Levine reports on Tejada for Prior rumor 12/22 - 26

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I just want to know at what point Pie became untouchable, and Prior became expendable. Logic seems kind of flawed to me. Or maybe Hendry really does want fans to blow up his car and burn down his office. Cause that's about where I'm at right now. (Kidding!.... or am i?)

[abuck1220]

i don't understand why baltimore wants 'more than one star' in return for tejada, who is ONE star. what makes them think they deserve two stars for one? that's like saying i want two dollars for one. that doesn't even make sense...especially since they're the ones w/ an unhappy player who wants out.

 

i also like that baltimore needs pitching...but that prior isn't enough for them. your staff must really suck if you add a #1-#2 and you still need a bunch more pitching.

[USSoccer]

i don't understand why baltimore wants 'more than one star' in return for tejada, who is ONE star. what makes them think they deserve two stars for one? that's like saying i want two dollars for one. that doesn't even make sense...especially since they're the ones w/ an unhappy player who wants out.

 

i also like that baltimore needs pitching...but that prior isn't enough for them. your staff must really suck if you add a #1-#2 and you still need a bunch more pitching.

 

They're either diabolically brilliant in trying to exploit Hendry's desperation, or incredibly stupid for looking a gift horse in the mouth and not taking the already lopsided deal and running.

[Connor McConnor]

I have the feeling Prior is gonna break out this season....maybe not another 2003, but a great season. Then they won't think of trading him so easily.

 

I agree and think that all Prior needs to do is avoid injury to do that.

 

If he makes 30+ starts, he should contend for the NL Cy Young, along with Zambrano.

 

p.s.- I understand that staying healthy and getting run support are both big ifs for these fellas to compete for a Cy.

 

Just curious.....what if he stays healthy and has an average season? Say 11-12 wins.....not spectacular. Then what? Is it because he still hasnt overcome injuries? Or...because of Dusty....or?

 

I guess I'm asking if there would be a circumstance where Cub fans might come to the conclusion that he was not going to be the dominant pitcher we all hoped for? That maybe big league hitters can hit him?

[nilodnayr]

I have the feeling Prior is gonna break out this season....maybe not another 2003, but a great season. Then they won't think of trading him so easily.

 

I agree and think that all Prior needs to do is avoid injury to do that.

 

If he makes 30+ starts, he should contend for the NL Cy Young, along with Zambrano.

 

p.s.- I understand that staying healthy and getting run support are both big ifs for these fellas to compete for a Cy.

 

Just curious.....what if he stays healthy and has an average season? Say 11-12 wins.....not spectacular. Then what? Is it because he still hasnt overcome injuries? Or...because of Dusty....or?

 

I guess I'm asking if there would be a circumstance where Cub fans might come to the conclusion that he was not going to be the dominant pitcher we all hoped for? That maybe big league hitters can hit him?

 

If hes healthy and has 11 or 12 wins its because hendry has failed to put an offense together than can produce and Dusty is batting low OBP guys at the top of the order. Frankly, I dont care how many wins he has, he doesn't have the majority of control over whether or not he gets the win.

[Mark Priors Calves]

I have the feeling Prior is gonna break out this season....maybe not another 2003, but a great season. Then they won't think of trading him so easily.

 

I agree and think that all Prior needs to do is avoid injury to do that.

 

If he makes 30+ starts, he should contend for the NL Cy Young, along with Zambrano.

 

p.s.- I understand that staying healthy and getting run support are both big ifs for these fellas to compete for a Cy.

 

Just curious.....what if he stays healthy and has an average season? Say 11-12 wins.....not spectacular. Then what? Is it because he still hasnt overcome injuries? Or...because of Dusty....or?

 

I guess I'm asking if there would be a circumstance where Cub fans might come to the conclusion that he was not going to be the dominant pitcher we all hoped for? That maybe big league hitters can hit him?

 

If Prior puts up 11-12 wins like Clemens put up 13 in '05 or Millwood's 9 win, I will be extremely please and every Cub fan should be as well.

[Sarcastic]

If Prior were to be completely healthy in 2006 and not show any improvement in his shaky control that was evident after he came back from the line drive, that would lower his value. If he loses his stuff and fails to strike out hitters like he has, that would lower his value. If he is generally hit hard despite a completely healthy season, I would wonder if the injuries have caused permanent damage to his ability to be effective. Otherwise, I will still regard him as capable of Cy Young Award winning type numbers.

[Connor McConnor]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

[Connor McConnor]

If Prior were to be completely healthy in 2006 and not show any improvement in his shaky control that was evident after he came back from the line drive, that would lower his value. If he loses his stuff and fails to strike out hitters like he has, that would lower his value. If he is generally hit hard despite a completely healthy season, I would wonder if the injuries have caused permanent damage to his ability to be effective. Otherwise, I will still regard him as capable of Cy Young Award winning type numbers.

 

Fair enough. Makes sense.

[da bears]

I wonder if Hendry even realizes that a lot of fans already dislike him for the last 2 offseasons. I wonder if he also realizes that trading Prior wold just outrage fans even more than they already are with him.

[Tim]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

I'd like to go back to what a Cards' fan pointed out earlier in the discussion. If Prior qualified with enough innings at this point, he would rank 6th among active pitchers in ERA. Sixth!

 

How on earth is that not dominant enough for you?

[Tim]

From an individual production standpoint, I'd much rather see Prior with a 220 IP, 1.90 ERA, 15 W season than 200 IP, 3.50 ERA, 22 W season. I can't see how anyone could argue that the second season is better as an individual performance. I just don't get it.

 

I could care less if Mark Prior wins 20 games. I care very much that the Cubs win a lot. But for Prior himself, I just want to measure him on how he pitches.

[CuseCubFan69]

From an individual production standpoint, I'd much rather see Prior with a 220 IP, 1.90 ERA, 15 W season than 200 IP, 3.50 ERA, 22 W season. I can't see how anyone could argue that the second season is better as an individual performance. I just don't get it.

 

I could care less if Mark Prior wins 20 games. I care very much that the Cubs win a lot. But for Prior himself, I just want to measure him on how he pitches.

 

How many more runs is a 3.50 over a 1.90 when a pitcher throws 200 innings in a season?

[Tim]

From an individual production standpoint, I'd much rather see Prior with a 220 IP, 1.90 ERA, 15 W season than 200 IP, 3.50 ERA, 22 W season. I can't see how anyone could argue that the second season is better as an individual performance. I just don't get it.

 

I could care less if Mark Prior wins 20 games. I care very much that the Cubs win a lot. But for Prior himself, I just want to measure him on how he pitches.

 

How many more runs is a 3.50 over a 1.90 when a pitcher throws 200 innings in a season?

1.6 * 200 / 9 = ~36 runs

[TXCubsFan]

The core question for the Orioles, it seems to me, is whether they are ready to rebuild or are they willing to limp along in mediocrity. If they want to rebuild, the only justification for asking for Prior rather than a Hill/Guzman combo is that they believe that they can spin Prior for better prospects in the Dodgers or Angels farm systems.

 

Hendry might be better to sit pat and start with a Cedeno / Hairston middle infield with Neifi playing once or twice a week. If Guzman and Hill are the real thing, then other, more promising, trades will develop over time. The Cards and Astros have had weak offseasons, and I suspect the Brewers are a year away. No need for a panic trade.

[Fred Hornkohl]

How many more runs is a 3.50 over a 1.90 when a pitcher throws 200 innings in a season?

 

Approximately 35.5

[Tim]

How many more runs is a 3.50 over a 1.90 when a pitcher throws 200 innings in a season?

 

Approximately 35.5

I decided to round up since I posited a few more innings than 200. :D

[Fred Hornkohl]

How many more runs is a 3.50 over a 1.90 when a pitcher throws 200 innings in a season?

 

Approximately 35.5

I decided to round up since I posited a few more innings than 200. :D

 

.... and you beat me, too !

[Connor McConnor]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

I'd like to go back to what a Cards' fan pointed out earlier in the discussion. If Prior qualified with enough innings at this point, he would rank 6th among active pitchers in ERA. Sixth!

 

How on earth is that not dominant enough for you?

 

I think I saw many posts go by that said they wouldnt trade Prior for anyone.....certainly no other pitcher. My point was that he needs to be the pitching stud of the next decade to live up to expectations.

 

I wouldnt pretend to be the stats guy that many around here are......but if he's sixth....that means there are at least 5 better. Right? I'm sure age and many other things need to be factored in.......but he has a lot to prove. From a lot of the sentiment around here you would think that he has proved it already. Is it that unreasonable to be somewhat skeptical as to whether or not he can live up to expectations?

[Tim]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

I'd like to go back to what a Cards' fan pointed out earlier in the discussion. If Prior qualified with enough innings at this point, he would rank 6th among active pitchers in ERA. Sixth!

 

How on earth is that not dominant enough for you?

 

I think I saw many posts go by that said they wouldnt trade Prior for anyone.....certainly no other pitcher. My point was that he needs to be the pitching stud of the next decade to live up to expectations.

 

I wouldnt pretend to be the stats guy that many around here are......but if he's sixth....that means there are at least 5 better. Right? I'm sure age and many other things need to be factored in.......but he has a lot to prove. From a lot of the sentiment around here you would think that he has proved it already. Is it that unreasonable to be somewhat skeptical as to whether or not he can live up to expectations?

Let's put it this way...Pedro is definitely one of the six with a better ERA at this point. Would you trade Prior for him? Given the age, contract and other questions surrounding them, I'd certainly want to keep Prior.

 

There's one other pitcher in baseball I'd trade straight up right now for Prior and that's Johan Santana. That's it.

[fromthestretch]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

I'd like to go back to what a Cards' fan pointed out earlier in the discussion. If Prior qualified with enough innings at this point, he would rank 6th among active pitchers in ERA. Sixth!

 

How on earth is that not dominant enough for you?

 

I think I saw many posts go by that said they wouldnt trade Prior for anyone.....certainly no other pitcher. My point was that he needs to be the pitching stud of the next decade to live up to expectations.

 

I wouldnt pretend to be the stats guy that many around here are......but if he's sixth....that means there are at least 5 better. Right? I'm sure age and many other things need to be factored in.......but he has a lot to prove. From a lot of the sentiment around here you would think that he has proved it already. Is it that unreasonable to be somewhat skeptical as to whether or not he can live up to expectations?

 

I'd say that his numbers in 2003 at age 22 proved what he can do.

[Connor McConnor]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

I'd like to go back to what a Cards' fan pointed out earlier in the discussion. If Prior qualified with enough innings at this point, he would rank 6th among active pitchers in ERA. Sixth!

 

How on earth is that not dominant enough for you?

 

I think I saw many posts go by that said they wouldnt trade Prior for anyone.....certainly no other pitcher. My point was that he needs to be the pitching stud of the next decade to live up to expectations.

 

I wouldnt pretend to be the stats guy that many around here are......but if he's sixth....that means there are at least 5 better. Right? I'm sure age and many other things need to be factored in.......but he has a lot to prove. From a lot of the sentiment around here you would think that he has proved it already. Is it that unreasonable to be somewhat skeptical as to whether or not he can live up to expectations?

 

I'd say that his numbers in 2003 at age 22 proved what he can do.

 

It proved what he could do at age 22 in 2003. If the 2003 Prior is whats in the future...you dont trade him for anyone. Of course none of us know....but I don't see how people can be so sure that his future greatness is inevitable. It is possible that his 2003 performance will not happen again. I think its fair to say that we all hope that we will get more than just one year or occasional glimpses of greatness?

 

I wouldnt trade him for another pticher. THe only reason I'd even think about it...is because we need offense....and a lineup of Lee, Ramirez, Tejada.....is something I would really enjoying watching. Granted.....might be a mistake.....but that lineup would keep me in front of my TV many hours at a time.

[Diffusion]

i don't understand why baltimore wants 'more than one star' in return for tejada, who is ONE star. what makes them think they deserve two stars for one? that's like saying i want two dollars for one. that doesn't even make sense...especially since they're the ones w/ an unhappy player who wants out.

 

i also like that baltimore needs pitching...but that prior isn't enough for them. your staff must really suck if you add a #1-#2 and you still need a bunch more pitching.

 

They're either diabolically brilliant in trying to exploit Hendry's desperation, or incredibly stupid for looking a gift horse in the mouth and not taking the already lopsided deal and running.

 

Or, and this is what I'm clinging to, the reporting of what's going on is completely unrelated to the reality.

[CuseCubFan69]

From an individual production standpoint, I'd much rather see Prior with a 220 IP, 1.90 ERA, 15 W season than 200 IP, 3.50 ERA, 22 W season. I can't see how anyone could argue that the second season is better as an individual performance. I just don't get it.

 

I could care less if Mark Prior wins 20 games. I care very much that the Cubs win a lot. But for Prior himself, I just want to measure him on how he pitches.

 

How many more runs is a 3.50 over a 1.90 when a pitcher throws 200 innings in a season?

1.6 * 200 / 9 = ~36 runs

 

So if Prior has a really bad start in which he gives up 36 runs you would still rather have the 15 wins and more innings over the 22 wins and less innings? :D

 

So, that's about a run a game correct? If I look at it that way no but what if it's just that Prior blows up for a few games and say he gives up 6 or 7 5 times but is dominate the rest of the time....I would rather take that then the consistant 2 and fewer wins. It also, going by your innings has him pitch less and the Cubs pen would be more effective in a 22 win scenario.

[Outshined_One]

Needless to say, I'm incredibly thankful the Orioles are being quite greedy in this whole process.

 

Look, I like Tejada and think he would be an automatic upgrade over what we currently have at SS. He'll produce nicely in this lineup and his contract is reasonable. I have no problem with Hendry making a move to acquire him.

 

But...he's not the kind of bat that would turn this offense into a juggernaut for the next few years. He's not a Manny Ramirez, a Miguel Cabrera, or an Albert Pujols. Heck, he's not even a Bobby Abreu or a Lance Bekman. As it's been said, Tejada would make a solid 5th hitter. I don't think he'll out-produce Aramis Ramirez next season and I think there's a reasonable chance that Derrek Lee out-produces Tejada, as well.

 

If the Cubs are going to trade Prior, my hope would be that it would be for some one who could make this team an offensive force. I don't see that in Tejada. I'm also worried that Tejada's production and range will continue to decline over the length of his contract. If he has to move from SS because his range has taken a nosedive, then his value will go flying out the window.

 

I really do hope that if the Cubs trade Prior to the Orioles that they get some worthwhile prospects from the Orioles. Trading Prior for just Tejada and Bedard would be a mistake, imo. At least some decent prospects would make it suck less.