The Corey Patterson Thread

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Corey needed to get out of Chicago. It is a damned shame that he couldn't do all of this for the Cubs. I am sure he was getting an earful of advice, but a ML player needs to adjust (from what I hear). It is obvious that a change of scenery would work magic for CP, and I am happy for him.

 

His success could quite possibly open eyes as to how horrible our coaching staff is for the Cubs. Just look at the guy we have as a hitting coach. Check his stats out when he played.

 

It is pathetic.

 

I don't think that has anything to do with his ability to instruct or not. Coaches stats as a player are not something to look for when deciding on the quality of instruction he is giving a modern day player.

[TB_11]

Braves center fielder Andruw Jones should have been suspicious. Instead, as Patterson had hoped, Jones took his time getting the ball out of his glove. When he did, Patterson turned his decoy into a dead sprint to third. Jones recovered in time to throw out Patterson...

I fail to see how that wasn't a bone-headed play. If it were Jock doing it everyone here would be calling for his head.

 

I think the point writing about that play was to show that Corey had enough confidence to attempt going to third on a great defensive CF. There were worries about Corey's confidence after the treatment of coaches and the fans in Chicago.

[cubfan1955]

Braves center fielder Andruw Jones should have been suspicious. Instead, as Patterson had hoped, Jones took his time getting the ball out of his glove. When he did, Patterson turned his decoy into a dead sprint to third. Jones recovered in time to throw out Patterson...

I fail to see how that wasn't a bone-headed play. If it were Jock doing it everyone here would be calling for his head.

 

I think the point writing about that play was to show that Corey had enough confidence to attempt going to third on a great defensive CF. There were worries about Corey's confidence after the treatment of coaches and the fans in Chicago.

I think that's a pretty poor example to use when he tries to "decoy" the CF and then gets nailed in the process. :D

[FergieJ31]

"We knew it wasn't going to be an overnight thing. We tried not to change a whole lot of things. Eventually, we got him to bunt a little bit. We said we're not going to take anything away from your game, but we want to add the bunting, keep you out of slumps, keep you mentally up. One night we were fortunate enough for him to lay down a bunt and get a base hit, and from that point on, he became a force."

 

 

My GAWD. They've got the CPatt bunting now too? Oh my God man this entire coaching staff has got to GO. Now!

 

Wow. Just what we needed, more salt in our wounds.

 

After the CPatt trade went down some friends of mine who are Cardinal fans told me CPatt would flourish away from the Cubs - not probably, but would. They said they never saw a more classic example of a guy who needed a change of scenery. I vehemently disagreed ("he seems to be uncoachable", "no plate discipline whatsoever", "waste of natural talent", etc.) And now I'm sort of eating crow.

[Allroy]

I had no doubts that CP would become a stud. Our coaching staff is so horrific, that I'm nervous everytime we sign a good veteran. I have no doubts that we could turn Ichiro into a .250 hitter. How Clines still has a job is beyond me. He must have caught Dusty cheating on his wife or something. Our team as a whole has the worst patience at the plate in the league. Its been that way for some time now. If all the fans can see it, how can someone who really knows the game not see it? What is it going to take? We've found every way to lose that I can think of. You can almost count on this team finding a way to lose. Pierzinski's blast on Saturday was so inevitable, I would have bet my life on it. It was too perfect. 2 outs in the 9th, up by one. One more out is all we need. When we put two on and AJ stepped up, I knew what was going to happen. The worst possible scenerio. Not him. Anybody but him. This team is so horrible. You have to start by getting rid of the coaches. Now.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Welcome!

[srbin84]

Again, the Cubs tried to get CPatt to bunt for base hits, but it just didn't work. They even brougth in Vince Coleman to work with him. Baltimore tried and it worked. That's the difference between Patterson last year and this year.

[Abe Frohman]

Corey needed to get out of Chicago. It is a damned shame that he couldn't do all of this for the Cubs. I am sure he was getting an earful of advice, but a ML player needs to adjust (from what I hear). It is obvious that a change of scenery would work magic for CP, and I am happy for him.

 

His success could quite possibly open eyes as to how horrible our coaching staff is for the Cubs. Just look at the guy we have as a hitting coach. Check his stats out when he played.

 

It is pathetic.

 

I don't think that has anything to do with his ability to instruct or not. Coaches stats as a player are not something to look for when deciding on the quality of instruction he is giving a modern day player.

 

Though you have a solid point, I do as well. Clines has to be judged by the fruit of his labor. The Cub offense is horrific. He is not effective, nor is he making any sort of difference.

 

I hate to be critical, but when you have a payroll of nearly $100 million, you should at least be in the top 75% of the standings. The Cubs could do this poorly with a $15 million payroll.

 

Am I wrong?

[BigbadB]

Patterson could have had a change of scenery without every taking off his jersey.

 

A new coaching staff to match the entirely new front office could have done wonders for Corey.

[Allroy]

Thanks for the welcome guys. It took a while to find this board, but its always good to see other people are as frustrated as I am. I totally agree wtih Abe. Who cares about Cline as a player, look at his track record as a coach. This team has not hit the last two years. They swing at first pitches all the time, strike out way too much, and for the most part can't bunt for crap. That falls on him as hitting coatch. He has made no progress with these players. How does that guy still have a job? If I did that poorly of a job, I wouldn't be employed. Why is he so special? And I'm so sick of all these excuses about injuries and bad breaks. Dusty has to be so sick of repeating himself. He sounds like a broken record. He has obviously lost his effectiveness. He should just walk out. With that much payroll, you should be able to lose half the team and still play .500 ball. This is absolutely disgusting. What is it going to take?

[abuck1220]

Again, the Cubs tried to get CPatt to bunt for base hits, but it just didn't work. They even brougth in Vince Coleman to work with him. Baltimore tried and it worked. That's the difference between Patterson last year and this year.

 

false.

[NewUserName]

I dont think Patterson is ever going to be a "stud" However what he was and is going to be is a good defensive CF with some pop and speed. If he was left at the 6 or 7 spot in the order where he belongs he would probably still be there with the Cubs being effective. The Cubs management however wrongly thought speed was a more important tool from a lead-off man and tried to force Patterson into something that he is not nor will never be. Patterson will never have a lead-off mans obp.

 

I do blame Cub coaching for this but also upper management for never finding a real lead-off man and forcing Dusty to wrongly put Patterson into that role. To me this is just another way to show how imcompitant the whole organization is run

 

EDIT: While looking at CPatts stats I noticed that Latroy is also having a solid year while being used correctly. Notice I didnt say great but solid

Edited July 3, 2006 by NewUserName

[Banedon]

Again, the Cubs tried to get CPatt to bunt for base hits, but it just didn't work. They even brougth in Vince Coleman to work with him. Baltimore tried and it worked. That's the difference between Patterson last year and this year.

 

Vince Coleman was brought in to help with baserunning, not bunting. And it wasn't specifically for CP...it was for the whole team.

 

Here's a nice article referencing "Minor League baserunning instructor Vince Coleman"

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-050521cubsside,1,4019823.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

[KingCubsFan]

I love how Isaacson tries to make it seem like Corey was brought down primarily by us (the fans). That's ridiculous. While I was never a fan of people booing Corey at every oppurtunity, the comments made by the Orioles hitting coach show we weren't the ones destroying Corey's career. Patterson should be the clearest example to Hendry that

A)Dusty does not "get the most" out of his players or whatever you want to call his one supposed skill. In fact, he often puts them in positions to fail. (See LaTroy, Neifi).

B) Dusty can't construct a batting order and identify the strengths and weaknesses of his players. If you notice, Corey is doing all of this while batting 6th in the lineup (where a lot of us advocated he should hit in the lineup) rather than being forced to become Dusty's version of Lou Brock.

C) Gene Clines may go down as the worst coach in recent Chicago sports history. I think it's time we examine the idea that:

Gene Clines

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/images/2004/10/11/S5eooa6Y.jpg = John Shoop http://www.raiders.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/OJNHCMLNDIED/shoop-coach-2005.jpg

[srbin84]

Again, the Cubs tried to get CPatt to bunt for base hits, but it just didn't work. They even brougth in Vince Coleman to work with him. Baltimore tried and it worked. That's the difference between Patterson last year and this year.

 

false.

 

Look at Patterson's numbers when he isn't bunting for a base hit. Awful.

[Banedon]

Again, the Cubs tried to get CPatt to bunt for base hits, but it just didn't work. They even brougth in Vince Coleman to work with him. Baltimore tried and it worked. That's the difference between Patterson last year and this year.

 

false.

 

Look at Patterson's numbers when he isn't bunting for a base hit. Awful.

 

Same tired argument. Lets not rehash it here.

 

Besides, even if you're right about that, your quoted statement is still wrong for the reasons I pointed out.

[Abe Frohman]

Who cares about Cline as a player, look at his track record as a coach. This team has not hit the last two years. They swing at first pitches all the time, strike out way too much, and for the most part can't bunt for crap. That falls on him as hitting coatch. He has made no progress with these players. How does that guy still have a job? If I did that poorly of a job, I wouldn't be employed. Why is he so special? And I'm so sick of all these excuses about injuries and bad breaks. Dusty has to be so sick of repeating himself. He sounds like a broken record. He has obviously lost his effectiveness. He should just walk out. With that much payroll, you should be able to lose half the team and still play .500 ball. This is absolutely disgusting. What is it going to take?

 

Welcome aboard. I'm new myself, and always appreciate people who agree with me! :)

 

Take Ronny Cedeno, for instance. The kid can hit, but he would be twice the player if he would just TAKE A STRIKE. Look at him at the plate these days - if it is even close to the zone, he is hacking. The kid isn't thinking up there - like Ted Williams preached, MAKE THEM THROW YOU A PITCH YOU CAN HIT.

 

When you work a pitcher, he will eventually make a mistake. The more pitches he throws, the more mistakes he will make. Look at the teams that win - their hitters get on base via the walk frequently. Clogging the bases.

 

Nearly all the great hitters took the walk. Probably because they knew how to get the pitcher into a position in which he would have to give them a drivable pitch.

 

That right there is more than Gene Clines has obviously taught the 2006 Cubs. All in a book called "The Science of Hitting" by Ted Williams.

[TB_11]

Braves center fielder Andruw Jones should have been suspicious. Instead, as Patterson had hoped, Jones took his time getting the ball out of his glove. When he did, Patterson turned his decoy into a dead sprint to third. Jones recovered in time to throw out Patterson...

I fail to see how that wasn't a bone-headed play. If it were Jock doing it everyone here would be calling for his head.

 

I think the point writing about that play was to show that Corey had enough confidence to attempt going to third on a great defensive CF. There were worries about Corey's confidence after the treatment of coaches and the fans in Chicago.

I think that's a pretty poor example to use when he tries to "decoy" the CF and then gets nailed in the process. :D

 

It was also used to show that when he made a mistake, the Baltimore coaches praised his aggressiveness. A play like that in Chicago would have yielded a solid amount of criticism.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Corey needed to get out of Chicago. It is a damned shame that he couldn't do all of this for the Cubs. I am sure he was getting an earful of advice, but a ML player needs to adjust (from what I hear). It is obvious that a change of scenery would work magic for CP, and I am happy for him.

 

His success could quite possibly open eyes as to how horrible our coaching staff is for the Cubs. Just look at the guy we have as a hitting coach. Check his stats out when he played.

 

It is pathetic.

 

I don't think that has anything to do with his ability to instruct or not. Coaches stats as a player are not something to look for when deciding on the quality of instruction he is giving a modern day player.

 

Though you have a solid point, I do as well. Clines has to be judged by the fruit of his labor. The Cub offense is horrific. He is not effective, nor is he making any sort of difference.

 

I hate to be critical, but when you have a payroll of nearly $100 million, you should at least be in the top 75% of the standings. The Cubs could do this poorly with a $15 million payroll.

 

Am I wrong?

 

You certainly are not "wrong" ... I just don't see how any manager/coach could be evaluated on past playing performance. Take for instance Mike Maddux, definatly not a top-of-the line pitcher, but a dang good pitching coach.

 

Your point is taken regarding Clines...I have wanted to see him gone for some time now!

[FergieJ31]

I dont think Patterson is ever going to be a "stud" However what he was and is going to be is a good defensive CF with some pop and speed. If he was left at the 6 or 7 spot in the order where he belongs he would probably still be there with the Cubs being effective...

 

I agree 100% with the above, "stud" is too strong a word.

 

Corey is playing well relative to his career numbers, but even so his offensive numbers, 0.325/.436/0.761, are only so-so among all CFers, and near the bottom just in the AL (though Cub fans would be rejoicing if JP had a 761 OPS).

 

I'm just as ticked off about another ex-Cub CF who IS having a stud year at the plate: Sarge Junior.

 

Corey is having a very fine season defensively though; good for him.

[YearofDaCubs]

Corey is gone now but too bad the coaching staff hasn't changed. Didn't you guys find it ridiculous that Sarge was never fired but was moved to 1st instead? Then instead of hiring another hitting coach they just promotoed Clines as hitting coach. Why? What in the world is going on with this organization? Hendry is just a terrible GM. We're not going anywhere until this entire organization gets cleaned out.

[Abe Frohman]

Remember a couple years ago when Hendry fired some of Dusty's coaches? Kinda seems that things have been not so good since then. Hmmmmm....

[srbin84]

Remember a couple years ago when Hendry fired some of Dusty's coaches? Kinda seems that things have been not so good since then. Hmmmmm....

 

Who else did they fire other than ole sawed off as I believe Mike Murphy used to call him?

[muskie]

 

I don't think that has anything to do with his ability to instruct or not. Coaches stats as a player are not something to look for when deciding on the quality of instruction he is giving a modern day player.

 

Great players (i.e., those with great physical talent) generally don't do as much of the mental work it takes to be great at hitting/pitching/fielding/baserunning (with notable exceptions of course), because they don't need to. It's the marginally talented players who stick in professional baseball through their intelligence, and not their physical talent, who most often end up becoming great coaches.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Again, the Cubs tried to get CPatt to bunt for base hits, but it just didn't work. They even brougth in Vince Coleman to work with him. Baltimore tried and it worked. That's the difference between Patterson last year and this year.

 

false.

 

Look at Patterson's numbers when he isn't bunting for a base hit. Awful.

 

What's the point? What does it prove?