7/16 Cubs (Marshall) vs Mets (El Duque) 5 pm ESPN

[Andy]

Wow, 32 pages. Impressive. I wouldn't have expected a game thread to get up that high at this point in the season without at least a semi-super natural occurrence.

 

Bart: Well, can't you see that's the last act of a desperate man?

Howard Johnson: We don't care if it's the first act of Henry V, we're leaving!

I think giving up 2 GS's and 11 runs in one inning on national TV followed by a fan revolt would qualify as semi-supernatural...if not unexpected.

[Friendly Confines]

Hey guys, I was at the game in the left field bleachers and after the trash was throw on the field, we started a "FIRE DUSTY" chant that was loud and clear.....I could see Aramis turning around and staring into the stands.

[soccer10k]

Hey guys, I was at the game in the left field bleachers and after the trash was throw on the field, we started a "FIRE DUSTY" chant that was loud and clear.....I could see Aramis turning around and staring into the stands.

 

Awesome.

[Flames24Rulz]

Hey guys, I was at the game in the left field bleachers and after the trash was throw on the field, we started a "FIRE DUSTY" chant that was loud and clear.....I could see Aramis turning around and staring into the stands.

 

More people like this, plz.

[Drew Doughty]

Hey guys, I was at the game in the left field bleachers and after the trash was throw on the field, we started a "FIRE DUSTY" chant that was loud and clear.....I could see Aramis turning around and staring into the stands.

 

Was he looking into the stands or ruining our season by not hustling down the first base line?

 

Anyways, we need more stories like this.

[Jon]

Wow, 32 pages. Impressive. I wouldn't have expected a game thread to get up that high at this point in the season without at least a semi-super natural occurrence.

 

Bart: Well, can't you see that's the last act of a desperate man?

Howard Johnson: We don't care if it's the first act of Henry V, we're leaving!

I think giving up 2 GS's and 11 runs in one inning on national TV followed by a fan revolt would qualify as semi-supernatural...if not unexpected.

A couple more weeks and you'll just think of that as a Sunday.

 

Now a long thread on Derrek Lee's Frosted Flakes commercial...I could see that.

[Omar]

I'm posting from half way around the world... Lahore, Pakistan. I am saddened to say I was very upset when I heard the news of the 2 grand slams on (International?/English?) Sportscenter.

 

Anyhow, welcome back, and I will be back in Chi-town in 21ish days.

[Blueheart05]

 

He does not have enough of an impact bat to outweigh what he lacks on defense. He's actually much more of a liability now that they have cut the grass in the infield.

 

Incorrect. He has been good for 2 wins above what would be expected of a replacement player, and WARP takes defense into account.

 

This team is horrible, and has been for the last 2 years, therefore, this argument is invalid. Walker is not a quality all around second basemen and his position on the field requires more defense than he's capable of providing.

 

In 2003, he batted .283 for Boston in the regular season and .349 in the playoffs (.313 in the ALDS and .370 in the ALCS) yet they let him leave in favor of Pokey Reese because Walker ended that year as the worst 2B in the ML at turning the DP.

While Reese wasn't the best available player he was more versatile (played both SS and 2B) and more defensively sound than Walker.

 

This proves that even an offense-oriented team, like Boston, realized that they were better off having a more defensive player at 2B than someone like Todd Walker. They didn't need a guy like Walker and if the Cubs are going to improve they need to find someone at 2B who will field accurately and consistently (you can hide someone who's defensively challenged at 1B or LF but not 2B). As I mentioned earlier, he's actually more of a liability now that the team has cut the infield grass.

[Mizzou]

Blueheart, have you met oldcubsfan?

[mul21]

 

He does not have enough of an impact bat to outweigh what he lacks on defense. He's actually much more of a liability now that they have cut the grass in the infield.

 

Incorrect. He has been good for 2 wins above what would be expected of a replacement player, and WARP takes defense into account.

 

This team is horrible, and has been for the last 2 years, therefore, this argument is invalid. Walker is not a quality all around second basemen and his position on the field requires more defense than he's capable of providing.

 

In 2003, he batted .283 for Boston in the regular season and .349 in the playoffs (.313 in the ALDS and .370 in the ALCS) yet they let him leave in favor of Pokey Reese because Walker ended that year as the worst 2B in the ML at turning the DP.

While Reese wasn't the best available player he was more versatile (played both SS and 2B) and more defensively sound than Walker.

 

This proves that even an offense-oriented team, like Boston, realized that they were better off having a more defensive player at 2B than someone like Todd Walker. They didn't need a guy like Walker and if the Cubs are going to improve they need to find someone at 2B who will field accurately and consistently (you can hide someone who's defensively challenged at 1B or LF but not 2B). As I mentioned earlier, he's actually more of a liability now that the team has cut the infield grass.

 

See, I think that because Boston is an offense oriented team, they were ABLE to sacrifice offense at 2nd for defense because they had other pieces in place to make up for the offensive deficiency there. The Cubs are so bad on offense right now that they can't afford to make that kind of a sacrifice. The need is determined by what surrounds the player (i.e. the argument that Murton is a perfectly acceptable guy for LF as long as there is a bopper in RF and/or CF).

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

He does not have enough of an impact bat to outweigh what he lacks on defense. He's actually much more of a liability now that they have cut the grass in the infield.

 

Incorrect. He has been good for 2 wins above what would be expected of a replacement player, and WARP takes defense into account.

 

This team is horrible, and has been for the last 2 years, therefore, this argument is invalid. Walker is not a quality all around second basemen and his position on the field requires more defense than he's capable of providing.

 

In 2003, he batted .283 for Boston in the regular season and .349 in the playoffs (.313 in the ALDS and .370 in the ALCS) yet they let him leave in favor of Pokey Reese because Walker ended that year as the worst 2B in the ML at turning the DP.

While Reese wasn't the best available player he was more versatile (played both SS and 2B) and more defensively sound than Walker.

 

This proves that even an offense-oriented team, like Boston, realized that they were better off having a more defensive player at 2B than someone like Todd Walker. They didn't need a guy like Walker and if the Cubs are going to improve they need to find someone at 2B who will field accurately and consistently (you can hide someone who's defensively challenged at 1B or LF but not 2B). As I mentioned earlier, he's actually more of a liability now that the team has cut the infield grass.

 

I disagree completely.

 

And furthermore, if cutting the grass exposes your second baseman, then was that really a smart move?

[YearofDaCubs]

What a debacle this is. Who cares about Walker, seriously it is to the point that it's easy to say who cares about the Cubs. The Cubs are so bad right now and Hendry and Baker have done so much damage that I couldn't even tell you when they will be competitive again. The Cubs give me so much grief it's nto even funny.

[Blueheart05]

 

He does not have enough of an impact bat to outweigh what he lacks on defense. He's actually much more of a liability now that they have cut the grass in the infield.

 

Incorrect. He has been good for 2 wins above what would be expected of a replacement player, and WARP takes defense into account.

 

This team is horrible, and has been for the last 2 years, therefore, this argument is invalid. Walker is not a quality all around second basemen and his position on the field requires more defense than he's capable of providing.

 

In 2003, he batted .283 for Boston in the regular season and .349 in the playoffs (.313 in the ALDS and .370 in the ALCS) yet they let him leave in favor of Pokey Reese because Walker ended that year as the worst 2B in the ML at turning the DP.

While Reese wasn't the best available player he was more versatile (played both SS and 2B) and more defensively sound than Walker.

 

This proves that even an offense-oriented team, like Boston, realized that they were better off having a more defensive player at 2B than someone like Todd Walker. They didn't need a guy like Walker and if the Cubs are going to improve they need to find someone at 2B who will field accurately and consistently (you can hide someone who's defensively challenged at 1B or LF but not 2B). As I mentioned earlier, he's actually more of a liability now that the team has cut the infield grass.

 

 

 

And furthermore, if cutting the grass exposes your second baseman, then was that really a smart move?

 

That's not a question for me to answer. I think it's obvious that they did it with Pierre in mind (whether it has directly aided him is up for debate but it has made the infield faster).

[Blueheart05]

 

He does not have enough of an impact bat to outweigh what he lacks on defense. He's actually much more of a liability now that they have cut the grass in the infield.

 

Incorrect. He has been good for 2 wins above what would be expected of a replacement player, and WARP takes defense into account.

 

This team is horrible, and has been for the last 2 years, therefore, this argument is invalid. Walker is not a quality all around second basemen and his position on the field requires more defense than he's capable of providing.

 

In 2003, he batted .283 for Boston in the regular season and .349 in the playoffs (.313 in the ALDS and .370 in the ALCS) yet they let him leave in favor of Pokey Reese because Walker ended that year as the worst 2B in the ML at turning the DP.

While Reese wasn't the best available player he was more versatile (played both SS and 2B) and more defensively sound than Walker.

 

This proves that even an offense-oriented team, like Boston, realized that they were better off having a more defensive player at 2B than someone like Todd Walker. They didn't need a guy like Walker and if the Cubs are going to improve they need to find someone at 2B who will field accurately and consistently (you can hide someone who's defensively challenged at 1B or LF but not 2B). As I mentioned earlier, he's actually more of a liability now that the team has cut the infield grass.

 

See, I think that because Boston is an offense oriented team, they were ABLE to sacrifice offense at 2nd for defense because they had other pieces in place to make up for the offensive deficiency there. The Cubs are so bad on offense right now that they can't afford to make that kind of a sacrifice. The need is determined by what surrounds the player (i.e. the argument that Murton is a perfectly acceptable guy for LF as long as there is a bopper in RF and/or CF).

 

 

The Cubs aren't going anywhere so as long as they are in a position to rebuild parts of their team (offensively and defensively), it would behoove them to make infield defense (specifically up the middle) more of a priority.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

it would behoove them to make infield defense (specifically up the middle) more of a priority.

 

No

[Blueheart05]

it would behoove them to make infield defense (specifically up the middle) more of a priority.

 

No

 

The one word response is always good.

[oldcubsfan]

it would behoove them to make infield defense (specifically up the middle) more of a priority.

 

No

 

The one word response is always good.

 

You seem to understand that baseball is more than one statistic.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

it would behoove them to make infield defense (specifically up the middle) more of a priority.

 

No

 

Strong defensively up the middle and bashers in the corners.

 

A strong glove guy does not mean he has to be an orphan from OBP or OPS.

 

Move Jones to center and find a basher for right and Murton becomes an OPS compliment guy for the two hole and or 7/8 slot. Murtons approach is very good for a two hole hitter if you can keep the people who want him pulling everything away from him.

 

While Jones isnt a gold glover in center I dont think it is any worse than with Pierre where anything hit into the gaps and CF automaticly allows the runner at first to go to 3rd.

[treebird]

it would behoove them to make infield defense (specifically up the middle) more of a priority.

 

No

 

The one word response is always good.

 

will you go back and explain the thing about how stats like warp dont count since the cubs haven't been good? i dont follow that all.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

it would behoove them to make infield defense (specifically up the middle) more of a priority.

 

No

 

The one word response is always good.

 

Offense makes up more of the game than defense. Considering the makeup of the Cubs, with a lack of offense at SS, CF, and at least one corner OF spot, it would definitely make more sense to get an offensive minded 2B, even if they are not gold-glove caliber. Why would it behoove them to make infield defense more of a priority? That sounds nice to say, but what's the justification?

 

You seem to understand that baseball is more than one statistic.

 

Well now you're not even trying anymore.

[baseball7897]

No baseball team has won a world series without a solid defense.

[Drew Doughty]

No baseball team has won a world series without a solid defense.

 

That's probably not true--or even close--but I'm way too lazy to actually look it up.

[Andy]

No baseball team has won a world series without a solid defense.

 

That's probably not true--or even close--but I'm way too lazy to actually look it up.

Boston 2004 had Cabrera and Mientkewicz but everyone else was average or worse defensively

[baseball7897]

No baseball team has won a world series without a solid defense.

 

That's probably not true--or even close--but I'm way too lazy to actually look it up.

Boston 2004 had Cabrera and Mientkewicz but everyone else was average or worse defensively

 

Bill Mueller was solid at 3b, Trot Nixon was solid in RF, Varitek solid behind the plate, Damon was average in CF. So that was a pretty solid defense.

[goonys evil twin]

No baseball team has won a world series without a solid defense.

 

That's probably not true--or even close--but I'm way too lazy to actually look it up.

Boston 2004 had Cabrera and Mientkewicz but everyone else was average or worse defensively

 

Bill Mueller was solid at 3b, Trot Nixon was solid in RF, Varitek solid behind the plate, Damon was average in CF. So that was a pretty solid defense.

 

I've heard nothing about Trot Nixon being solid, unless by solid you just mean average at best, which doesn't really say much for the claim that nobody has won without a solid defense.