Jaxon Wiggins to the Iowa IL

[Outshined_One]

It's also worth pointing out that a college power pitching prospect with no history of arm/shoulder issues is basically a unicorn in the current era.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

7 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

It's also worth pointing out that a college power pitching prospect with no history of arm/shoulder issues is basically a unicorn in the current era.

100%.

We used to get potential top 10 picks like Jeff Hoffman, Lucas Giolito and Walker Buehler falling because of their health. Now, they don’t even fall.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

[Tryptamine]

This is going to be a completely lost year for Wiggins and Conrad, isn't it?

[Jason Ross]

2 hours ago, CaliforniaRaisin said:

 

[gflore34]

13 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

This is going to be a completely lost year for Wiggins and Conrad, isn't it?

Wrote in another thread, back injuries are very serious and fickle, there might be a better chance Conrad' done before he ever got started.

[JBears79]

14 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

This is going to be a completely lost year for Wiggins and Conrad, isn't it?

Yep. This year has been an absolute disaster for pitching.  The Conrad pick was a good pick at the time, and I still believe he can be a good player, once healthy, but Jed and DK really need to stop taking pre injured players, especially pitchers. I mean in 2022 didn't they take like 8 pitchers that had just had Tommy John? The strategy isnt working and were seeing it in real time right now with the complete lack of impact pitching prospects at higher levels though I will admit there are some promising arms in the lower levels.

Wicks was a bust, Horton is probably a future high end reliever as I do not trust him to stay healthy ever again. Wiggins, the jury is still out on, but this is an organization that is clueless on how to develop pitchers. I mean they have had what 4 homegrown pitchers reach the bigs since 2019? 

Also, Ive been extremely unimpressed with Zombro so far.

[Jason Ross]

43 minutes ago, JBears79 said:

Yep. This year has been an absolute disaster for pitching.  The Conrad pick was a good pick at the time, and I still believe he can be a good player, once healthy, but Jed and DK really need to stop taking pre injured players, especially pitchers. I mean in 2022 didn't they take like 8 pitchers that had just had Tommy John? The strategy isnt working and were seeing it in real time right now with the complete lack of impact pitching prospects at higher levels though I will admit there are some promising arms in the lower levels.

Wicks was a bust, Horton is probably a future high end reliever as I do not trust him to stay healthy ever again. Wiggins, the jury is still out on, but this is an organization that is clueless on how to develop pitchers. I mean they have had what 4 homegrown pitchers reach the bigs since 2019? 

Also, Ive been extremely unimpressed with Zombro so far.

So, a few things:

1. Conrad's back injury has likely nothing to do with his shoulder injury. You can't blame them for this one. If we're going to exclude anyone who was hurt the season prior in drafting terms, then we wouldn't have taken Hartshorn, either.

2. The Cubs have done a good job, IMO, with pitching development. I know we want to see a steady flow of ace SP's, but let's really take stock, especially since Zombro arrived:
- Cade Horton is hurt now, but he was so good last year that he finished second in RoY voting. Sucks he got hurt, but hey, that's what pitches do. His changeup development and sinker development at the MLB level especially was impressive.

- Jaxon Wiggins was another pitcher fans universally complained about on draft day and developed big-time last year. Sucks he is hurt, but again...pitchers who throw 100mph do this.

- Don't forget Daniel Palencia. He went from "guy who didn't make MLB Opening Day" to "Lockdown closer in WBC" in 365 days. 

- And this doesn't take into stock all of the development they did with guys like Drew Pomeranz, Brad Keller, and Jameson Taillon's kick changeup that seemingly bought him another year of MLB relevance. 

- Don't forget Kaleb Wing's solid start, Brooks Caple having a good year, Mason McGuire is popping with stuff...

I get it, right now, it feels like the pitching is a dumpster fire, but I don't think it's fair to blame Tyler Zombro for that. And it isn't like this is a Cub-specific thing. Look around the MLB. Who isn't dealing with a rash of pitching injuries? Atlanta lost what felt like a full rotation in ST. Tarik Skubal and Zack Wheeler have both gone down. The Twins have had tons of injuries. Hunter Greene hasn't thrown a pitch...this is what high level velo guys do, It's what pitchers do.

Jury will be out on exactly what Zombro is doing...but I don't see any reason to not have encouragement unless we are unfairly blaming him for injuries.

[Outshined_One]

1 hour ago, JBears79 said:

Yep. This year has been an absolute disaster for pitching.  far.

At the major league level, absolutely. In the minors, they're better off now than they were this time a year ago, as hard as it seems to believe. We've gone from trying to make Nick Dean a thing to having a strong cadre of lower level guys who could find themselves on Top 100 lists (particularly Wing and McGwire) a year from now.

[gflore34]

16 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

At the major league level, absolutely. In the minors, they're better off now than they were this time a year ago, as hard as it seems to believe. We've gone from trying to make Nick Dean a thing to having a strong cadre of lower level guys who could find themselves on Top 100 lists (particularly Wing and McGwire) a year from now.

Saw some video of him, looked good, with stuff popping, not your seemingly typical Cub soft tosser spinner of the ball.

[JBears79]

9 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

At the major league level, absolutely. In the minors, they're better off now than they were this time a year ago, as hard as it seems to believe. We've gone from trying to make Nick Dean a thing to having a strong cadre of lower level guys who could find themselves on Top 100 lists (particularly Wing and McGwire) a year from now.

Agreed. Wing and McGwire have been impressive so far so there could be a wave coming but I have little faith in it right now.

[JBears79]

1 hour ago, Jason Ross said:

So, a few things:

1. Conrad's back injury has likely nothing to do with his shoulder injury. You can't blame them for this one. If we're going to exclude anyone who was hurt the season prior in drafting terms, then we wouldn't have taken Hartshorn, either.

2. The Cubs have done a good job, IMO, with pitching development. I know we want to see a steady flow of ace SP's, but let's really take stock, especially since Zombro arrived:
- Cade Horton is hurt now, but he was so good last year that he finished second in RoY voting. Sucks he got hurt, but hey, that's what pitches do. His changeup development and sinker development at the MLB level especially was impressive.

- Jaxon Wiggins was another pitcher fans universally complained about on draft day and developed big-time last year. Sucks he is hurt, but again...pitchers who throw 100mph do this.

- Don't forget Daniel Palencia. He went from "guy who didn't make MLB Opening Day" to "Lockdown closer in WBC" in 365 days. 

- And this doesn't take into stock all of the development they did with guys like Drew Pomeranz, Brad Keller, and Jameson Taillon's kick changeup that seemingly bought him another year of MLB relevance. 

- Don't forget Kaleb Wing's solid start, Brooks Caple having a good year, Mason McGuire is popping with stuff...

I get it, right now, it feels like the pitching is a dumpster fire, but I don't think it's fair to blame Tyler Zombro for that. And it isn't like this is a Cub-specific thing. Look around the MLB. Who isn't dealing with a rash of pitching injuries? Atlanta lost what felt like a full rotation in ST. Tarik Skubal and Zack Wheeler have both gone down. The Twins have had tons of injuries. Hunter Greene hasn't thrown a pitch...this is what high level velo guys do, It's what pitchers do.

Jury will be out on exactly what Zombro is doing...but I don't see any reason to not have encouragement unless we are unfairly blaming him for injuries.

Good points. Dont disagree with them and I am not 100% blaming Zombro. He has time with me, but just color me unimpressed similar to how I am with Cabrera (who I still believe in). I'm just so apathetic with Cubs pitching development.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

7 hours ago, JBears79 said:

Yep. This year has been an absolute disaster for pitching.  The Conrad pick was a good pick at the time, and I still believe he can be a good player, once healthy, but Jed and DK really need to stop taking pre injured players, especially pitchers. I mean in 2022 didn't they take like 8 pitchers that had just had Tommy John? The strategy isnt working and were seeing it in real time right now with the complete lack of impact pitching prospects at higher levels though I will admit there are some promising arms in the lower levels.

Wicks was a bust, Horton is probably a future high end reliever as I do not trust him to stay healthy ever again. Wiggins, the jury is still out on, but this is an organization that is clueless on how to develop pitchers. I mean they have had what 4 homegrown pitchers reach the bigs since 2019? 

Also, Ive been extremely unimpressed with Zombro so far.

Just an FYI - this coming draft will be Zombro's first overseeing the pitching portion (though he probably had some significant input on picks in 2025).

I'd argue the Cubs need to pick more high end (and likely injury prone) pitchers so you have a chance at more of them surviving injuries and normal draft failures. In 2024, they only picked 2 pitchers in the first 10 rounds.