What's the Difference Between Ozzie Guillen and...

[soccer10k]

John Rocker? Honestly? Both made some extremely offensive comments in a public forum. Rocker gets absolutely lambasted and destroyed in the media after his comments. Rocker had stories run about him every single time he went to New York to play. Ozzie makes his comments last fall and nobody talks about it. I don't even remember it. There isn't any difference between what they both said. Ozzie gets let off the hook because English isn't his first language and that's crap.

 

Note: If the mods want to combine this with the other thread, that's fine. I figured I went off on a bit of a tangent so I made a new thread.

[ltb]

there isn't a difference.

 

but ozzie won a world series, and he's a "breath of fresh air" to baseball, so they let it slide with him. it's a joke.

[CubsBullsBears]

Can someone please duct tape Ozzie's mouth??

[Andy]

Rocker was a white guy going off on other races, Guillen is a nonwhite guy spewing nonsensical crap in every direction (although he seemed to make the implication that Venezuelans were somehow inferior in his Magglio rant).

 

I'm not saying it's racism, but if a white guy does what Ozzie does, he's a bigot. If Ozzie does it, it's "colorful".

[rocket]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And we know Ozzie doesn't fear gays because he goes to WNBA games.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

Let's say he called someone in the media, say Dan Jiggets, a derragatory term for a black man (the same one Rocker used). What would the media's reaction be to this?

 

To me they're all the same. Bigoted hateful words aren't any better than any other. Dispicable.

[rocket]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

Let's say he called someone in the media, say Dan Jiggets, a derragatory term for a black man (the same one Rocker used). What would the media's reaction be to this?

 

To me they're all the same. Bigoted hateful words aren't any better than any other. Dispicable.

 

that word can only be used in a racist way. you wouldn't call a white guy that out of anger and hatred for the guy. calling someone a [expletive] (and i can't stress enough how much of an idiot ozzie is for using that word, and he deserves to be shamed in the media for it) does not necessarily mean "i hate you because you are homosexual".

 

i'm just answering the question posed in the subject. rocker's comments were made out of genuine hatred for the groups he was lambasting. ozzie's comments were made because he's a moron.

[SouthSideRyan]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

Let's say he called someone in the media, say Dan Jiggets, a derragatory term for a black man (the same one Rocker used). What would the media's reaction be to this?

 

To me they're all the same. Bigoted hateful words aren't any better than any other. Dispicable.

 

that word can only be used in a racist way. you wouldn't call a white guy that out of anger and hatred for the guy. calling someone a [expletive] (and i can't stress enough how much of an idiot ozzie is for using that word, and he deserves to be shamed in the media for it) does not necessarily mean "i hate you because you are homosexual".

 

i'm just answering the question posed in the subject. rocker's comments were made out of genuine hatred for the groups he was lambasting. ozzie's comments were made because he's a moron.

 

What else can calling someone a [expletive] mean?

What's the difference between Ozzie Guillen and John Rocker?

John Rocker was a good baseball player

[louisvillecub]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

Let's say he called someone in the media, say Dan Jiggets, a derragatory term for a black man (the same one Rocker used). What would the media's reaction be to this?

 

To me they're all the same. Bigoted hateful words aren't any better than any other. Dispicable.

 

that word can only be used in a racist way. you wouldn't call a white guy that out of anger and hatred for the guy. calling someone a [expletive] (and i can't stress enough how much of an idiot ozzie is for using that word, and he deserves to be shamed in the media for it) does not necessarily mean "i hate you because you are homosexual".

 

i'm just answering the question posed in the subject. rocker's comments were made out of genuine hatred for the groups he was lambasting. ozzie's comments were made because he's a moron.

 

I heartily disagree. And believe me, I know. When I'm called a [expletive], there is NOTHING but hate behind that. When my male friends are called [expletive], there is nothing but hate behind that too. I can't see any instance where words like that don't have hate and ignorance in their intent.

[goonys evil twin]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

Let's say he called someone in the media, say Dan Jiggets, a derragatory term for a black man (the same one Rocker used). What would the media's reaction be to this?

 

To me they're all the same. Bigoted hateful words aren't any better than any other. Dispicable.

 

that word can only be used in a racist way. you wouldn't call a white guy that out of anger and hatred for the guy. calling someone a [expletive] (and i can't stress enough how much of an idiot ozzie is for using that word, and he deserves to be shamed in the media for it) does not necessarily mean "i hate you because you are homosexual".

 

i'm just answering the question posed in the subject. rocker's comments were made out of genuine hatred for the groups he was lambasting. ozzie's comments were made because he's a moron.

 

That's absolutely ridiculuous. You're just making stuff up now.

[Sammy Sofa]

*****OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE AHEAD!!!!********

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No he's not.

 

I think Ozzie's choice of words is appalling...but like it or not, "[expletive]" and "[expletive]" are not on the same levels. There are, unfortunately, plenty of people that view "[expletive]" as "just another insult." Personally, I think it's an ugly little word that nobody ever has to use, but if you look at both slurs on a sociological level, one is definitely "worse." It's vague, but there seems to be something to it. If you say "[expletive]," that's pure hate. If you say "[expletive]," that CAN just be ignorance. Again, neither is "right," but one is definitely a LOT worse. It seems an absurd thing to point out, but it's there.

 

Look at it this way....nobody in this thread thought to censor "[expletive]" at all, yet "[expletive]" has not been expressly said up until now, even when discussed. How can you compare the two as equal if one is not even dared to be typed out?

 

I apologize for the language, but it is to prove a point. If it should be edited out, fine...but will both slurs be edited out? Wouldn't that be the case if both are "equally" hateful?

 

Man, what a lame thing to have to debate. People are awful sometimes.

[Andy]

What's the difference between Ozzie Guillen and John Rocker?

John Rocker was a good baseball player

Touche

[goonys evil twin]

How can you compare the two as equal if one is not even dared to be typed out?

 

I hear the n word used far more frequently than the f word.

[Flames24Rulz]

Rocker was a white guy going off on other races, Guillen is a nonwhite guy spewing nonsensical crap in every direction (although he seemed to make the implication that Venezuelans were somehow inferior in his Magglio rant).

 

I'm not saying it's racism, but if a white guy does what Ozzie does, he's a bigot. If Ozzie does it, it's "colorful".

 

The same thing what Baker said 2 years ago with the, "black guys play better in the heat because they are used to it." If a white guy says that, he's facing criticism from everyone across the nation, Jesse Jackson would have been involved, and he's probably fired. Baker basically got away with it because of the fact that he is African-American.

 

It's amazing how guys get away with this just because they are a different race and somehow given a free pass because Ozzie grew up in Venezuela and "doesn't know what a word means." He's been in the US for 25 years. He knows what that word meant.

Edited June 22, 2006 by Flames24Rulz

[Sammy Sofa]

How can you compare the two as equal if one is not even dared to be typed out?

 

I hear the n word used far more frequently than the f word.

 

Out of curiosity, where do you live? And who is saying it? Because not to trot out the hoary old cliche, but there's the "-er" version and the "-a" version. Again, wishful thinking aside, they ARE different, and almost always have completely different implications, whether said by someone black, white or otherwise. I live down south, just outside of DC, and I hear the "f word" infinitely more than the "-er" version of the "n word."

 

And once more, I'm not justifying the use of ANY of these words, just trying to point out there is a difference in their severity, for a number of reasons.

 

And Ozzie would still be an idiot no matter which one he said. Same with Rocker. I think Ozzie is getting off the hook moreso than Rocker ever could because Marriotti is such an ass.

[Sammy Sofa]

Rocker was a white guy going off on other races, Guillen is a nonwhite guy spewing nonsensical crap in every direction (although he seemed to make the implication that Venezuelans were somehow inferior in his Magglio rant).

 

I'm not saying it's racism, but if a white guy does what Ozzie does, he's a bigot. If Ozzie does it, it's "colorful".

 

The same thing what Baker said 2 years ago with the, "black guys play better in the heat because they are used to it." If a white guy says that, he's fired and facing criticism from everyone across the nation, Jesse Jackson would have been involved, and he's probably fired. Baker basically got away with it because of the fact that he is African-American.

 

There's something far more shocking and horrifying in that statement...how moronic Dusty is when it comes to managing a baseball team. I don't care what color the player is...trying to figure out who plays based on the heat is asinine.

[Careless]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

[Balsa]

What else can calling someone a [expletive] mean?

Calling someone a cigarette?

[Blueheart05]

What else can calling someone a [expletive] mean?

Calling someone a cigarette?

 

 

Not in the US.

[Big Fergie J]

Ozzie Guillen will never change and will never get "it" because he doesn't care what "it" is.

 

He could be forced to go to "sensitivity" counselling and read the Bible of Political Correctness and it still wouldn't matter. He just doesn't care. If he were suspended by MLB for his conduct (highly unlikely) he would just view himself as a martyr.

 

To steal from SNL, baseball has been bery, bery good to Ozzie. He goes home to Venezuela and thumbs his nose at The PC American media and is a hero because of his self-proclaimed macho-ism.

 

He is not a leader of men he is simply a manager of a baseball team. Somewhere right now he is laughing his a** off about all of this.

[South Side]

There is no excuse for what Ozzie said. It was pure stupidity.

 

But I do recall lots of baseball boards (including this one) posting the picture of Ozzie and his son kissing on the lips, with lots of commentary about how funny it was (also degrading to homosexuals).

 

I don't recall anyone comparing those posters to John Rocker. And I'll bet a high percentage of those ripping on Guillen have used the exact same slur about someone, sometime in the past.

[RynoRules]

There is no excuse for what Ozzie said. It was pure stupidity.

 

But I do recall lots of baseball boards (including this one) posting the picture of Ozzie and his son kissing on the lips, with lots of commentary about how funny it was (also degrading to homosexuals).

 

I don't recall anyone comparing those posters to John Rocker. And I'll bet a high percentage of those ripping on Guillen have used the exact same slur about someone, sometime in the past.

 

That's a fair point. Several members of this bd. have difficulty finding a way to express their dislike of a certain Cards player without referrng to rumors about his sexuality.

[snoodmonger]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

 

Why do you assume he doesn't hate and fear gays? Because he says so? If you use that word as an insult, it probably means you respect gays less on some level. Try and rationalize it, but the mere use of the word as an insult is homophobic.