The Corey Patterson Thread

[YearofDaCubs]

Isn't this more evidence that maybe we should be getting rid of the coaching staff instead of some of these players?

The entire coaching staff needs to go as well as some of our scrub players.

[CubfaninCA]

corey's biggest problem was psychological. he needed dr. phil or phil jackson.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

corey's biggest problem was psychological. he needed dr. phil or phil jackson.

 

So that is why we brought in Phil Nevin. Ahhhhh! Too bad we forgot Corey is now with Baltimore.

[Jon]

I still don't know what evidence fans have/can have for calling his problems psychological.

 

 

Elia speaks:

Fred Mitchell[/url]"]"Crowley made a few adjustments with his swing," said Elia, who turns 69 in July. "The swings are a little more compact. You know, the home runs are a bonus. We're just looking for him to be a line-drive hitter. Not a slap hitter, but a solid line-drive hitter. He's unbelievable on the bases. He's our little Rickey Henderson." Patterson is 18-for-19 in stolen bases."

[MustangMike]

corey's biggest problem was psychological. he needed dr. phil or phil jackson.

 

or Lee Elia as it turned out

[UBlink]

 

I'm not certain the coaches had a lot to do with him. They may not have helped much, but I don't think they were the sole reason for his disappointing time in Chicago. Corey was always an overaggressive hitter with poor discipline--- that's the Cubs philosophy even in the minor league system, so for him, being in the Cub organization should have been heaven. I still think he was rushed through the system, though.

 

Guess which team leads the Florida State League in IsoD? By a healthy margin?

[rawaction]

 

I'm not certain the coaches had a lot to do with him. They may not have helped much, but I don't think they were the sole reason for his disappointing time in Chicago. Corey was always an overaggressive hitter with poor discipline--- that's the Cubs philosophy even in the minor league system, so for him, being in the Cub organization should have been heaven. I still think he was rushed through the system, though.

 

Guess which team leads the Florida State League in IsoD? By a healthy margin?

 

That's more of a function of the players than the organizational philosophy. The DCubs have a bunch of players at or above average age (which I believe is around 23). All but, Harvey, Spears and Rick are over 23 on the offensive side of the roster.

[UBlink]

 

I'm not certain the coaches had a lot to do with him. They may not have helped much, but I don't think they were the sole reason for his disappointing time in Chicago. Corey was always an overaggressive hitter with poor discipline--- that's the Cubs philosophy even in the minor league system, so for him, being in the Cub organization should have been heaven. I still think he was rushed through the system, though.

 

Guess which team leads the Florida State League in IsoD? By a healthy margin?

 

That's more of a function of the players than the organizational philosophy. The DCubs have a bunch of players at or above average age (which I believe is around 23). All but, Harvey, Spears and Rick are over 23 on the offensive side of the roster.

 

That's a good point, but wouldn't that also mean they have been in the organization longer and had more time to be influenced by the Cubs' "philosophy"?

[Sammy Sofa]

corey's biggest problem was psychological. he needed dr. phil or phil jackson.

 

Or maybe he just needed to be coached by people who know what the hell they're doing at least every once in a while. Corey himself said he thought he should be batting lower in the lineup, specifically as a #6 hitter. Well, the Orioles are doing just that, and letting him work there. And look at the results. Wow, what a radical approach...nobody could have EVER thought of that! Corey definitely had some ego "issues," but if what he's doing now with the O's continues, it should prove he was VERY far from being uncoachable, or terrible or a headcase, or whatever other excuses want to be made. His success should be one of the most scathing indictments of how bad the Cubs' management and coaching staffs are right now.

[CUBZ99]

 

Or maybe he just needed to be coached by people who know what the hell they're doing at least every once in a while. Corey himself said he thought he should be batting lower in the lineup, specifically as a #6 hitter. Well, the Orioles are doing just that, and letting him work there. And look at the results. Wow, what a radical approach...nobody could have EVER thought of that! Corey definitely had some ego "issues," but if what he's doing now with the O's continues, it should prove he was VERY far from being uncoachable, or terrible or a headcase, or whatever other excuses want to be made. His success should be one of the most scathing indictments of how bad the Cubs' management and coaching staffs are right now.

 

If you are going to use Corey as the poster child for horrible coaching and managing, you also need to point out the success stories that the Cubs coaches and managers have had. Just to name a few players who have developed into better players since joining the Cubs in the past few years:

 

Barrett

Lee

Grudz

Dempster

Borowski

ARam

Murton

 

Could it be that some players simply play better in a different atmosphere? Was Dusty responsible for turning Barrett into one of the best offensive catchers in the game today? Was Dusty/Sarge responsible for DLee's incredible increase in power and average? Was Rothschild responsible for taking Dempster and making him into a good closer?

 

I highly doubt that Baker had anything to do with Corey's lack of success. Corey was sucking equally before Baker came and after Baker came. There was a reason that hardly any teams were trying to trade for Corey. I'm glad that he is having success right now and hope that it continues, but to blame the coaching staff for his suckiness is quite a stretch.

[Yeti]

corey's biggest problem was psychological. he needed dr. phil or phil jackson.

 

Or maybe he just needed to be coached by people who know what the hell they're doing at least every once in a while. Corey himself said he thought he should be batting lower in the lineup, specifically as a #6 hitter. Well, the Orioles are doing just that, and letting him work there. And look at the results. Wow, what a radical approach...nobody could have EVER thought of that! Corey definitely had some ego "issues," but if what he's doing now with the O's continues, it should prove he was VERY far from being uncoachable, or terrible or a headcase, or whatever other excuses want to be made. His success should be one of the most scathing indictments of how bad the Cubs' management and coaching staffs are right now.

freaking fantastic post!

[Sammy Sofa]

 

Or maybe he just needed to be coached by people who know what the hell they're doing at least every once in a while. Corey himself said he thought he should be batting lower in the lineup, specifically as a #6 hitter. Well, the Orioles are doing just that, and letting him work there. And look at the results. Wow, what a radical approach...nobody could have EVER thought of that! Corey definitely had some ego "issues," but if what he's doing now with the O's continues, it should prove he was VERY far from being uncoachable, or terrible or a headcase, or whatever other excuses want to be made. His success should be one of the most scathing indictments of how bad the Cubs' management and coaching staffs are right now.

 

If you are going to use Corey as the poster child for horrible coaching and managing, you also need to point out the success stories that the Cubs coaches and managers have had. Just to name a few players who have developed into better players since joining the Cubs in the past few years:

 

Barrett

Lee

Grudz

Dempster

Borowski

ARam

Murton

 

Could it be that some players simply play better in a different atmosphere? Was Dusty responsible for turning Barrett into one of the best offensive catchers in the game today? Was Dusty/Sarge responsible for DLee's incredible increase in power and average? Was Rothschild responsible for taking Dempster and making him into a good closer?

 

I highly doubt that Baker had anything to do with Corey's lack of success. Corey was sucking equally before Baker came and after Baker came. There was a reason that hardly any teams were trying to trade for Corey. I'm glad that he is having success right now and hope that it continues, but to blame the coaching staff for his suckiness is quite a stretch.

 

Corey is a massive warning sign as to how the Cubs deal with their rookie players. All the guys you listed, with the exception of Murton and A-Ram, had established careers in the bigs. I'll fully concede that the coaching staff with the Cubs may have helped them adjust to new roles or develop new skills, but I'm just as likely, if not more likely, to believe that most of those improvements came more from the players themselves. Lee studied films of hitters he admired and worked with his trainers to improve his swing. I'd lay money he would have done that no matter where he was at that point in his career. Dusty went out of his way NOT to use Dempster as a closer until it was absolutely necessary. Borowski flamed out spectacuarly due to injury...something that might be a tragic and running theme with Cubs pitching under the current coaching regime. Aramis is proving that unless he has a monster hitter in front of him, he's heartbreakingly average...or worse. Grudz is Grudz...he's decent, but nothing to call home about. And Murton...we are witnessing the tearing down of Murton by these monsters in front of our very eyes. At this point, his biggest asset at the plate is his patience, and the Cubs are telling him he needs to swing at more pitches and be more aggressive. And now he's wailing away at 1st and 2nd pitches he would have never swung at before, and getting nothing done offensively a LOT more.

 

The Cubs' coaching staff is even worse than being bad...they're successfully RUINING players long term, or maybe even for good, if they keep their claws dug into them for too long. They can't all be sent packing too soon for my liking. Until they are, I have NO hope for Pie, Patterson, Guzman, Murton, Cedeno, etc., etc., etc..

[Chris]

I'll give credit to Von Joshua on Murton.

[Sammy Sofa]

Me too. My beef is with the hitting coaches up on the MLB team. Clines, Sarge and Rothschild, with a heaping helping of Dusty to top it off.

[srbin84]

I still don't know what evidence fans have/can have for calling his problems psychological.

 

 

Elia speaks:

Fred Mitchell[/url]"]"Crowley made a few adjustments with his swing," said Elia, who turns 69 in July. "The swings are a little more compact. You know, the home runs are a bonus. We're just looking for him to be a line-drive hitter. Not a slap hitter, but a solid line-drive hitter. He's unbelievable on the bases. He's our little Rickey Henderson." Patterson is 18-for-19 in stolen bases."

 

He was just as good as stealing bases with the Cubs. He didn't get on base very much though. He went through a lot of hitting coaches here, so there is more to it than just different coaching.

[Jon]

I still don't know what evidence fans have/can have for calling his problems psychological.

 

 

Elia speaks:

Fred Mitchell[/url]"]"Crowley made a few adjustments with his swing," said Elia, who turns 69 in July. "The swings are a little more compact. You know, the home runs are a bonus. We're just looking for him to be a line-drive hitter. Not a slap hitter, but a solid line-drive hitter. He's unbelievable on the bases. He's our little Rickey Henderson." Patterson is 18-for-19 in stolen bases."

 

He was just as good as stealing bases with the Cubs. He didn't get on base very much though. He went through a lot of hitting coaches here, so there is more to it than just different coaching.

He primarily worked with Clines in terms of trying to convert his swing to slap the ball around. He worked with others for bunting and fielding, but Clines was his primary hitting coach last season. And before that he was doing a pretty decent job at the plate. I think there's a pretty clear link between the coaching staff and Corey's struggles last year.

 

I'm just glad that Elia knew what the Cubs did wrong (and made a nice little dig at them in the process).

[Mark Priors Calves]

i have and always will hope corey puts together a fantastic season and career.

[CubfaninCA]

corey's biggest problem was psychological. he needed dr. phil or phil jackson.

 

Or maybe he just needed to be coached by people who know what the hell they're doing at least every once in a while. Corey himself said he thought he should be batting lower in the lineup, specifically as a #6 hitter. Well, the Orioles are doing just that, and letting him work there. And look at the results. Wow, what a radical approach...nobody could have EVER thought of that! Corey definitely had some ego "issues," but if what he's doing now with the O's continues, it should prove he was VERY far from being uncoachable, or terrible or a headcase, or whatever other excuses want to be made. His success should be one of the most scathing indictments of how bad the Cubs' management and coaching staffs are right now.

 

corey had plenty of ab's in the 7/8 hole last year. sure some blame should be placed on the cubs coaching, but most the blame falls on corey.

[srbin84]

I still don't know what evidence fans have/can have for calling his problems psychological.

 

 

Elia speaks:

Fred Mitchell[/url]"]"Crowley made a few adjustments with his swing," said Elia, who turns 69 in July. "The swings are a little more compact. You know, the home runs are a bonus. We're just looking for him to be a line-drive hitter. Not a slap hitter, but a solid line-drive hitter. He's unbelievable on the bases. He's our little Rickey Henderson." Patterson is 18-for-19 in stolen bases."

 

He was just as good as stealing bases with the Cubs. He didn't get on base very much though. He went through a lot of hitting coaches here, so there is more to it than just different coaching.

He primarily worked with Clines in terms of trying to convert his swing to slap the ball around. He worked with others for bunting and fielding, but Clines was his primary hitting coach last season. And before that he was doing a pretty decent job at the plate. I think there's a pretty clear link between the coaching staff and Corey's struggles last year.

 

I'm just glad that Elia knew what the Cubs did wrong (and made a nice little dig at them in the process).

 

I was talking about Jeff Pentland and Billy Williams.

[Sammy Sofa]

corey's biggest problem was psychological. he needed dr. phil or phil jackson.

 

Or maybe he just needed to be coached by people who know what the hell they're doing at least every once in a while. Corey himself said he thought he should be batting lower in the lineup, specifically as a #6 hitter. Well, the Orioles are doing just that, and letting him work there. And look at the results. Wow, what a radical approach...nobody could have EVER thought of that! Corey definitely had some ego "issues," but if what he's doing now with the O's continues, it should prove he was VERY far from being uncoachable, or terrible or a headcase, or whatever other excuses want to be made. His success should be one of the most scathing indictments of how bad the Cubs' management and coaching staffs are right now.

 

 

corey had plenty of ab's in the 7/8 hole last year. sure some blame should be placed on the cubs coaching, but most the blame falls on corey.

 

He was yanked around the lineup and expected to change his role on a near weekly basis. The Cubs' plans for him seemed to change with the winds. That kind of inconsistency and blatant misunderstanding of your own farm pick is murder on the game of a younger playing still trying to find his role and skills.

 

It's obvious even the Cubs realized that. Look how much playing time Murton and Cedeno have gotten towards the bottom of the lineup. Most of their switches have been to the two spot. Consistency. Corey was seemingly expected to be everything except the three and four hitters.

 

And I'm not saying he may have not been a difficult player to coach. But those players are going to come around enough that having coaches that can't deal with those situations are a real problem. Look at what it means we might miss out on.

[imb]

1-3 tonight with another run, rbi, a walk and two more stolen bases.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Can we really STOP talking about Corey Patterson? He isn't a Cub, anymore, and he should be out of sight, out of mind. The only Patterson we should talk about is his brother, Eric.

[imb]

Can we really STOP talking about Corey Patterson? He isn't a Cub, anymore, and he should be out of sight, out of mind. The only Patterson we should talk about is his brother, Eric.

 

1-3 tonight with another run, rbi, a walk and two more stolen bases.

[srbin84]

Can we really STOP talking about Corey Patterson? He isn't a Cub, anymore, and he should be out of sight, out of mind. The only Patterson we should talk about is his brother, Eric.

 

Agreed. Nobody likes it when Lofton is brought up.

[Illini Iceman]

corey's biggest problem was psychological. he needed dr. phil or phil jackson.

 

Or maybe he just needed to be coached by people who know what the hell they're doing at least every once in a while. Corey himself said he thought he should be batting lower in the lineup, specifically as a #6 hitter. Well, the Orioles are doing just that, and letting him work there. And look at the results. Wow, what a radical approach...nobody could have EVER thought of that! Corey definitely had some ego "issues," but if what he's doing now with the O's continues, it should prove he was VERY far from being uncoachable, or terrible or a headcase, or whatever other excuses want to be made. His success should be one of the most scathing indictments of how bad the Cubs' management and coaching staffs are right now.

 

 

corey had plenty of ab's in the 7/8 hole last year. sure some blame should be placed on the cubs coaching, but most the blame falls on corey.

 

He was yanked around the lineup and expected to change his role on a near weekly basis. The Cubs' plans for him seemed to change with the winds. That kind of inconsistency and blatant misunderstanding of your own farm pick is murder on the game of a younger playing still trying to find his role and skills.

 

It's obvious even the Cubs realized that. Look how much playing time Murton and Cedeno have gotten towards the bottom of the lineup. Most of their switches have been to the two spot. Consistency. Corey was seemingly expected to be everything except the three and four hitters.

 

And I'm not saying he may have not been a difficult player to coach. But those players are going to come around enough that having coaches that can't deal with those situations are a real problem. Look at what it means we might miss out on.

 

He is hitting .290 with less than 150 AB's. I will hold out judgement until August or September after the "book" gets out on him in the AL. Maybe he will keep it up, but I have a feeling that over the course of the season teams will discover the flaws that we all know still exist in his swing and hitting approach and his numbers will come back down to more closely resemble his career averages.