Mitre is terrible, period. End of story.

[TheDude]

Okay, I'm not saying this is you or anything, but why would people want to drive Maddux out of town but give Mitre a chance at the rotation? I know the salaries are in different galaxies, and I've been arguing mostly for the "Maddux isn't great anymore" side of things in the "Vesting" thread, but c'mon! I'll take 3 Maddux's in my rotation before I give Mitre a shot. I'm not sure how many innings a pitcher needs to show what he's got at the major league level, but 117 2/3 so far from Sergio have been awful

I think it is a problem with confidence. Mitre has [edit] not [/edit] been handed the ball and told "you're in the rotation". He has always been a replacement for injured pitchers, spot starter, or temporary rotation stop-gap.

 

I wonder how he would perform if he was handed the ball out of ST and told he is the 5th starter unless he shows otherwise.

 

Baker has essentially done that with Williams since he was brought up, but has never really done that with Mitre, IIRC.

 

[sorry for the edit, but having the not in the sentence is kind of critical to the point ;).]

[CuseCubFan69]

Okay, I'm not saying this is you or anything, but why would people want to drive Maddux out of town but give Mitre a chance at the rotation? I know the salaries are in different galaxies, and I've been arguing mostly for the "Maddux isn't great anymore" side of things in the "Vesting" thread, but c'mon! I'll take 3 Maddux's in my rotation before I give Mitre a shot. I'm not sure how many innings a pitcher needs to show what he's got at the major league level, but 117 2/3 so far from Sergio have been awful

I think it is a problem with confidence. Mitre has [edit] not [/edit] been handed the ball and told "you're in the rotation". He has always been a replacement for injured pitchers, spot starter, or temporary rotation stop-gap.

 

I wonder how he would perform if he was handed the ball out of ST and told he is the 5th starter unless he shows otherwise.

 

Baker has essentially done that with Williams since he was brought up, but has never really done that with Mitre, IIRC.

 

[sorry for the edit, but having the not in the sentence is kind of critical to the point ;).]

 

I agree. I do think that Williams is a better pitcher though.

[dalgreen]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

 

I just don't get hung up on our minor leaguers as others do. Mitre has shown me no development at all from his first time with the Cubs and now. You'd think by now he'd show some sort of improvement or at the very least not be known as just a question mark. Regarding success at AAA, I think that can become irrelevant after some time. I just don't see why he's not in the rotation by now, or at least the sixth man other than he's just not that good.

 

When a team "thinks" it's in a pennant race like the Cubs do they don't really have the time to fiddle around with a pitcher like Mitre. I'm not saying he's the best pitcher out there but he has some value and IMO in time he will be a decent 4 or 5 guy for a team that has the patience to let him have his ups and downs and gain confidence. I do understand what you're saying and I just think Mitre is a player that is at the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, not dominating but a functional 4 or 5 guy.

 

As long as he's a #4 or #5 on another team I'd be fine with it. He is a guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time, but he created the situation. As I see it now going into 2006, he'd be behind Williams, Rusch, Hill, Nolasco and Pinto (I could add Guzman to the list, but it's long enough already) for a spot in the rotation. Two years ago no one would've thought he would fall that far behind. If we deal him and he becomes a great talent, so be it. I doubt it, but so be it.

[Derwood]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

 

I just don't get hung up on our minor leaguers as others do. Mitre has shown me no development at all from his first time with the Cubs and now. You'd think by now he'd show some sort of improvement or at the very least not be known as just a question mark. Regarding success at AAA, I think that can become irrelevant after some time. I just don't see why he's not in the rotation by now, or at least the sixth man other than he's just not that good.

 

When a team "thinks" it's in a pennant race like the Cubs do they don't really have the time to fiddle around with a pitcher like Mitre. I'm not saying he's the best pitcher out there but he has some value and IMO in time he will be a decent 4 or 5 guy for a team that has the patience to let him have his ups and downs and gain confidence. I do understand what you're saying and I just think Mitre is a player that is at the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, not dominating but a functional 4 or 5 guy.

 

As long as he's a #4 or #5 on another team I'd be fine with it. He is a guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time, but he created the situation. As I see it now going into 2006, he'd be behind Williams, Rusch, Hill, Nolasco and Pinto (I could add Guzman to the list, but it's long enough already) for a spot in the rotation. Two years ago no one would've thought he would fall that far behind. If we deal him and he becomes a great talent, so be it. I doubt it, but so be it.

 

And if the Cubs make a splash in free agency and add a veteran starter, none of those guys will make the rotation.

[CuseCubFan69]

As long as he's a #4 or #5 on another team I'd be fine with it. He is a guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time, but he created the situation. As I see it now going into 2006, he'd be behind Williams, Rusch, Hill, Nolasco and Pinto (I could add Guzman to the list, but it's long enough already) for a spot in the rotation. Two years ago no one would've thought he would fall that far behind. If we deal him and he becomes a great talent, so be it. I doubt it, but so be it.

 

Behind Z, Prior, Wood (if he can pitch) and Maddux it's anybodies guess who will be the 5th and 6th guys. I think the first two are really the only definate guys that the Cubs can count on right now and what direction Hendry will go will be anybodys guess. He could make a huge trade and move a few of those minor league pitchers to bring in a slugger and/or he could sign a free agent pitcher.

[cubweiser03]

I agree im done with him. Trade him for younger prospects and free up that space on the 40 man roster. He isnt a serviceable reliever and is behind too guys for a spot in the rotation. Therefore all he is doing is taking up space on the 40 man for someone who can be of use to the major league club. If he gets swept away via the Rule V adios muchacho.

[biittner77]

I agree im done with him. Trade him for younger prospects and free up that space on the 40 man roster. He isnt a serviceable reliever and is behind too guys for a spot in the rotation. Therefore all he is doing is taking up space on the 40 man for someone who can be of use to the major league club. If he gets swept away via the Rule V adios muchacho.

 

Mitre is already on the 40 man roster so the Cubs don't have to worry about him as far as the rule 5 draft goes. In order for Mitre to be removed from the 40 man roster he'd have to clear waivers. I can't see that happening.

 

Mitre is out of options so he's either brought in to compete for 5th starter or traded. I'd guess they'd trade him before Williams or Hill. I'd think there'd be some interest there.

[Backtobanks]

Maybe, just maybe, it's not a good idea to use him as a reliever because of the nature of his stuff. Of course, none of us were saying that months ago when he first went to the pen.

 

I'm not trying to defend Mitre, but Baker needs to figure out how he's going to use these guys and then do it. Mitre has started and relieved at AAA and with the Cubs. Rusch has bounced between the bullpen and starting. Dusty had Dempster starting until he figured out that Dempster should be the closer. Figure out a role for each of these guys and then stick to it.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Mitre is worthless. Like Koronka, Macias and Wellemeyer, he needs to be dumped off the 40-man this offseason before the Rule 5 draft to protect more valuable/promising young players. You try and trade him first before that date arrives, but if you can't, you waive him. Big deal.

 

I mean honestly, which would piss you off more--the Cubs waive Mitre and someone picks him up, or the Cubs leave someone like Nolasco or Sing off the 40-man and someone claims them in the draft. I know which one would make ME angrier.

 

Buh-bye, Fez.

[rocket]

They should have traded him after the complete game shutout.

 

And I mean immediately after.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

I just don't get hung up on our minor leaguers as others do. Mitre has shown me no development at all from his first time with the Cubs and now. You'd think by now he'd show some sort of improvement or at the very least not be known as just a question mark. Regarding success at AAA, I think that can become irrelevant after some time. I just don't see why he's not in the rotation by now, or at least the sixth man other than he's just not that good.

 

I think it was Raisin and Raw who took me to task on Mitre much earlier in the season. They made good points. I've just never seen enough to get excited.

 

Of course, I also carried the Bobby Brownlie banner until he gutted me with its flag pole.

 

Heh, I think it was both of us. Mitre is what he his. At his best, he's a 4-5 starter, he's obviously ineffective when his sinker isn't working. I also think it's ridiculously stupid to use a pitcher like Mitre out of the pen, that's just asking him to fail.

 

I completely agree with Rocket, especially with guys like Rich Hill coming up a bit later. Sergio's trade value was never higher.

 

I think the Cubs will be trading him or Wellemeyer this offseason since they both have to make the 25-man next April or risk being lost.

[Jon]

Mitre the starter and Mitre the bullpen pitcher are two completely different ballplayers. He needs innings and has to use his sinker, not throw a big curve ball nearly as often as his fastball in an inning of work. You might as well just not pitch him, because from the very beginning, it was painfully obvious that putting/keeping him in the bullpen was going to completely kill his trade value. I'd much rather see Mitre and Hill piggybacking in Rusch's spot.

 

This is one of my biggest criticisms of Hendry this year. Many people on here knew what was going to happen with the move to the bullpen before it happened. Not only did Jim ignore or not put as much importance on the obvious, but he has continued to keep him there. It's not good for the organization, it's not good for the team, and it's not good for Mitre.

[abuck1220]

I'd much rather see Mitre and Hill piggybacking in Rusch's spot.

 

obviously, i would too. but it's never gonna happen for a few reasons.

 

1) baker refuses to accept the fact that the cubs are toast. and he will continue to refuse to accept it until the cubs are 10 out with 9 to play...heck, he may even hang in there at that point.

 

2) rusch followed up four turds with a gem in st. louis, and everybody knows that with dusty the good stays in his memory longer than the bad when it comes to veterans.

 

3) rusch has already launched a pre-emptive whine attack on possibly being sent back to the pen next season. so i can only assume he'll whine about getting sent there this season. and i don't think dusty or hendry want to have an iffy clubhouse...which is why farnsworth is throwing up zeros in atlanta instead of chicago.

 

when rusch sucked it up for four starts and hill pitched well in AAA, i really had hope that rich would get 3-4 starts in september. at this point, i'd just be happy to see him get 3-4 innings.

[Satch80]

Mitre is effective when he keeps the ball down and gets ahead.

But the MLB pitching graveyard is full of pitchers that are good when they hit their spots and pitch ahead in the count.

 

The problem is, they can't do it consistently. That's Mitre'sproblem and it doesn't look to be getting better.

[vaball]

It's a shame because he had such good nickname potential.

[UK1679666180]

1) baker refuses to accept the fact that the cubs are toast. and he will continue to refuse to accept it until the cubs are 10 out with 9 to play...heck, he may even hang in there at that point.

 

Houston/Florida goes 9-9, the Cubs will have to go 16-2.

 

You say toast

I say yep

[Derwood]

1) baker refuses to accept the fact that the cubs are toast. and he will continue to refuse to accept it until the cubs are 10 out with 9 to play...heck, he may even hang in there at that point.

 

Houston/Florida goes 9-9, the Cubs will have to go 16-2.

 

You say toast

I say yep

 

So you're saying there's a chance? :roll:

 

If the Astros/Marlins go 0-18 (impossible since they play each other, but you know, we're in a fantasy world here) then the Cubs would only have to go 7-11

[bukie]

1) baker refuses to accept the fact that the cubs are toast. and he will continue to refuse to accept it until the cubs are 10 out with 9 to play...heck, he may even hang in there at that point.

 

Houston/Florida goes 9-9, the Cubs will have to go 16-2.

 

You say toast

I say yep

 

Well, if the Cubs did go 16-2, there's a solid chance Houston goes at best 9-9...

 

...of course, Florida or Philly will win the wildcard in that case.