Pierre Gone?

[UK1679666180]

I used to be a big Juan Pierre fan. I thought he would return to his 04 form this year. But it never happened. He is probably one of the most selfish baseball players I have seen in awhile. His lack of ability to draw walks at the leadoff spot has really turned me away from being a fan of his.

 

Pierre wasn't selfish, just has an incorrect apporach for someone who has to depend on getting on base as often as possible.

[CubinNY]

What I want to know is why Pierre is constantly lauded by Chicago baseball writers for performing at career norms from June - September, while ARam is hammered by those same writers for doing likewise.

 

Many reasons:

 

writers like hustle and trying, and you can't write a story without saying Pierre hustles and tries hard while Ramirez doesn't

 

writers like picking on the "new" baseball where homeruns are big deals, and they really like guys who just put the ball in play

 

writers like the bunt and stolen base and think of them as lost arts

 

pierre played on a WS winner, and Ramirez has played for the Cubs and Pirates. If there's one things writers will fall back on more than anything else, it's the notion that players are winners or losers depending on which teams they've played on.

 

None of those reasons account for the real, primary reason: Ramirez is a run prodcuer and Pierre is not. When Lee went down with injury, Ramirez (and nobody else really) was expected to pick up the slack as the primary run prodcuer, which he didn't.

 

I'm not justifying the argument either way, that's just my view on the their reasoning.

 

It's really frickin hard to produce runs when no one is on base in front of you and no one who can hit his weight is batting behind you.

 

During his slide Aramis wasn't given anything to hit. Instead of being paitent he expanded his zone and started swinging at pitches he shouldn't. Even so, IIRC he had around career norms for walks.

 

Aramis was a victim of circumstances, not the cause of them.

[soccer10k]

I would love to see Pierre anywhere but the North Side.

 

Fixed.

[cubweiser03]

I've been hastling with this....Do the Cubs offer Pierre arbitration if he hasnt signed before Dec 14 or 15? If they dont, they wont get the 1st round draft afforded his Type A free agency tag. Hopefully he will sign a multi year deal before then, but looking at the last couple years of FA teams have been waiting a long time to sign FA and many are signed post Dec 14 or 15 or whatever that day is.

[Balsa]

What I want to know is why Pierre is constantly lauded by Chicago baseball writers for performing at career norms from June - September, while ARam is hammered by those same writers for doing likewise.

 

Many reasons:

 

writers like hustle and trying, and you can't write a story without saying Pierre hustles and tries hard while Ramirez doesn't

 

writers like picking on the "new" baseball where homeruns are big deals, and they really like guys who just put the ball in play

 

writers like the bunt and stolen base and think of them as lost arts

 

pierre played on a WS winner, and Ramirez has played for the Cubs and Pirates. If there's one things writers will fall back on more than anything else, it's the notion that players are winners or losers depending on which teams they've played on.

 

Wow. That's so dead on accurate. Same with most radio show hosts.

[Wheelimus]

I do think it would be hilarious to see Juan coached by Lou. I could easily see him making a girly slappish swing at a pitch and Lou slapping the taste out of his mouth and screaming "EVERYTIME YOU SWING AT JUNK I'M DOING THAT TO YOU." :twisted:

[frostwyrm]

Even if Hendry doesn't want Pierre back he has to make a public show of interest because otherwise he looks like a complete idiot for not trading Pierre at the deadline. Personally I think Hendry really would like Pierre back if the payroll stays put, but if the $115M paroll is for real then Hendry can say the extra money allows for an upgrade(Soriano) and let Pierre walk without any embarrassment, assuming the payroll increase was decided after July 31st.

[UMFan83]

The best thing I've read about Pierre was that he is one leg injury away from being useless.

 

Thank about it, who wants a hobbled leadoff man with a poor OBP related to his average who can't throw and can't steal bases?

 

And knowing the Cubs, it will be only a matter of time before he receives said injury if he stays.

 

That said, I don't think he wants to be here.

[jtownie]

I do think it would be hilarious to see Juan coached by Lou. I could easily see him making a girly slappish swing at a pitch and Lou slapping the taste out of his mouth and screaming "EVERYTIME YOU SWING AT JUNK I'M DOING THAT TO YOU." :twisted:

 

Would he kiss him on the forehead afterwards?

[Wheelimus]

Yes.

[Warpticon]

Although some don't believe in analyzing segments of seasons per say....

 

This guy was arguably the worst leadoff hitter in baseball during April and May. This was one of the factors that contributed to the Cubs start from hell.

 

By this logic, the sun is arguably hot.

[cjbucks]

There are multiple writers that have suggested Pierre is one of the lone bright spots and needs to be retained, while at the same time dying to see Ramirez leave.

 

pierre hustles and hustling is the most important part of the game! remember the gashouse gang? they hustled, never washed their uniforms and won the world series, hence hustling and dirty uniforms or just poor hygiene practices are necessary to build a world series team.

 

Thats what I'm talking about! You got hustling, dirty uniforms and poor personal hygiene - thats Lenny Dykstra and he won a world series!!

[Abe Frohman]

I have mixed thoughts on Pierre.

 

*I don't think he seems to want to return to the Cubs. Maybe that changed with the hiring of Piniella and talk of improving the team, but his comments ("I won't rule out coming back") were less than convincing that he wants to return.

 

*He absolutely stunk in the first half. IMO, a big reason why the Cubs were horrible - but it's not how you start, it's how you finish. Pierre finished strong, but too little too late.

 

*He will surely demand around $10 million per year. I don't think he fits the Cubs plans since the Cubs now have options for a leadoff man (Theriot) at a cheap price, and the need for more power in the Outfield.

 

*I would love to see Pierre return, but ONLY if Jones is traded and at least two SOLID power guys (a SS and RF) are required in addition to Aramis Ramirez being retained.

 

Personally, I think Pierre is gone-pecan, and that is good since the Cubs REALLY need to improve the offensive production of the OF.

[Laura]

If the Cubs hope to turn things around next year, I can't see it happening with Pierre in CF. He'd be very expensive. The Cubs have so very many holes that spending a lot of money on a guy who is so dependent on batting average to get on base; doesn't hit for power and doesn't steal bases at a high enough percentage is just going to drag them down.

 

And yeah, he seemed less than enthused at the prospect of returning. I just hope Hendry doesn't try to overpay him to return.

[Abe Frohman]

Agreed Serena, and if you think about it - it is going to cost inside of $5 million of what it would cost to re-sign Pierre, to get Soriano. Most likely, anyway. I just wonder how badly Soriano wants to get back to the AL, or how much he (still) wants to play 2B.

 

BTW - thanks for posting the link to the Piniella Presser the other day.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I would LOVE to see Juan "4-3 Groundout" Pierre making $10 mill from the White Sox, and hearing Guillen trying to defending "Sir Crappy-a-lot" to the White Sox fan. Other then that, I wouldn't mind St. Looey wasted money on Pierre.

[bdutts]

Based on an interview an AM 1000 this past Tuesday, it seems that Hendry is willing to resign Pierre "at the right price". He's going to test the free agent market and Hendry "hopes" to get something done with him.

 

I have read what others have posted here that Pierre hasn't fallen in love with Wrigley or the Cubs or whatever.

 

So, we'll see soon enough.

[DiamondMind]

Keep this in mind - Pierre led the NL in hits and had a .350+ OBP after the break.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Keep this in mind - Pierre led the NL in hits and had a .350+ OBP after the break.

 

He also led the NL in making outs.

[fromthestretch]

Keep this in mind - Pierre led the NL in hits and had a .350+ OBP after the break.

 

Keep this in mind - From Opening Day 2005 until the 2006 All-Star break (a span of over 1000 at-bats), Pierre's OBP was below .325.

 

In 2002, playing in Colorado, his OBP was barely over .330.

 

He's not worth the money.

[Pinktermite]

Pierre would be a good 8th place hitter on a team with better hitters...and nothing more. But he'd cost too much. I think he's gone. I hope he is gone anyway.

[USSoccer]

Keep this in mind - Pierre led the NL in hits and had a .350+ OBP after the break.

 

He also led the NL in making outs.

 

I think he was 11th all time in outs this past season.

 

If it comes down to Pierre or Aramis and some other CF, I hope Hendry chooses the latter. Pierre won't be worth half of what he signs.

[craig]

I don't see any of the Pierre comments as suggesting that Pierre dislikes Cubs or that Hendry doesn't want him back.

 

I clearly don't see a commitment from Hendry to resign him.

 

To me it looks like a conditional interest. Hendry is interested in Pierre, but it depends on the price. Pierre would consider coming back. But he needs to explore free agency first. If the price Hendry is willing to pay is as good as the market will offer, he may well take it later. But no point in signing a deal, when there's a chance that there will be a lot more money available in free agency.

 

I'm not sure either side knows what free agency will offer Pierre. So until Pierre scopes the market, it doesn't make sense for him to sign what might be well-below-market offer. Nor for Hendry to assume anything.

 

Often players (and agents) have inflated expectations, and the market teaches them otherwise. (I recall Gutierrez and Dunston both declining Cub offers, only to end up settlng for offers that were barely half as large on the market.)

 

It is possible, of course, that Hendry does have a better feel for the market, and he's pretty sure what he'd be willing to pay Pierre, in either length or per-year dollars, is unlikely to be competitive. That's entirely possible.

 

I do think it may be length as much or more than per-year dollars that's at issue. Pierre may be able to get a long-term deal, at least 3 and perhaps even 4 years guaranteed. But if Hendry is committed to keeping Pie and believes he's going to be good, it's possible that it's length more than anything that Hendry doesn't want to do with Pierre.

[BigbadB]

Pierre will likely have a security blanket to fall back on when he does file for free agency. The Cubs MUST offer arbitration in order to restock the farm system Hendry pilfered when he made the trade to get Pierre.

 

Pierre may not be able to find a long term contract that would match what he might get in arbitration, and Pierre could then attempt to put up a better season than last year so that he can possibly land that bigger contract next year.

 

Hendry will likely keep money aside in the event teams balk at losing compensation for signing Pierre and offering him a hefty contract.

 

What really scares me is that if Aramis were to opt out and become a free agent, Hendry might put more energy towards giving Pierre a long term deal.

 

Inevitably, that will likely be the end of Hendry if that happens. Because I really can't imagine this team being very good next year with huge money tied up in mediocre players.

[NewUserName]

I was looking at all CFers stats listed at ESPN. They had 20 listed. Of the 20 Pierre easily is in the bottom quarter of offensive cfers. I would have rather had ever other one except for Willie Taveras and Chone Figgons and its not like Pierre is really better than these 2 either he just isnt clearly worse then them. Here is the real kicker. Pierre is probably worse lead-off man of the group also. Remarkably someone may pay this guy 10 million a year because he was better after the All-Star break. People ask my why I would avoid free agents.