Matsuzaka: Red Sox Win w/ $51.1M Bid

[mul21]

Remember, whoever wins the bidding has Matsuzaka's rights for 6 years, regardless of the contract he signs.

 

So what is Boras's position then? Why does he think he can get Matsuzaka back on the market at age 29 for the real payday?

 

Higher numbers in arbitration? Also may want to get him to prove he's the real deal at 3yrs/$15-20mil and then get the real payday of 5/$75 after those initial 3 years.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'd believe the Red Sox bid 45 million. I also believe that if the Red Sox did make that bid, they have no intention of paying one cent of that 45 million. If they don't reach an agreement, they don't have to pay it. So what is stopping a team, like the Red Sox, from blocking another team (the Yankees) from getting him by making a ridiculous bid that they won't follow up?

 

They may pay it if Matsuzaka agrees to a low-ball contract. Many people were predicting a 5/50 deal for Matsuzaka with a 20 million posting fee. In essence, 5/70 or 14 million a season for him.

 

The Red Sox may have bid 45 million, but only plan to offer him a 5/25 contract or a 5/30 contract. The total cost would roughly be the same. They may feel it's worth the risk.

 

I have heard a few times Boras is going to want 3 years max on the contract. So a $45 million posting fee is more difficult to justify when the agent's position and starting point is known to be 3 years.

 

Remember, whoever wins the bidding has Matsuzaka's rights for 6 years, regardless of the contract he signs.

 

They could have a clause put in like the Yankees did with Matsui that after a 3-year deal, the team is contractually bound to non-tender him.

 

Of course, the Red Sox could still resist those demands and allow him to go back to Japan.

 

Furthermore, if Boras has said to be telling teams he wants a 3-year deal, that may have been why there were rumors of a low posting fee.

[goonys evil twin]

Remember, whoever wins the bidding has Matsuzaka's rights for 6 years, regardless of the contract he signs.

 

So what is Boras's position then? Why does he think he can get Matsuzaka back on the market at age 29 for the real payday?

 

Can you put a clause into a contract making someone a free agent early? Maybe Boras thinks he can get that.

 

In theory, you could demand a 3-year contract, plus a guarantee that the team would not offer arbitration after 3 years, effectively ending their rights to his service and making him a free agent.

[1908]

Can you put a clause into a contract making someone a free agent early? Maybe Boras thinks he can get that.

The Yankees did so for Hideki Matsui in his first contract.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Remember, whoever wins the bidding has Matsuzaka's rights for 6 years, regardless of the contract he signs.

 

So what is Boras's position then? Why does he think he can get Matsuzaka back on the market at age 29 for the real payday?

 

Because you're guaranteed at least similar money in arbitration, and if Matsuzaka has success he may parlay it into a longer, even more lucrative contract than the one he'll be negotiating now.

 

And to answer Tree, I'm pretty sure you can put a clause to make someone an early free agent, although I'm not 100% sure. I think I remember hearing about an instance of that happening though.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

However, the Red Sox may have bid so high knowing they wouldn't give-in to the 3-year demand.

 

It would be hard to accuse them of bad faith when they could say that this system gives them his rights for six years.

 

Imagine if a first round draft pick wanted to be set free after three years? Would MLB say the team that drafted him acted in bad faith if they didn't give in? No.

 

So, while bidding high and offering a ridiculously low contract might bring about scrutiny of MLB, bidding ridiculously high and then offering a moderate contract without the 3-year stipulation likely will not...despite how much Boras will protest it.

[nilodnayr]

That's insane if true. Better get ready to sign Zito. By the way Gammons said an interesting stat on Zito last night. He hasn't missed a start since his junior year of high school, and he has never had a losing record. Maybe we should bring him in.

 

Thats great if you value a guy by using a stat he does not significantly control and the fact that he shows up.

 

I show up to work every day and do a decent job within my group which happens to be succesful because we have a lot of other guys that do a good job too...pay me 15M.

 

The guy did win a Cy Young, so he isn't just showing up. For a team desperate for reliable starters, targeting a guy who has never missed a start (and is generally regarded as an elite pitcher) is a good idea.

 

Yeah, he won the CY 5 years ago...and Pedro was much better than him that year and should have won. Look who regards him as an elite pitcher. The same people who quote wins and RBIs as a measure of success. I don't value their opinion. He WAS an elite pitcher, but now looks like an 4.00 ERA guy (1.40 WHIP two of the last three years!!!).

[TheDude]

Yeah, he won the CY 5 years ago...and Pedro was much better than him that year and should have won. Look who regards him as an elite pitcher. The same people who quote wins and RBIs as a measure of success. I don't value their opinion. He WAS an elite pitcher, but now looks like an 4.00 ERA guy (1.40 WHIP two of the last three years!!!).

 

He is still under 30 years old and a switch to the National League favors him. Yes he has an issue with walks. No he isn't Greg Maddux in his prime.

 

But he is in the top 2 for FA pitchers this year (not counting Matsuzaka as an FA). And he does improve the Cubs pitching staff. I like Schmidt more, primarily because I think power wins more often in the playoffs, but Zito is good. You have to take what the market bears - it's not like the Cubs can summon up a better option than Zito or Schmidt.

[NorthsideAvenger]

First: We have rumors that Texas Rangers have won the bidding for under $21 million.

 

Second: We have rumors the Cubs have won the bidding at around $30 mill, or so.

 

NOW, we have the Red Sox rumored to be the highest bidder at anywhere between $38-45 mill.

 

Can you see why I am skeptical about anything until it becomes official?

My guess, this rumored about the Red Sox is just that....a rumor. So, I wouldn't sweat about the Red Sox getting him, just yet.

[abuck1220]

i hope the red sox did win it...maybe it will keep them from going after drew.

[TheDude]

First: We have rumors that Texas Rangers have won the bidding for under $21 million.

 

Second: We have rumors the Cubs have won the bidding at around $30 mill, or so.

 

NOW, we have the Red Sox rumored to be the highest bidder at anywhere between $38-45 mill.

 

Can you see why I am skeptical about anything until it becomes official?

My guess, this rumored about the Red Sox is just that....a rumor. So, I wouldn't sweat about the Red Sox getting him, just yet.

 

I agree, but ESPN is usually more responsible with its reporting than some random site with a rumor. If it's on ESPN's web site, it is much more credible.

[NorthsideAvenger]

First: We have rumors that Texas Rangers have won the bidding for under $21 million.

 

Second: We have rumors the Cubs have won the bidding at around $30 mill, or so.

 

NOW, we have the Red Sox rumored to be the highest bidder at anywhere between $38-45 mill.

 

Can you see why I am skeptical about anything until it becomes official?

My guess, this rumored about the Red Sox is just that....a rumor. So, I wouldn't sweat about the Red Sox getting him, just yet.

 

I agree, but ESPN is usually more responsible with its reporting than some random site with a rumor. If it's on ESPN's web site, it is much more credible.

 

ESPN yes, Buster Olney...no.

[andrew9991]

Quick Question: Does Matsuzaka's club absolutely have to accept the highest offer??? For instance, if they somehow thought that a bid of 45 million was never going to reach their pockets could they not move on to what was thought to be a more "sincere" bid?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Quick Question: Does Matsuzaka's club absolutely have to accept the highest offer??? For instance, if they somehow thought that a bid of 45 million was never going to reach their pockets could they not move on to what was thought to be a more "sincere" bid?

 

I think they are bound to accept the high bid or else reject all bids.

[Rob]

Quick Question: Does Matsuzaka's club absolutely have to accept the highest offer??? For instance, if they somehow thought that a bid of 45 million was never going to reach their pockets could they not move on to what was thought to be a more "sincere" bid?

 

Nope.

 

Selig might step in if the top offer is insincere, but the Japanese teams have no control over any of it.

[Vinestal]

SO when will we hear something official?

[nilodnayr]

Yeah, he won the CY 5 years ago...and Pedro was much better than him that year and should have won. Look who regards him as an elite pitcher. The same people who quote wins and RBIs as a measure of success. I don't value their opinion. He WAS an elite pitcher, but now looks like an 4.00 ERA guy (1.40 WHIP two of the last three years!!!).

 

He is still under 30 years old and a switch to the National League favors him. Yes he has an issue with walks. No he isn't Greg Maddux in his prime.

 

But he is in the top 2 for FA pitchers this year (not counting Matsuzaka as an FA). And he does improve the Cubs pitching staff. I like Schmidt more, primarily because I think power wins more often in the playoffs, but Zito is good. You have to take what the market bears - it's not like the Cubs can summon up a better option than Zito or Schmidt.

 

I dont have a problem with Zito. I think hes fine, but severly overrated. The orignal argument was that the two characteristics that Gammons used to value Zito in your original post...being healthy and winning are poor ways to measure a pitchers value. Just because he is in the top 2 FA for his position doesnt mean I'm enthused by him...hell, Wes Helms is in the top 2 FA for 3b (assuming we keep ARAM).

[nilodnayr]

SO when will we hear something official?

 

Probably nothing until Sunday around midnight Sunday (central time) at the earliest.

[b_wiggy_66]

Possbily tonight. It is night there right now so maybe by morning over there some of the Japanese papers will have found out something.

[Sammy Sofa]

First: We have rumors that Texas Rangers have won the bidding for under $21 million.

 

Second: We have rumors the Cubs have won the bidding at around $30 mill, or so.

 

NOW, we have the Red Sox rumored to be the highest bidder at anywhere between $38-45 mill.

 

Can you see why I am skeptical about anything until it becomes official?

My guess, this rumored about the Red Sox is just that....a rumor. So, I wouldn't sweat about the Red Sox getting him, just yet.

 

I agree, but ESPN is usually more responsible with its reporting than some random site with a rumor. If it's on ESPN's web site, it is much more credible.

 

But it's also revolving around the Red Sox. You know if it was the same rumor about the Yankees they'd be jumping all over it, too. Their network revolves around Boston and New York. Stirring the pot gets the armies watching.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Possbily tonight. It is night there right now so maybe by morning over there some of the Japanese papers will have found out something.

 

Unfortunately, we've thought that the past two days.

[KingCubsFan]

Yeah, he won the CY 5 years ago...and Pedro was much better than him that year and should have won. Look who regards him as an elite pitcher. The same people who quote wins and RBIs as a measure of success. I don't value their opinion. He WAS an elite pitcher, but now looks like an 4.00 ERA guy (1.40 WHIP two of the last three years!!!).

 

He is still under 30 years old and a switch to the National League favors him. Yes he has an issue with walks. No he isn't Greg Maddux in his prime.

 

But he is in the top 2 for FA pitchers this year (not counting Matsuzaka as an FA). And he does improve the Cubs pitching staff. I like Schmidt more, primarily because I think power wins more often in the playoffs, but Zito is good. You have to take what the market bears - it's not like the Cubs can summon up a better option than Zito or Schmidt.

 

I dont have a problem with Zito. I think hes fine, but severly overrated. The orignal argument was that the two characteristics that Gammons used to value Zito in your original post...being healthy and winning are poor ways to measure a pitchers value. Just because he is in the top 2 FA for his position doesnt mean I'm enthused by him...hell, Wes Helms is in the top 2 FA for 3b (assuming we keep ARAM).

Health is a poor way to measure a pitcher's value?

[nilodnayr]

Possbily tonight. It is night there right now so maybe by morning over there some of the Japanese papers will have found out something.

You forget that they are a half day ahead, so tonight will be Saturday morning for them...I'm guessing the board will not make their decision over the weekend.

[radarluv1]

Possbily tonight. It is night there right now so maybe by morning over there some of the Japanese papers will have found out something.

You forget that they are a half day ahead, so tonight will be Saturday morning for them...I'm guessing the board will not make their decision over the weekend.

 

this is a pretty big deal for them, they may not be waiting around for 5 oclock and then saying 'okay time to go, everyone have a good weekend'. the japanese are hard workers, maybe will be putting in some OT this weekend. i hope.

[Sammy Sofa]

I can see this backfiring for the Red Sox, if it is true they won the bid. You KNOW being outspent so dramatically by their rivals is going to send the Yankees into overdrive. Watch them go nuts and stomp everyone to end up with Zito and Schmidt and then something extra crazy like Soriano, too.