What you're getting in JJ (so long it needs it's own thread)

[TC3_Hinrich12]

An article I wrote at a blog I contribute to...

 

I’m not writing this to convince you that this is a good signing or he will ever be anything close to worth it. I don’t think it’s possible to do that, he’s already, even before he was a Cub, thrown under the bridge and not given a chance. I’m writing this to stop the non sense Burnitz/Patterson comparisons, play the numbers game and tell you what you’re getting. If you want to really know what you’re getting, don’t be brainwashed and give in to the garbage you read on the internet or newspaper, they don’t know crap. In case you didn’t already know, I am also a Twins fan since 2001 and have seen him play consistantly since then. These writers, they just look at the numbers, they don’t know anything about him. Take it from a Twins fan, no biasness, Ima be real as possible. So if you want to really have a true scouting report, read this and not the other garbage. Sorry if this is too long, I have plenty of things to say.

 

First off, lets stop the Burnitz/ Patterson comparisons. That’s crap, it doesn’t make any sense at all. None whatsoever. All we hear is the strikeout comparisons with him and Patterson. Now we’ve all seen Patterson play, he is not Jacque Jones, not even close. He’s the worst player a lot of us have seen in our lifetime as baseball fans period. Stop the nonsense K comparisons. Yes JJ does K a lot, but not close to Patterson. JJ has 737 career strikeouts in 3492 career AB’s, that’s a 21.1% K rate (yes, a stat I invented by myself). Patterson has 552 career K’s in 2176 career AB’s for a 25.3% K rate. Last year JJ K’d only twice more and Patterson missed a huge part of the season. I have figured these K stats before and from what I remember Patterson had something like the 7th highest K rate in the MLB, JJ was not on the list. Last year’s K rates, JJ had 120 K’s in 523 AB’s for a 22.9% K rate. Patterson had 118 K’s in 451 AB’s for a 26.1% rate. That’s terrible, and 22.9 to 26.1 is a big difference. This is all people have to say when they compare these 2 is the strikeouts, that’s all they point out. I am not saying JJ’s K rates are acceptable, they’re not, he does K way too much. But not nearly as much as Patterson. Remember, Patterson had 168 strikeouts in 04 and has gotten over 140 twice, JJ’s worst is 129. Would you like to keep playing the numbers game? Please, lets keep doing that, I’d be more than happy.

 

Oh, and what did Patterson say during the middle of the season? “It’s just a game.” JJ’s never said that, he never will, and leaves it all out on the field every time.

 

Now Burnitz to Jones is a better comparison, statistically. But they are no where near the same player, not even close. Jones has speed and has a glove, etc. Don’t be fooled by his SB #’s, he has plenty of speed but is not a good base stealer. And he won’t make Moises Alou esk baserunning plays. But that’s a whole other issue for later.

 

2005 was a tough year for the Twins and Jacque Jones, it flat out sucked. Jones had his injury problems and his uncle, who raised him passed away during the season. Try playing with that on your mind. Torii Hunter got injured on July 31st and that’s when everything was officialy done. Don’t judge him by his 05 year, don’t. You know these types of years, they happen to every team.

 

What are you getting with Jones? This kind of goes with the nonsense comparisons to Burnitz. I say it all the time, you’re getting a leader. Why do I always say he’s a leader? If you ever watched a Twins game, him and Torii Hunter were the glue that held that team together from 02-04, they were true leaders, the heart and soul of the team. I believe you need a guy like JJ to win, I don’t buy into the best talent out there. I like to compare it to a Chicago Bulls refernce. Did they have the best talent in 04-05 season? No way, they were all young guys. You know a big reason why they won? 2 guys that never get credit, Antonio Davis and Jannero Pargo. Not the best comparison but those guys kept it together. Pargo didn’t show up a lot in the box score but he was the joker in the locker room and kept it loose. AD was the vet leader. Cubs have no leaders like JJ. But who will be JJ’s Torii Hunter? I think Juan Pierre, I really see these guys being the vocal leaders and getting along.

 

You’re getting a clutch hitter and I have numbers to prove it. I can recall hundreds of times he came through in the clutch, even last year. Numbers will say he wasn’t a clutch hitter in 2005, but like I said, 2005 just was not a good year overall for everyone on that team. Lets play the numbers game, I’d be more than happy to.

 

2003: He hit 294/4/27 with RISP and 2 outs. He hit 308/5/58 with runners on. In the 7th or later, he hit 302/2/18 and extra inning was 5 for 10 with a home run and 5 RBI. “Late inning pressure situations” he hit 328/1/8.

 

2004: 217 with RISP and 2 outs, 272 RISP overall. He hit 256/12/68 with runners on. 7th or later, he hit 277/9/31 and “Late inning pressure situations” was 325/6/19. Clutch. Here, I’ll spell it for you, C-L-U-T-C-H!

 

You’re getting a guy that that plays great defense, gold glove calibor. He does have a terrible arm, sometimes his throws to home will go in the RF stands. But he makes up for it with range. People don’t know about his glove because of Torii Hunter, but he has a great glove. And we’re always saying we want defense!

 

You’re getting an energy guy. We don’t have one of those, one of those guys that gets a big hit and pumps up the team. He brings the adrenaline and that makes the whole team play a lot better. He can be the igniter.

 

Since I’ve babbled too long, i’ll get to the point. Overall you’re getting a guy that is a leader, clutch hitter, energy guy and a great glove. But he will K and he will go into slumps. When he slumps it’s hard to watch him, he swings at everything and that’s where his K’s come from. He is a bad thrower and hasn’t reached his potential in his career, but he is a quality player. When he’s playing like he can, he is one hell of a player and is fun to watch. Oh, and why does he not get a lot of RBI? In 03 and 04, he led off over half the season and look who was on the team, not many OBP guys. Now he’ll be hitting behing Lee and Ramirez. I expect him to return to his 02-04 form and get 275+ 25 and 80+ with plenty of intangibles. He can hit for average and has hit under 275 only twice in this 7 year careerwith a 279 career avg. He’s hit for 300 twice.

[E.J.]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

[Mizzou]

Apparently his OBP took a nosedive starting in August last year when he started playing hurt. Supposedly he was headed to the DL and then Hunter got hurt so he played through the pain. I'm not a fan of the move, but sometimes you have to look deeper at the numbers.

 

EDIT: Oh, and can we please not start calling him JJ?

[RockTheIvy]

Well I'm sure Gene "OBP" Clines will take care of him, like he did with (K)orey. Oh wait. That was in that other reality. Edited December 21, 2005 by RockTheIvy

[Blueheart05]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

 

He is bad overall but I would argue that he is clutch. I know he's been a nightmare against the Sox for years and he hits higher than his career average with RISP.

[BigbadB]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

 

I don't see anything wrong with someone offering a positive spin on Jones. You don't have to buy what someone is selling.

 

No locky.

[Andy]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

 

He is bad overall but I would argue that he is clutch. I know he's been a nightmare against the Sox for years and he hits higher than his career average with RISP.

I could hit higher than Jacque Jones' career average with RISP.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Jacque Jones, like so many baseball players before him, suffers from VCS. VCS is, of course, Vanishing Clutch Syndrome.

 

Take 2005 for instance. He performs great with Runners on and with RISP, a .879 and .881 OPS respectively. But when those RISP happen with two outs, BAM, VCS strikes. Poor Jacque only mustered a .612 OPS w/ RISP 2 outs.

 

Or how about 2004? Stellar marks with Runners on, RISP, RISP 2 outs. But when the bases are loaded, VCS turns Jacque into a little leaguer. A staggering .100 OPS in that scenario in '04, that's not a misprint. Also, despite having great production w/ runners on, and RISP 2 outs, when it's just runners on and 2 outs, VCS hampers Jacque to a paltry .702 OPS.

 

There may be a cure out there somewhere, but some people don't think VCS exists at all. In fact, they think that there isn't anything depriving the players of their clutchness. They claim that since performance in those situations changes so much from year to year, and comes under such small samples, that Clutch itself is not real. You be the judge.

[RockTheIvy]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

 

I don't see anything wrong with someone offering a positive spin on Jones. You don't have to buy what someone is selling.

 

No locky.

 

We need someone to pull us off the edge!

[treebird]

Jacque Jones, like so many baseball players before him, suffers from VCS. VCS is, of course, Vanishing Clutch Syndrome.

 

Take 2005 for instance. He performs great with Runners on and with RISP, a .879 and .881 OPS respectively. But when those RISP happen with two outs, BAM, VCS strikes. Poor Jacque only mustered a .612 OPS w/ RISP 2 outs.

 

Or how about 2004? Stellar marks with Runners on, RISP, RISP 2 outs. But when the bases are loaded, VCS turns Jacque into a little leaguer. A staggering .100 OPS in that scenario in '04, that's not a misprint. Also, despite having great production w/ runners on, and RISP 2 outs, when it's just runners on and 2 outs, VCS hampers Jacque to a paltry .702 OPS.

 

There may be a cure out there somewhere, but some people don't think VCS exists at all. In fact, they think that there isn't anything depriving the players of their clutchness. They claim that since performance in those situations changes so much from year to year, and comes under such small samples, that Clutch itself is not real. You be the judge.

 

[applause]

[Blueheart05]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

 

He is bad overall but I would argue that he is clutch. I know he's been a nightmare against the Sox for years and he hits higher than his career average with RISP.

I could hit higher than Jacque Jones' career average with RISP.

 

If you can hit higher than .279 you shuld be in the Bigs.

[E.J.]

Jacque Jones, like so many baseball players before him, suffers from VCS. VCS is, of course, Vanishing Clutch Syndrome.

 

Take 2005 for instance. He performs great with Runners on and with RISP, a .879 and .881 OPS respectively. But when those RISP happen with two outs, BAM, VCS strikes. Poor Jacque only mustered a .612 OPS w/ RISP 2 outs.

 

Or how about 2004? Stellar marks with Runners on, RISP, RISP 2 outs. But when the bases are loaded, VCS turns Jacque into a little leaguer. A staggering .100 OPS in that scenario in '04, that's not a misprint. Also, despite having great production w/ runners on, and RISP 2 outs, when it's just runners on and 2 outs, VCS hampers Jacque to a paltry .702 OPS.

 

There may be a cure out there somewhere, but some people don't think VCS exists at all. In fact, they think that there isn't anything depriving the players of their clutchness. They claim that since performance in those situations changes so much from year to year, and comes under such small samples, that Clutch itself is not real. You be the judge.

 

[applause]

 

But the dude hustles and pumps up the team...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While we're working on getting a clutch hitter, can we sign some gnomes, fairies, centaurs, elves, and dragons. Because those mythological creatures are as based in reality as clutch hitting.

[Mizzou]

Apparently his OBP took a nosedive starting in August last year when he started playing hurt. Supposedly he was headed to the DL and then Hunter got hurt so he played through the pain. I'm not a fan of the move, but sometimes you have to look deeper at the numbers.

 

EDIT: Oh, and can we please not start calling him JJ?

 

To add to that...

 

He strained his oblique on August 10th of last year. At the time, his line was 261/342/450. At the end of the year, after playing hurt for the final two months, his final line was 249/319/438. So it's entirely conceivable that had he not gotten injured, his numbers wouldn't have been nearly as bad as they would have.

 

And geez TC3, relax man!

Edited December 21, 2005 by Mizzou

[RockTheIvy]

Oh well, if the mods don't like what i have to say they will delete my posts or ban me.

 

Write what you want, my man. Don't let the HPC get you down!

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Okay then...

 

First off, lets stop the Burnitz/ Patterson comparisons. That’s crap, it doesn’t make any sense at all. None whatsoever. All we hear is the strikeout comparisons with him and Patterson. Now we’ve all seen Patterson play, he is not Jacque Jones, not even close. He’s the worst player a lot of us have seen in our lifetime as baseball fans period. Stop the nonsense K comparisons. Yes JJ does K a lot, but not close to Patterson. JJ has 737 career strikeouts in 3492 career AB’s, that’s a 21.1% K rate (yes, a stat I invented by myself). Patterson has 552 career K’s in 2176 career AB’s for a 25.3% K rate. Last year JJ K’d only twice more and Patterson missed a huge part of the season. I have figured these K stats before and from what I remember Patterson had something like the 7th highest K rate in the MLB, JJ was not on the list. Last year’s K rates, JJ had 120 K’s in 523 AB’s for a 22.9% K rate. Patterson had 118 K’s in 451 AB’s for a 26.1% rate. That’s terrible, and 22.9 to 26.1 is a big difference. This is all people have to say when they compare these 2 is the strikeouts, that’s all they point out. I am not saying JJ’s K rates are acceptable, they’re not, he does K way too much. But not nearly as much as Patterson. Remember, Patterson had 168 strikeouts in 04 and has gotten over 140 twice, JJ’s worst is 129. Would you like to keep playing the numbers game? Please, lets keep doing that, I’d be more than happy.

 

First of all, K's are way down the list on why Jones is terrible. K's are not evil. Most times they are no different than any other out, and they chiefly harm you on the whole by hampering your BABIP(a stat I did not make up).

 

Oh, and what did Patterson say during the middle of the season? “It’s just a game.” JJ’s never said that, he never will, and leaves it all out on the field every time.

 

This is garbage. It's enough that Patterson has been unfairly criticized for not caring, but there's never any evidence that he of all people doesn't "leave it on the field every time". And furthermore, who cares if he "leaves it on the field every time"? He's not good, players like Augie Ojeda and Bo Hart leave it all on the field, that doesn't make them worthwhile ballplayers.

 

Now Burnitz to Jones is a better comparison, statistically. But they are no where near the same player, not even close. Jones has speed and has a glove, etc. Don’t be fooled by his SB #’s, he has plenty of speed but is not a good base stealer. And he won’t make Moises Alou esk baserunning plays. But that’s a whole other issue for later.

 

So Jones has a good glove, is fast, and doesn't screw up on the basepaths. Okay, so do many other people who are terrible baseball players. Corey Patterson fits all those criteria, to carry over a common theme. We certainly shouldn't be giving him a huge contract.

 

2005 was a tough year for the Twins and Jacque Jones, it flat out sucked. Jones had his injury problems and his uncle, who raised him passed away during the season. Try playing with that on your mind. Torii Hunter got injured on July 31st and that’s when everything was officialy done. Don’t judge him by his 05 year, don’t. You know these types of years, they happen to every team.

 

I could buy Jones having a down year because of external factors, these things happen. However, there's no discernable difference in production between the rest of his career and '05. He was performing the same as he always was.

 

What are you getting with Jones? This kind of goes with the nonsense comparisons to Burnitz. I say it all the time, you’re getting a leader. Why do I always say he’s a leader? If you ever watched a Twins game, him and Torii Hunter were the glue that held that team together from 02-04, they were true leaders, the heart and soul of the team. I believe you need a guy like JJ to win, I don’t buy into the best talent out there. I like to compare it to a Chicago Bulls refernce. Did they have the best talent in 04-05 season? No way, they were all young guys. You know a big reason why they won? 2 guys that never get credit, Antonio Davis and Jannero Pargo. Not the best comparison but those guys kept it together. Pargo didn’t show up a lot in the box score but he was the joker in the locker room and kept it loose. AD was the vet leader. Cubs have no leaders like JJ. But who will be JJ’s Torii Hunter? I think Juan Pierre, I really see these guys being the vocal leaders and getting along.

 

I really hope that Pierre and Jones inspire the team to new heights, I really do. I'll set the likelihood of it happening at negative 2 percent though. Baseball isn't basketball or football, where the players need to act in harmony to make things work. It's mostly a collection of individual performances. There's no evidence of Jones and Pierre motivating teammates to perform better at their previous gigs, how is it going to start now?

 

You’re getting a clutch hitter and I have numbers to prove it. I can recall hundreds of times he came through in the clutch, even last year. Numbers will say he wasn’t a clutch hitter in 2005, but like I said, 2005 just was not a good year overall for everyone on that team. Lets play the numbers game, I’d be more than happy to.

 

2003: He hit 294/4/27 with RISP and 2 outs. He hit 308/5/58 with runners on. In the 7th or later, he hit 302/2/18 and extra inning was 5 for 10 with a home run and 5 RBI. “Late inning pressure situations” he hit 328/1/8.

 

2004: 217 with RISP and 2 outs, 272 RISP overall. He hit 256/12/68 with runners on. 7th or later, he hit 277/9/31 and “Late inning pressure situations” was 325/6/19. Clutch. Here, I’ll spell it for you, C-L-U-T-C-H!

 

He's got VCS though. Hopefully Merck will have a prescription out soon.

 

You’re getting a guy that that plays great defense, gold glove calibor. He does have a terrible arm, sometimes his throws to home will go in the RF stands. But he makes up for it with range. People don’t know about his glove because of Torii Hunter, but he has a great glove. And we’re always saying we want defense!

 

Yes, Jones is an outstanding defender. And no, we are not always saying we want defense. Jim Hendry is, but most certainly not all of us here at NSBB.

 

You’re getting an energy guy. We don’t have one of those, one of those guys that gets a big hit and pumps up the team. He brings the adrenaline and that makes the whole team play a lot better. He can be the igniter.

 

This is cliched nonsense. There's no proof of this, it's just platitudes to make him sound better based on what you've seen of him.

[E.J.]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

 

What the f uck is your problem? Did you read one god damn paragraph? I don't care what the hell happens to me at this forum, my thread or my post. I don't appreciate this comment, read before replying. This thread shouldn't be locked, this post should be deleted.

 

 

Why didn't you compare Burnitz vs. Jones?

 

Burnitz vs. Jones comparison the past 3 years:

 

Burnitz's stats last 3 years:

 

.274 .344 .581 .925

.283 .356 .559 .915

.258 .322 .435 .757

 

Jones:

 

.304 .333 .464 .797

.254 .315 .427 .742

.249 .319 .438 .757

 

Which one looks better to you? Pretty obvious.

 

Jones might get better late in the game, but .217 with RISP and 2 outs? Or .256 with runners on base? That's not good at all.

 

And who cares if he is a big energy guy if he's going to post an OBP in the Neifi range.

 

I stick by my statement.

[RockTheIvy]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

 

What the f uck is your problem? Did you read one god damn paragraph? I don't care what the hell happens to me at this forum, my thread or my post. I don't appreciate this comment, read before replying. This thread shouldn't be locked, this post should be deleted.

 

 

Why didn't you compare Burnitz vs. Jones?

 

Burnitz vs. Jones comparison the past 3 years:

 

Burnitz's stats last 3 years:

 

.274 .344 .581 .925

.283 .356 .559 .915

.258 .322 .435 .757

 

Jones:

 

.304 .333 .464 .797

.254 .315 .427 .742

.249 .319 .438 .757

 

Which one looks better to you? Pretty obvious.

 

Jones might get better late in the game, but .217 with RISP and 2 outs? Or .256 with runners on base? That's not good at all.

 

And who cares if he is a big energy guy if he's going to post an OBP in the Neifi range.

 

I stick by my statement.

 

Even if he is a terrible option, if he hits a lot of HRs, and we have solid pitching, we can win the WS. Look across town...Or if they have a really good defense, perhaps with a front four that really gets to the QB...

[E.J.]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

 

What the f uck is your problem? Did you read one god damn paragraph? I don't care what the hell happens to me at this forum, my thread or my post. I don't appreciate this comment, read before replying. This thread shouldn't be locked, this post should be deleted.

 

 

Why didn't you compare Burnitz vs. Jones?

 

Burnitz vs. Jones comparison the past 3 years:

 

Burnitz's stats last 3 years:

 

.274 .344 .581 .925

.283 .356 .559 .915

.258 .322 .435 .757

 

Jones:

 

.304 .333 .464 .797

.254 .315 .427 .742

.249 .319 .438 .757

 

Which one looks better to you? Pretty obvious.

 

Jones might get better late in the game, but .217 with RISP and 2 outs? Or .256 with runners on base? That's not good at all.

 

And who cares if he is a big energy guy if he's going to post an OBP in the Neifi range.

 

I stick by my statement.

 

Even if he is a terrible option, if he hits a lot of HRs, and we have solid pitching, we can win the WS. Look across town...Or if they have a really good defense, perhaps with a front four that really gets to the QB...

 

 

Last year we were 2nd in the NL in homeruns. A lot of good that did us. And Jones will probably give you the same amount of homeruns Corey Patterson would give you in a given year.

 

Solid pitching is a different story.

[Deeg]

I'll take Burnitz' glove over Jones' in RF seven days a week. Better and more accurate arm, takes better routes, overall much more fundamentally sound. Jones is a fundamentally weak RF who gets by on above-average speed. In left his defense is a plus. In right he's average.

[RockTheIvy]

I don't even know where to start. Clutch? A leader? How about the fact that he batted .249 with an OBP of .319 last year. That's Neifiesque.

 

And how come you don't compare Burnitz's numbers to Jone's? Is it maybe becuase Burnitz stacks up better than Jones. To say that Jones runs the bases better and is a better defender is ridiculous.

 

And I don't care how much energy Jones bring if he can't hit for crap.

 

This thread is ridiculous and probably should be locked.

 

What the f uck is your problem? Did you read one god damn paragraph? I don't care what the hell happens to me at this forum, my thread or my post. I don't appreciate this comment, read before replying. This thread shouldn't be locked, this post should be deleted.

 

 

Why didn't you compare Burnitz vs. Jones?

 

Burnitz vs. Jones comparison the past 3 years:

 

Burnitz's stats last 3 years:

 

.274 .344 .581 .925

.283 .356 .559 .915

.258 .322 .435 .757

 

Jones:

 

.304 .333 .464 .797

.254 .315 .427 .742

.249 .319 .438 .757

 

Which one looks better to you? Pretty obvious.

 

Jones might get better late in the game, but .217 with RISP and 2 outs? Or .256 with runners on base? That's not good at all.

 

And who cares if he is a big energy guy if he's going to post an OBP in the Neifi range.

 

I stick by my statement.

 

Even if he is a terrible option, if he hits a lot of HRs, and we have solid pitching, we can win the WS. Look across town...Or if they have a really good defense, perhaps with a front four that really gets to the QB...

 

 

Last year we were 2nd in the NL in homeruns. A lot of good that did us. And Jones will probably give you the same amount of homeruns Corey Patterson would give you in a given year.

 

Solid pitching is a different story.

 

I'm just saying it's not like we are only playing with 8 people on defense and an automatic out every nine. The homotrailertrash White Sox one the world series with an embarrassing team. I wish JH would not have tried to emulate their My-trailer-is-in-the-path-of-every-tornado ways, but he did. Hopefully we get some luck. I'm not very optimistic, but I'll still pray for the team.

[Keener98]

Ok so lets go with the theory that Jones sucked last year because he played hurt, and his uncle died. Fine I can go with that.But what about his 2004 numbers

 

254 .315 .427 .742

 

Ummm those suck, so whats the excuses behind these numbers?

 

And to the comment about Corey saying "its just a game" give me a break. It sure does seem like you are trying to say that Jones has those "intangibles" that teams like in players. Ok when do we start getting players that have the "tangibles" that help teams win?

 

Pierre said his game doesnt translate well to paper, and that seems like what you are trying to say about Jones. Well it might help if we get some players who look good on paper.

[XZero771679666304]

 

2005 was a tough year for the Twins and Jacque Jones, it flat out sucked. Jones had his injury problems and his uncle, who raised him passed away during the season. Try playing with that on your mind. Torii Hunter got injured on July 31st and that’s when everything was officialy done. Don’t judge him by his 05 year, don’t. You know these types of years, they happen to every team.

 

I could buy Jones having a down year because of external factors, these things happen. However, there's no discernable difference in production between the rest of his career and '05. He was performing the same as he always was.

 

 

Not to nitpick a generally good post, but Jones' 2005 numbers were significantly below his career averages pretty well across the board, aside from XBH. His OPS was about 30 points below his career norm.

[1908]

Oh well, if the mods don't like what i have to say they will delete my posts or ban me.

You're free to express your opinion but that post was way out of line and you've been here long enough to know better. See you in two weeks.

[E.J.]

 

2005 was a tough year for the Twins and Jacque Jones, it flat out sucked. Jones had his injury problems and his uncle, who raised him passed away during the season. Try playing with that on your mind. Torii Hunter got injured on July 31st and that’s when everything was officialy done. Don’t judge him by his 05 year, don’t. You know these types of years, they happen to every team.

 

I could buy Jones having a down year because of external factors, these things happen. However, there's no discernable difference in production between the rest of his career and '05. He was performing the same as he always was.

 

 

Not to nitpick a generally good post, but Jones' 2005 numbers were significantly below his career averages pretty well across the board, aside from XBH. His OPS was about 30 points below his career norm.

 

His 2004 OPS was worse than his 2005. So he's had 2 horrible years in a row. How is this explained?