Mitre is terrible, period. End of story.

[Derwood]

Last night's debacle has put the final nail in Mitre's coffin for me. I'm sick and tired of hearing people champion him for the 5th starter spot, or putting him in as a key piece to any trade proposal.

 

MITRE IS TERRIBLE

 

He is a lukewarm body taking up valuable 40-man roster space, and, were I running the team, would be the first cut this off season to help ease the Rule V headache that's rapidly approaching.

 

In 117 2/3 IP at the Major league level, he has allowed 147 Hits, 82 earned runs, 18 HR, 44 BB's, just 74 K's, a 4-10 record, 6.33 ERA (this year's 5.75 is his best year to date), a .307 OBA and a .854 OpOPS.

 

I don't give a fig what his numbers at AAA were. It's a smoke screen. Fools Gold. Smoke and mirrors. Whatever cliche you want to give it, it all adds up to the fact that Mitre's utter lack of ability is far beyond acceptable for a "playoff contending" team.

 

So please, Jim Hendry, cut him, shoot him, deport him, sell him into slavery, whatever you need to do to get him off the team (he has no trade value, so sorry about your luck there).

 

And let him take Macias with him.

 

 

/rant?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Maybe, just maybe, it's not a good idea to use him as a reliever because of the nature of his stuff. Of course, none of us were saying that months ago when he first went to the pen.

[dalgreen]

Last night's debacle has put the final nail in Mitre's coffin for me. I'm sick and tired of hearing people champion him for the 5th starter spot, or putting him in as a key piece to any trade proposal.

 

MITRE IS TERRIBLE

 

He is a lukewarm body taking up valuable 40-man roster space, and, were I running the team, would be the first cut this off season to help ease the Rule V headache that's rapidly approaching.

 

In 117 2/3 IP at the Major league level, he has allowed 147 Hits, 82 earned runs, 18 HR, 44 BB's, just 74 K's, a 4-10 record, 6.33 ERA (this year's 5.75 is his best year to date), a .307 OBA and a .854 OpOPS.

 

I don't give a fig what his numbers at AAA were. It's a smoke screen. Fools Gold. Smoke and mirrors. Whatever cliche you want to give it, it all adds up to the fact that Mitre's utter lack of ability is far beyond acceptable for a "playoff contending" team.

 

So please, Jim Hendry, cut him, shoot him, deport him, sell him into slavery, whatever you need to do to get him off the team (he has no trade value, so sorry about your luck there).

 

And let him take Macias with him.

 

 

/rant?

 

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

[CuseCubFan69]

I would like to see Mitre pitch for a team like KC for a whole year and see how he does. I'm curious if MLB hitters have him figured out or if it is his confidence that changes once he is pitching against the big boys.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him.

 

Florida, complete game shutout.

[CuseCubFan69]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

[Magnetic Curses]

he can take wuertz with him, too.

[CuseCubFan69]

he can take wuertz with him, too.

 

Why? He's a functional bullpen pitcher if he's used correctly.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I hope this is alright with you Derwood. I figured this would be a more appropriate place for this post, even though it's quoting you from the game thread.

 

Whatever effectiveness Mitre brings to the Cubs is most definitely as a starter, why hasn't Baker figure that out yet?

 

You have the numbers to back that up? Because I would argue that Mitre sucks in every capacity involving a baseball, glove and uniform

 

Mitre this year was Jekyll and Hyde as a starter. In 3 of his starts he threw 23 IP, 0.78 ERA, 0.60 WHIP. In his other 4 starts he had 23.1 IP, 8.87 ERA, 1.80 WHIP.

 

Last year was similar in 9 starts. Good Mitre: 26.2 IP, 2.70 ERA, 1.23 WHIP in 4 starts. Bad Mitre: 23.1 IP, 10.03 ERA, 2.22 WHIP.

 

There just doesn't seem to be any middle ground. It's either quality start(or better), or disaster start.

[Derwood]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

 

A lot of success?

 

2005: 70 2/3 IP, 5-6, 4.33 ERA, 72 H, 22 BB, 55 K's, 1.33 WHIP

[CuseCubFan69]

I hope this is alright with you Derwood. I figured this would be a more appropriate place for this post, even though it's quoting you from the game thread.

 

Whatever effectiveness Mitre brings to the Cubs is most definitely as a starter, why hasn't Baker figure that out yet?

 

You have the numbers to back that up? Because I would argue that Mitre sucks in every capacity involving a baseball, glove and uniform

 

Mitre this year was Jekyll and Hyde as a starter. In 3 of his starts he threw 23 IP, 0.78 ERA, 0.60 WHIP. In his other 4 starts he had 23.1 IP, 8.87 ERA, 1.80 WHIP.

 

Last year was similar in 9 starts. Good Mitre: 26.2 IP, 2.70 ERA, 1.23 WHIP in 4 starts. Bad Mitre: 23.1 IP, 10.03 ERA, 2.22 WHIP.

 

There just doesn't seem to be any middle ground. It's either quality start(or better), or disaster start.

 

When Mitre gets lit up what happens? I mean to say is it HR's and bullets right away or a couple of bleeders that drop or get through and then he gets ripped? Also, how is he with men on base....maybe holding runners on or just pitching from the stretch is a problem for him.

[TheDude]

There just doesn't seem to be any middle ground. It's either quality start(or better), or disaster start.

Maybe I am oversimplifying, because I can't claim to recall these games in specifics, but that sure seems like a classic case of a low-zone pitcher dominating when he stays low, and getting lit up when he doesn't.

 

Send Mitre to Atlanta. He'll win 15 games.

 

[edit - maybe in AAA he isn't nervous, and stays down most of the time. Nerves get to him in the bigs and he overthrows, raising his zone.[/edit]

[CuseCubFan69]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

 

A lot of success?

 

2005: 70 2/3 IP, 5-6, 4.33 ERA, 72 H, 22 BB, 55 K's, 1.33 WHIP

 

Was that what he did at Iowa? As I said, correct me if I'm wrong and those numbers are not great by any means....average yes but not good. He has to get those walks down to be effective. How was his Homerun rate?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I hope this is alright with you Derwood. I figured this would be a more appropriate place for this post, even though it's quoting you from the game thread.

 

Whatever effectiveness Mitre brings to the Cubs is most definitely as a starter, why hasn't Baker figure that out yet?

 

You have the numbers to back that up? Because I would argue that Mitre sucks in every capacity involving a baseball, glove and uniform

 

Mitre this year was Jekyll and Hyde as a starter. In 3 of his starts he threw 23 IP, 0.78 ERA, 0.60 WHIP. In his other 4 starts he had 23.1 IP, 8.87 ERA, 1.80 WHIP.

 

Last year was similar in 9 starts. Good Mitre: 26.2 IP, 2.70 ERA, 1.23 WHIP in 4 starts. Bad Mitre: 23.1 IP, 10.03 ERA, 2.22 WHIP.

 

There just doesn't seem to be any middle ground. It's either quality start(or better), or disaster start.

 

When Mitre gets lit up what happens? I mean to say is it HR's and bullets right away or a couple of bleeders that drop or get through and then he gets ripped? Also, how is he with men on base....maybe holding runners on or just pitching from the stretch is a problem for him.

 

It wouldn't appear that holding runners or pitching from the stretch is too much of a problem. In each of the last two years he's had better numbers with men on base than with the bases empty.

[Derwood]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

 

A lot of success?

 

2005: 70 2/3 IP, 5-6, 4.33 ERA, 72 H, 22 BB, 55 K's, 1.33 WHIP

 

Was that what he did at Iowa? As I said, correct me if I'm wrong and those numbers are not great by any means....average yes but not good. He has to get those walks down to be effective. How was his Homerun rate?

 

Yes, sorry, Iowa. Extended stats were hard to come by. minorleaguebaseball.com seems to remove player stats lines from the site when they are promoted (or at least removes the link). mlb.com no longer has minor league stats in the player bios (and the minor league stats link back to MiLB's site.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

 

A lot of success?

 

2005: 70 2/3 IP, 5-6, 4.33 ERA, 72 H, 22 BB, 55 K's, 1.33 WHIP

 

Was that what he did at Iowa? As I said, correct me if I'm wrong and those numbers are not great by any means....average yes but not good. He has to get those walks down to be effective. How was his Homerun rate?

 

Mitre at Iowa

 

Age 23, 2004: 2.98 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 8.33 K/9, 3.48 BB/9, 0.79 HR/9

Age 24, 2005: 4.33 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, 7.00 K/9, 2.80 BB/9, 0.63 HR/9

[Derwood]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

 

A lot of success?

 

2005: 70 2/3 IP, 5-6, 4.33 ERA, 72 H, 22 BB, 55 K's, 1.33 WHIP

 

Was that what he did at Iowa? As I said, correct me if I'm wrong and those numbers are not great by any means....average yes but not good. He has to get those walks down to be effective. How was his Homerun rate?

 

Mitre at Iowa

 

Age 23, 2004: 2.98 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 8.33 K/9, 3.48 BB/9, 0.79 HR/9

Age 24, 2005: 4.33 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, 7.00 K/9, 2.80 BB/9, 0.63 HR/9

 

OBA must have gone up then. If his WHIP stayed the same, his walks decreased, and his HR allowd is down, the 1.50 inflation in ERA has to be attributed to something. More hits? Higher OpOPS?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There just doesn't seem to be any middle ground. It's either quality start(or better), or disaster start.

Maybe I am oversimplifying, because I can't claim to recall these games in specifics, but that sure seems like a classic case of a low-zone pitcher dominating when he stays low, and getting lit up when he doesn't.

 

Send Mitre to Atlanta. He'll win 15 games.

 

[edit - maybe in AAA he isn't nervous, and stays down most of the time. Nerves get to him in the bigs and he overthrows, raising his zone.[/edit]

 

Yeah, it seems to be either a matter of "does he have the good sinker" and/or "is he able to locate the sinker". When he does, he's great, when he doesn't, he's BP.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Mitre at Iowa

 

Age 23, 2004: 2.98 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 8.33 K/9, 3.48 BB/9, 0.79 HR/9

Age 24, 2005: 4.33 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, 7.00 K/9, 2.80 BB/9, 0.63 HR/9

 

OBA must have gone up then. If his WHIP stayed the same, his walks decreased, and his HR allowd is down, the 1.50 inflation in ERA has to be attributed to something. More hits? Higher OpOPS?

 

Could be a number of things with only 70 innings. More hits, more XBH, worse defense, bad luck with placement of hits, relievers letting in more of his runners after he leaves, etc.

[CuseCubFan69]

Mitre at Iowa

 

Age 23, 2004: 2.98 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 8.33 K/9, 3.48 BB/9, 0.79 HR/9

Age 24, 2005: 4.33 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, 7.00 K/9, 2.80 BB/9, 0.63 HR/9

 

Thank you. K's and BB's went down thus lowering his pitch count. I still think he could be a 4 or 5 starter but would require patience.

[dalgreen]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

 

I just don't get hung up on our minor leaguers as others do. Mitre has shown me no development at all from his first time with the Cubs and now. You'd think by now he'd show some sort of improvement or at the very least not be known as just a question mark. Regarding success at AAA, I think that can become irrelevant after some time. I just don't see why he's not in the rotation by now, or at least the sixth man other than he's just not that good.

[Derwood]

Mitre at Iowa

 

Age 23, 2004: 2.98 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 8.33 K/9, 3.48 BB/9, 0.79 HR/9

Age 24, 2005: 4.33 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, 7.00 K/9, 2.80 BB/9, 0.63 HR/9

 

Thank you. K's and BB's went down thus lowering his pitch count. I still think he could be a 4 or 5 starter but would require patience.

 

Okay, I'm not saying this is you or anything, but why would people want to drive Maddux out of town but give Mitre a chance at the rotation? I know the salaries are in different galaxies, and I've been arguing mostly for the "Maddux isn't great anymore" side of things in the "Vesting" thread, but c'mon! I'll take 3 Maddux's in my rotation before I give Mitre a shot. I'm not sure how many innings a pitcher needs to show what he's got at the major league level, but 117 2/3 so far from Sergio have been awful

[JC]

 

I just don't get hung up on our minor leaguers as others do. Mitre has shown me no development at all from his first time with the Cubs and now. You'd think by now he'd show some sort of improvement or at the very least not be known as just a question mark. Regarding success at AAA, I think that can become irrelevant after some time. I just don't see why he's not in the rotation by now, or at least the sixth man other than he's just not that good.

 

I think it was Raisin and Raw who took me to task on Mitre much earlier in the season. They made good points. I've just never seen enough to get excited.

 

Of course, I also carried the Bobby Brownlie banner until he gutted me with its flag pole.

[Chocolate Milk]

I was walking down Illinois Ave. with my girlfriend and I saw Sergio Mitre coming out of the AMC.

 

Me: "Holy "poop!" I think that was Sergio Mitre!"

Girlfriend: "Who?"

Me: "Some loser who pitches for the Cubs."

GF: "Oh."

Me: "Let's get some ice cream!"

 

I figured that this was a relevant story to tell in this thread. I hope everyone got as much out of it as I did.

[CuseCubFan69]

Although Mitre was used wrong last night by Baker, I have long been through with Mitre. Other than straight loyalty, I don't see what some posters still see in Mitre. I have seen no real improvement from him from last year or the year before. Other than the two dominating starts against Toronto, and the other team escapes me, I have not been hopeful of him. The loyalty of fans to him reminds me of the loyalty shown to Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him.

 

I just don't get hung up on our minor leaguers as others do. Mitre has shown me no development at all from his first time with the Cubs and now. You'd think by now he'd show some sort of improvement or at the very least not be known as just a question mark. Regarding success at AAA, I think that can become irrelevant after some time. I just don't see why he's not in the rotation by now, or at least the sixth man other than he's just not that good.

 

When a team "thinks" it's in a pennant race like the Cubs do they don't really have the time to fiddle around with a pitcher like Mitre. I'm not saying he's the best pitcher out there but he has some value and IMO in time he will be a decent 4 or 5 guy for a team that has the patience to let him have his ups and downs and gain confidence. I do understand what you're saying and I just think Mitre is a player that is at the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, not dominating but a functional 4 or 5 guy.