Maddux and $$$ to the Dodgers for Cesar Izturis

[goonys evil twin]

I think sometimes people can get blinded by OBP. His OBP is good and his production is even better. What we couldn't use those those 28 HR and 82 RBI this year?

 

RBI is a team stat, you don't take them with you when you switch teams. Carlos Lee is pretty mediocre for a slugging corner OF. He's got a career OPS+ of 111, hardly the stuff of stars. And it's not like he was at 90 for a few years and then went to 135 the past couple. He's been a consistenly above average hitter, but not much more. Those are definitely not the kind of numbers you throw big year, big money contracts at, especially when that contract will take a player from 31-35/36.

 

We aren't blinded by OBP, we are completely devoid of it. If the team had any ability in that department we wouldn't clamor for it so frequently, or focus so closely on it.

[oldcubsfan]

carlos lee is not the answer, either. hendry will have to pull off a big trade to bring someone with a big bat AND a good OBP to this team in the offseason.

 

What a guy hitting .292 with 28 HR and 82 RBI with a OBP .352 isn't good enough? Huh?

 

Carlos Lee is 96th of qualified players in OBP. He's not a bad player, but on a team that's going to need an OBP stud to overcome low OBP guys in Izturis, Jones, and possibly Cedeno, it's not enough.

 

Gee, Hee Flop Choi is an OBP stud, he just can't hit too well.

[C.C.]

I think sometimes people can get blinded by OBP. His OBP is good and his production is even better. What we couldn't use those those 28 HR and 82 RBI this year?

 

RBI is a team stat, you don't take them with you when you switch teams. Carlos Lee is pretty mediocre for a slugging corner OF. He's got a career OPS+ of 111, hardly the stuff of stars. And it's not like he was at 90 for a few years and then went to 135 the past couple. He's been a consistenly above average hitter, but not much more. Those are definitely not the kind of numbers you throw big year, big money contracts at, especially when that contract will take a player from 31-35/36.

 

We aren't blinded by OBP, we are completely devoid of it. If the team had any ability in that department we wouldn't clamor for it so frequently, or focus so closely on it.

 

But you still need hitters to drive in the people that are on base. Which is what Lee does. I mean his OBP is not terrible. Who else in the FA market next year would be a better fit. Sheffield?

[goonys evil twin]

But you still need hitters to drive in the people that are on base. Which is what Lee does. I mean his OBP is not terrible. Who else in the FA market next year would be a better fit. Sheffield?

 

Which is what he does? He's got 2 100 RBI seasons in his career, and he's 30, and has hit in the middle of some good lineups. That's nothing special. He doesn't have an inate ability to drive runners in. He's just a second rate corner outfielder who is going to get way too big of a contract, and tha contract will last through his declining years.

[C.C.]

But you still need hitters to drive in the people that are on base. Which is what Lee does. I mean his OBP is not terrible. Who else in the FA market next year would be a better fit. Sheffield?

 

Which is what he does? He's got 2 100 RBI seasons in his career, and he's 30, and has hit in the middle of some good lineups. That's nothing special. He doesn't have an inate ability to drive runners in. He's just a second rate corner outfielder who is going to get way too big of a contract, and tha contract will last through his declining years.

 

So who should the Cubs target next year if you were GM? I'm just curious...

[C.C.]

It was funny on the Murphy show Hendry said he value's RISP over OBP.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

carlos lee is not the answer, either. hendry will have to pull off a big trade to bring someone with a big bat AND a good OBP to this team in the offseason.

 

What a guy hitting .292 with 28 HR and 82 RBI with a OBP .352 isn't good enough? Huh?

 

Carlos Lee is 96th of qualified players in OBP. He's not a bad player, but on a team that's going to need an OBP stud to overcome low OBP guys in Izturis, Jones, and possibly Cedeno, it's not enough.

 

Gee, Hee Flop Choi is an OBP stud, he just can't hit too well.

 

See, this is called trolling.

[baseball7897]

It was funny on the Murphy show Hendry said he value's RISP over OBP.

 

Yeah I heard that today also. Murphy sounded like he was very upset with Hendry's comments.

[C.C.]

carlos lee is not the answer, either. hendry will have to pull off a big trade to bring someone with a big bat AND a good OBP to this team in the offseason.

 

What a guy hitting .292 with 28 HR and 82 RBI with a OBP .352 isn't good enough? Huh?

 

Carlos Lee is 96th of qualified players in OBP. He's not a bad player, but on a team that's going to need an OBP stud to overcome low OBP guys in Izturis, Jones, and possibly Cedeno, it's not enough.

 

Gee, Hee Flop Choi is an OBP stud, he just can't hit too well.

 

See, this is called trolling.

 

I think it was in jest. I didn't take it as trolling.

[oldcubsfan]

carlos lee is not the answer, either. hendry will have to pull off a big trade to bring someone with a big bat AND a good OBP to this team in the offseason.

 

What a guy hitting .292 with 28 HR and 82 RBI with a OBP .352 isn't good enough? Huh?

 

Carlos Lee is 96th of qualified players in OBP. He's not a bad player, but on a team that's going to need an OBP stud to overcome low OBP guys in Izturis, Jones, and possibly Cedeno, it's not enough.

 

Gee, Hee Flop Choi is an OBP stud, he just can't hit too well.

 

See, this is called trolling.

No, just stating a well known fact.

[C.C.]

carlos lee is not the answer, either. hendry will have to pull off a big trade to bring someone with a big bat AND a good OBP to this team in the offseason.

 

What a guy hitting .292 with 28 HR and 82 RBI with a OBP .352 isn't good enough? Huh?

 

Carlos Lee is 96th of qualified players in OBP. He's not a bad player, but on a team that's going to need an OBP stud to overcome low OBP guys in Izturis, Jones, and possibly Cedeno, it's not enough.

 

Gee, Hee Flop Choi is an OBP stud, he just can't hit too well.

 

See, this is called trolling.

No, just stating a well known fact.

 

Sheez those OBP guys get testy eh? :wink:

[goonys evil twin]

But you still need hitters to drive in the people that are on base. Which is what Lee does. I mean his OBP is not terrible. Who else in the FA market next year would be a better fit. Sheffield?

 

Which is what he does? He's got 2 100 RBI seasons in his career, and he's 30, and has hit in the middle of some good lineups. That's nothing special. He doesn't have an inate ability to drive runners in. He's just a second rate corner outfielder who is going to get way too big of a contract, and tha contract will last through his declining years.

 

So who should the Cubs target next year if you were GM? I'm just curious...

 

If I was GM this team wouldn't look at all like this.

 

But if I inherited this mess, and only had a year or two to turn it around (which I assume is Hendry's timeline), then, I guess I'd throw money at Soriano, with Lee as a backup plan and just hope it doesn't blow up in my face too badly. I'd love to trade Izturis off to Baltimore in a swap for Tejada.

 

I really don't know. I used to spend lots of time looking at possible moves and whatnot, but haven't recently. The endless series of disappointing moves took the fun out of it.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

carlos lee is not the answer, either. hendry will have to pull off a big trade to bring someone with a big bat AND a good OBP to this team in the offseason.

 

What a guy hitting .292 with 28 HR and 82 RBI with a OBP .352 isn't good enough? Huh?

 

Carlos Lee is 96th of qualified players in OBP. He's not a bad player, but on a team that's going to need an OBP stud to overcome low OBP guys in Izturis, Jones, and possibly Cedeno, it's not enough.

 

Gee, Hee Flop Choi is an OBP stud, he just can't hit too well.

 

See, this is called trolling.

No, just stating a well known fact.

 

No need for the nicknames then.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

carlos lee is not the answer, either. hendry will have to pull off a big trade to bring someone with a big bat AND a good OBP to this team in the offseason.

 

What a guy hitting .292 with 28 HR and 82 RBI with a OBP .352 isn't good enough? Huh?

 

Carlos Lee is 96th of qualified players in OBP. He's not a bad player, but on a team that's going to need an OBP stud to overcome low OBP guys in Izturis, Jones, and possibly Cedeno, it's not enough.

 

Gee, Hee Flop Choi is an OBP stud, he just can't hit too well.

 

See, this is called trolling.

No, just stating a well known fact.

 

Also a well known fact: the United States was originally a colony of England.

 

It's irrelevant to the topic at hand and posted just to get a rise out of someone or start an argument. That's trolling defined. But whatever, if it makes you feel better to use strawmen like this instead of debating the topic at hand, go ahead.

[oldcubsfan]

It isn't irrelevant when you think Lee doesn't have good enough OBP.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It isn't irrelevant when you think Lee doesn't have good enough OBP.

 

You're gonna need to elaborate, because there's still no connection between the two.

[oldcubsfan]

It isn't irrelevant when you think Lee doesn't have good enough OBP.

 

You're gonna need to elaborate, because there's still no connection between the two.

 

I believe you stated that the Cubs will not need Lee, but rather an OBP stud.

[UK1679666180]

It isn't irrelevant when you think Lee doesn't have good enough OBP.

 

You're gonna need to elaborate, because there's still no connection between the two.

 

I believe you stated that the Cubs will not need Lee, but rather an OBP stud.

 

I believe he said that Lee is not enough, rather than they will not need Lee.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It isn't irrelevant when you think Lee doesn't have good enough OBP.

 

You're gonna need to elaborate, because there's still no connection between the two.

 

I believe you stated that the Cubs will not need Lee, but rather an OBP stud.

 

Like UK pointed out, that's not what I said, and how does that relate to Choi?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

But you still need hitters to drive in the people that are on base. Which is what Lee does. I mean his OBP is not terrible. Who else in the FA market next year would be a better fit. Sheffield?

 

Which is what he does? He's got 2 100 RBI seasons in his career, and he's 30, and has hit in the middle of some good lineups. That's nothing special. He doesn't have an inate ability to drive runners in. He's just a second rate corner outfielder who is going to get way too big of a contract, and tha contract will last through his declining years.

 

So who should the Cubs target next year if you were GM? I'm just curious...

 

If I was GM this team wouldn't look at all like this.

 

But if I inherited this mess, and only had a year or two to turn it around (which I assume is Hendry's timeline), then, I guess I'd throw money at Soriano, with Lee as a backup plan and just hope it doesn't blow up in my face too badly. I'd love to trade Izturis off to Baltimore in a swap for Tejada.

 

I really don't know. I used to spend lots of time looking at possible moves and whatnot, but haven't recently. The endless series of disappointing moves took the fun out of it.

 

I can empathize with you, Goony. With this mess, it's tough to make moves that I feel will fix it.

[oldcubsfan]

It isn't irrelevant when you think Lee doesn't have good enough OBP.

 

You're gonna need to elaborate, because there's still no connection between the two.

 

I believe you stated that the Cubs will not need Lee, but rather an OBP stud.

 

Like UK pointed out, that's not what I said, and how does that relate to Choi?

Choi is all about OBP.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This still doesn't make any sense, why not just make the point you're trying to make?

[Geech]

This still doesn't make any sense, why not just make the point you're trying to make?

 

I'm pretty sure that this is actually the point he's trying to make. This is just part of his campaign to get all the calculator crap out of baseball. All you crazy moneyballers need to stop thinking with your heads and start thinking with your gut.

[abuck1220]

It was funny on the Murphy show Hendry said he value's RISP over OBP.

 

it's shocking that someone who actually believes this would get to such a high-ranking position in baseball.

[Jon]

It isn't irrelevant when you think Lee doesn't have good enough OBP.

 

You're gonna need to elaborate, because there's still no connection between the two.

 

I believe you stated that the Cubs will not need Lee, but rather an OBP stud.

 

Like UK pointed out, that's not what I said, and how does that relate to Choi?

Choi is all about OBP.

1) That is false

2) It is trolling