What's the Difference Between Ozzie Guillen and...

[rocket]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

Let's say he called someone in the media, say Dan Jiggets, a derragatory term for a black man (the same one Rocker used). What would the media's reaction be to this?

 

To me they're all the same. Bigoted hateful words aren't any better than any other. Dispicable.

 

that word can only be used in a racist way. you wouldn't call a white guy that out of anger and hatred for the guy. calling someone a [expletive] (and i can't stress enough how much of an idiot ozzie is for using that word, and he deserves to be shamed in the media for it) does not necessarily mean "i hate you because you are homosexual".

 

i'm just answering the question posed in the subject. rocker's comments were made out of genuine hatred for the groups he was lambasting. ozzie's comments were made because he's a moron.

 

That's absolutely ridiculuous. You're just making stuff up now.

 

i guess things are different where you're from. if i ever hear that word, it's used as a horrible slur against a black man. i never hear it used casually as an insult to some non-black person.

[rocket]

 

It's a very small difference. Ozzie is using a term for gays as an insult. He is deriding gays whether he is talking about one specifically or using a title referring to them as something to tear down somebody else.

 

I agree, which is why I've stated Ozzie is a moron for using that word.

[jjgman21]

 

a guy will call another guy a [expletive] even if he's 100% sure he's straight. to some dumb guys, it's the same as calling a guy a "wuss" or a "[expletive]". and i agree, it's an awful, horrible thing to say, and it's inexcusable.

 

exactly. people can argue all they want that there is only one meaning of the word and everybody's minds operate the same way, but any linguist would tell you that is not true whatsoever. you can say Ozzie or my cousin meant it as a slur against homosexuals, but nobody knows how Ozzie's or my cousin's mind works. language is very imprecise, and there are alot of people who lack the ability to articulate with the proper words.

 

as for jam's comments, I have heard and know of several homosexuals that call each other or other homosexuals "[expletive]" and "queer" all the time. do they have no harmful intentions when using that word? the answer is obvious, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, just like the rest of us. the term is much more flimsy and has alot more meanings and connotations than most racial slurs. one of those meanings is a catchall phrase used by unarticulate people to have no more signicance that calling someone a "jerk."

 

the best analogy I can think of is using the word "gyp" when somebody rips you off. that's the word you know and came to use, not even realizing it is a derrogatory phrase about gypsies. there is nothing in peoples heart or mind that means it as an insult against a group of people. it's just the word that they use in that situation.

[K-Town]

 

a guy will call another guy a [expletive] even if he's 100% sure he's straight. to some dumb guys, it's the same as calling a guy a "wuss" or a "[expletive]". and i agree, it's an awful, horrible thing to say, and it's inexcusable.

 

exactly. people can argue all they want that there is only one meaning of the word and everybody's minds operate the same way, but any linguist would tell you that is not true whatsoever. you can say Ozzie or my cousin meant it as a slur against homosexuals, but nobody knows how Ozzie's or my cousin's mind works. language is very imprecise, and there are alot of people who lack the ability to articulate with the proper words.

 

as for jam's comments, I have heard and know of several homosexuals that call each other or other homosexuals "[expletive]" and "queer" all the time. do they have no harmful intentions when using that word? the answer is obvious, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, just like the rest of us. the term is much more flimsy and has alot more meanings and connotations than most racial slurs. one of those meanings is a catchall phrase used by unarticulate people to have no more signicance that calling someone a "jerk."

 

the best analogy I can think of is using the word "gyp" when somebody rips you off. that's the word you know and came to use, not even realizing it is a derrogatory phrase about gypsies. there is nothing in peoples heart or mind that means it as an insult against a group of people. it's just the word that they use in that situation.

 

 

It doesn't matter. Adult professionals don't use a string of expletives that end with the word "[expletive]", when addressing another individual. Your Junior High classmates might, but a professional baseball manager can't do that. It's completely inappropriate, no matter how you try to twist it.

[jam1975]

 

a guy will call another guy a [expletive] even if he's 100% sure he's straight. to some dumb guys, it's the same as calling a guy a "wuss" or a "[expletive]". and i agree, it's an awful, horrible thing to say, and it's inexcusable.

 

exactly. people can argue all they want that there is only one meaning of the word and everybody's minds operate the same way, but any linguist would tell you that is not true whatsoever. you can say Ozzie or my cousin meant it as a slur against homosexuals, but nobody knows how Ozzie's or my cousin's mind works. language is very imprecise, and there are alot of people who lack the ability to articulate with the proper words.

 

as for jam's comments, I have heard and know of several homosexuals that call each other or other homosexuals "[expletive]" and "queer" all the time. do they have no harmful intentions when using that word? the answer is obvious, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, just like the rest of us. the term is much more flimsy and has alot more meanings and connotations than most racial slurs. one of those meanings is a catchall phrase used by unarticulate people to have no more signicance that calling someone a "jerk."

 

the best analogy I can think of is using the word "gyp" when somebody rips you off. that's the word you know and came to use, not even realizing it is a derrogatory phrase about gypsies. there is nothing in peoples heart or mind that means it as an insult against a group of people. it's just the word that they use in that situation.

 

In one of the examples you used, homosexuals are taking ownership of the word and lessening the hateful impact of the word to their own group, much in the same way blacks have taken ownership of the word "[expletive]". Does that make it right? I can't say. There's been long debate about whether those slurs are too hateful on any level to ever be used as anything less than offensive.

 

The catchall meaning for "[expletive]" is not inarticulate it's ignorant. There's no way people aren't familar with other insults to use to demean someone's masculinity such as "wimp". They use "[expletive]" because it has a much more demeaning connotation due to it's association with homosexuals and the thought that being gay makes you in some way less of a man. Those people are ignorant and there is a level of hate in their use of the word. I would imagine your cousin wouldn't go into a gay bar and say to anyone "[expletive]" with the intention that it's just another regular old insult that he uses. And if he was so ignorant, I would imagine he would be informed pretty quickly how offensive he was.

 

The use of "gyp" is offensive too. It's a slur, as well. Just because the gypsies aren't as numerous in these parts doesn't make it any less so. People use the term "jew" as verb to mean talk someone down in price, are they not being offensive in that instance?

[SouthSideRyan]

Jam summed up my points in his earlier post far better than I was able to.

 

And I'm with goony, I hear "[expletive]" more often than "[expletive]", and have heard it many times used to describe a non-black person.

[Blueheart05]

Jam summed up my points in his earlier post far better than I was able to.

 

And I'm with goony, I hear "[expletive]" more often than "[expletive]", and have heard it many times used to describe a non-black person.

 

Hmmm, this is interesting. I rarely hear anyone (who's not a rapper) say "[expletive]" or "nigga" and I'm black. I don't use either word (I also don't use the word "[expletive]" but I've heard others use it...) I hear a lot of teenagers say "that's gay." Which seems silly to me.

[Blueheart05]

 

a guy will call another guy a [expletive] even if he's 100% sure he's straight. to some dumb guys, it's the same as calling a guy a "wuss" or a "[expletive]". and i agree, it's an awful, horrible thing to say, and it's inexcusable.

 

exactly. people can argue all they want that there is only one meaning of the word and everybody's minds operate the same way, but any linguist would tell you that is not true whatsoever. you can say Ozzie or my cousin meant it as a slur against homosexuals, but nobody knows how Ozzie's or my cousin's mind works. language is very imprecise, and there are alot of people who lack the ability to articulate with the proper words.

 

as for jam's comments, I have heard and know of several homosexuals that call each other or other homosexuals "[expletive]" and "queer" all the time. do they have no harmful intentions when using that word? the answer is obvious, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, just like the rest of us. the term is much more flimsy and has alot more meanings and connotations than most racial slurs. one of those meanings is a catchall phrase used by unarticulate people to have no more signicance that calling someone a "jerk."

 

the best analogy I can think of is using the word "gyp" when somebody rips you off. that's the word you know and came to use, not even realizing it is a derrogatory phrase about gypsies. there is nothing in peoples heart or mind that means it as an insult against a group of people. it's just the word that they use in that situation.

 

In one of the examples you used, homosexuals are taking ownership of the word and lessening the hateful impact of the word to their own group, much in the same way blacks have taken ownership of the word "[expletive]". Does that make it right? I can't say. There's been long debate about whether those slurs are too hateful on any level to ever be used as anything less than offensive.

 

The catchall meaning for "[expletive]" is not inarticulate it's ignorant. There's no way people aren't familar with other insults to use to demean someone's masculinity such as "wimp". They use "[expletive]" because it has a much more demeaning connotation due to it's association with homosexuals and the thought that being gay makes you in some way less of a man. Those people are ignorant and there is a level of hate in their use of the word. I would imagine your cousin wouldn't go into a gay bar and say to anyone "[expletive]" with the intention that it's just another regular old insult that he uses. And if he was so ignorant, I would imagine he would be informed pretty quickly how offensive he was.

 

The use of "gyp" is offensive too. It's a slur, as well. Just because the gypsies aren't as numerous in these parts doesn't make it any less so. People use the term "jew" as verb to mean talk someone down in price, are they not being offensive in that instance?

 

You're right. Some people like to say that having to worry about those things is "PC" but I think it's just common courtesy. I'll admit that I used to use "Jew" as a verb without giving much thought to the underlined racist connotation (that is until I dated a guy who was Jewish and figured out how stupid that was...) In fact, his family owns a business on Roosevelt Rd in Chicago (also known affectionately as "Jew Town"). I was in the store once when a patron asked my, ex, boyfriend's father: "you're not trying to Jew me down right?" The sad part is, I don't think the person knew he was Jewish but he apparently thought it was an OK thing to say...

[SouthSideRyan]

To Blueheart:

 

I would guess with regards to "[expletive]" that your race may play a part in why you don't hear it. People are ignorant, but they're not stupid, and know that they can often get away with being morons and saying it around other non-blacks, but there's no way it'll fly if the person you're always insulting is actually there to hear it.