

Maybe they had to wait and make sure they missed out on the Japanese ace to know how much cash they wanted to offer?

[USSoccer]

Is there a specific time today that our negotiating window ends, or does it go til midnight?