Brewers (Priester) vs Cubs (Imanaga): 8/21/25, 1:20pm

[Jason Ross]

8 minutes ago, ILMindState said:

I don't get the Tucker hate, what did he do? Why is he getting boo'd and everyone shrugs their shoulders at everyone else who's in a slump. 

My assumption from discussions, most specifically on reddit is that many fans are upset that the team traded Isaac Parades, Cody Bellinger and Cam Smith to facilitate some of that (whether or not Bellinger was directly tied to Tucker or just fans perceive it to be that, you can be the judge). Even on the comments on articles here, there is a comparison to Bellinger constantly. And I don't think many people have really checked in on Cam Smith after he had a big series against us (they probably also don't notice Matt Shaw has been a better hitter on the year). I've seen a few times that Cam Smith is essentially the new Lou Brock trade. And despite him not signing a $400m deal yet, I think many people use those types of players to be angry at. And beyond that you have this allure of the big rookie behind him? 

When you add it all up, and the Cubs are struggling while the Brewers have surged past, I think Kyle Tucker is a perfect lightening rod for many. I don't agree with it myself, it's frankly ridiculous, but he's a good conduit for ire. 

[Cuzi]

The only thing I hate about the Kyle Tucker situation is that I fully expect him to be playing for another team next year and that is just totally unacceptable.

[WhyCantWeWin]

I wanted Brooks Lee bad in that draft 

[We Got The Whole 9]

A few factors: 

 

A lot of fans are not content with a WC and they are really antsy and upset about the division.

They did give up a lot, in hindsight, to open that space up for Tucker. 

Tucker has a 13 wRC+ this month. He took 2 days off and came back to another 0-fer with multiple groundouts. They are skeptical that he figured anything out in the cages. 

Bellinger has bounced back to 2023 form, and the fanbase absolutely loved him that year. He was versatile and obviously hit really well. If Bellinger hit in 2024 like he did in 2023 then Jed might not have made that trade in the first place.

They dont believe the Cubs will sign him. 

They dont like trading a 1st round pick. The Cubs would have kept Smith in the minors for a lot more development than the Astros. Fans definitely have not checked in on Cam for a while, I am sure. 

They could have put together a package for a TORP with Paredes and Smith, possibly.

[Bertz]

I was about to write something about Bellinger's home/road numbers but again this fanbase can't even process the impacts of the wind blowing in at Wrigley so what's the point

[DrCub]

2 hours ago, squally1313 said:

Assuming I did this right on Savant, here's what I have for Suzuki since 7/15 (which is essentially the ASB). Short answer: it looks really good. 

Damn that looks like some awful bad luck.  

[DrCub]

1 hour ago, Jason Ross said:

My assumption from discussions, most specifically on reddit is that many fans are upset that the team traded Isaac Parades, Cody Bellinger and Cam Smith to facilitate some of that (whether or not Bellinger was directly tied to Tucker or just fans perceive it to be that, you can be the judge). Even on the comments on articles here, there is a comparison to Bellinger constantly. And I don't think many people have really checked in on Cam Smith after he had a big series against us (they probably also don't notice Matt Shaw has been a better hitter on the year). I've seen a few times that Cam Smith is essentially the new Lou Brock trade. And despite him not signing a $400m deal yet, I think many people use those types of players to be angry at. And beyond that you have this allure of the big rookie behind him? 

When you add it all up, and the Cubs are struggling while the Brewers have surged past, I think Kyle Tucker is a perfect lightening rod for many. I don't agree with it myself, it's frankly ridiculous, but he's a good conduit for ire. 

Agree with everything you said.  I will add that I think another reason Tucker gets the hate and other players do not seem to as much; is that many viewed him as the missing piece or the “savior” so to speak for the offense, and that is what drives some people’s frustration.  Just my guess. 

[Backtobanks]

57 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

A few factors: 

 

A lot of fans are not content with a WC and they are really antsy and upset about the division.

They did give up a lot, in hindsight, to open that space up for Tucker. 

Tucker has a 13 wRC+ this month. He took 2 days off and came back to another 0-fer with multiple groundouts. They are skeptical that he figured anything out in the cages. 

Bellinger has bounced back to 2023 form, and the fanbase absolutely loved him that year. He was versatile and obviously hit really well. If Bellinger hit in 2024 like he did in 2023 then Jed might not have made that trade in the first place.

They dont believe the Cubs will sign him. 

They dont like trading a 1st round pick. The Cubs would have kept Smith in the minors for a lot more development than the Astros. Fans definitely have not checked in on Cam for a while, I am sure. 

They could have put together a package for a TORP with Paredes and Smith, possibly.

All of the bluster about Shaw being better than Smith, the point is that Smith is a year younger than Shaw and had less minor league experience than Shaw.  Both are still learning, but it will be interesting to see what Smith is capable of in a year or two.

[Geographyhater8888]

1 hour ago, DrCub said:

Agree with everything you said.  I will add that I think another reason Tucker gets the hate and other players do not seem to as much; is that many viewed him as the missing piece or the “savior” so to speak for the offense, and that is what drives some people’s frustration.  Just my guess. 

That should be the only reason why. He’s hit a wall for over a month and was brought in to prevent another may of 2024. Instead, he’s contributing to one even if it’s caused by injury. I don’t think it’s fair to hate him for that but the situation is extremely frustrating. 6 home runs since June. 

Edited August 22, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

All of the bluster about Shaw being better than Smith, the point is that Smith is a year younger than Shaw and had less minor league experience than Shaw.  Both are still learning, but it will be interesting to see what Smith is capable of in a year or two.

I’m not sure anyone has said Shaw is better than Smith. It has been said he is having a better year, currently. The people speaking up for Shaw are just saying maybe the Cubs arent idiots for trading Smith instead of him. Maybe Cam Smith isn’t the second coming of Lou Brock. Maybe he is just a guy who might become a decent player. Many had him pegged for superstardom and Shaw a bust. Obviously that can still happen. But I think now people are trying to make those who thought Smith was a star and Shaw a bust, that either can end up either way. I agree with you that it will be interesting to see what becomes of Smith. But the same can be said about Shaw. And I think that is the point for those supporting Shaw. 

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, Jason Ross said:

My assumption from discussions, most specifically on reddit is that many fans are upset that the team traded Isaac Parades, Cody Bellinger and Cam Smith to facilitate some of that (whether or not Bellinger was directly tied to Tucker or just fans perceive it to be that, you can be the judge). Even on the comments on articles here, there is a comparison to Bellinger constantly. And I don't think many people have really checked in on Cam Smith after he had a big series against us (they probably also don't notice Matt Shaw has been a better hitter on the year). I've seen a few times that Cam Smith is essentially the new Lou Brock trade. And despite him not signing a $400m deal yet, I think many people use those types of players to be angry at. And beyond that you have this allure of the big rookie behind him? 

When you add it all up, and the Cubs are struggling while the Brewers have surged past, I think Kyle Tucker is a perfect lightening rod for many. I don't agree with it myself, it's frankly ridiculous, but he's a good conduit for ire. 

I don't have any ill will towards Tucker at all, but as of this moment the Tucker trade and Bellinger dump have been a bust, hindsight being 20/20.  Can't predict a hand injury though.

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, Bertz said:

I was about to write something about Bellinger's home/road numbers but again this fanbase can't even process the impacts of the wind blowing in at Wrigley so what's the point

Statcast expected HR has Bellinger with 4 fewer HR at Wrigley.  Though I'm not sure if that factors wind or just dimensions.

Yankee stadium has helped Belli but it hasn't been crazy.

Edited August 22, 2025 by Stratos

[squally1313]

Adding a fairly obvious comment that Kyle Tucker is in no way responsible for the players that were traded for him, so having that be a factor for all the vitriol he's been getting makes less than zero sense.

[Bertz]

6 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Statcast expected HR has Bellinger with 4 fewer HR at Wrigley.  Though I'm not sure if that factors wild or just dimensions.

Yankee stadium has helped Belli but it hasn't been crazy.

There's more to offense than purely homeruns.  Bellinger has a 150 wRC+ at home and a 99 on the road.  I'm not going to do the thing people do with Rockies players where they try to double his road stats and say that's the real him but he, like Paredes, has moved to easily the best park in the league for his batted ball profile and has predictably benefitted.

[Stratos]

32 minutes ago, Bertz said:

There's more to offense than purely homeruns.  Bellinger has a 150 wRC+ at home and a 99 on the road.  I'm not going to do the thing people do with Rockies players where they try to double his road stats and say that's the real him but he, like Paredes, has moved to easily the best park in the league for his batted ball profile and has predictably benefitted.

Yes we know Paredes and Bellinger have benefited from their parks.  Bellinger's profile has also returned to around 2023 form though.  I just don't see how it makes up for 3b being a negative WAR hole in the first half, plus 2 more years of Paredes control and 5-6 of Smith.

They spent the cash savings on Bellinger on guys like Pressly, Brasier, and Turner and it just doesn't come out on top.  Even just looking at 2025 it can't be much better than a wash at best.

Edited August 22, 2025 by Stratos

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, Stratos said:

Yes we know Paredes and Bellinger have benefited from their parks.  I just don't see how it makes up for 3b being a negative WAR hole in the first half, plus 2 more years of Paredes control and 5-6 of Smith.

They spent the cash savings on Bellinger on guys like Pressly, Brasier, and Turner and it just doesn't come out on top.  Even just looking at 2025 it can't be much better than a wash at best.

Correction. They pocketed the savings on Bellinger. Had they spent the savings maybe they end up with Pivetta. But they decided to pocket money. I think what people are missing here is Bellinger was going to be traded regardless of them getting Tucker or not. This isn’t a question of Tucker or Bellinger. It is Tucker or sign Grichek or Joc Peterson. Ricketts wanted to hold money back this year. Bellinger would have never been part of that plan. Also, Paredes was pretty bad as a Cub. I doubt he would be any better than what Shaw has been this year. Wrigley is not a good place for Paredes. 

[Stratos]

2 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Correction. They pocketed the savings on Bellinger. Had they spent the savings maybe they end up with Pivetta. But they decided to pocket money. I think what people are missing here is Bellinger was going to be traded regardless of them getting Tucker or not. This isn’t a question of Tucker or Bellinger. It is Tucker or sign Grichek or Joc Peterson. Ricketts wanted to hold money back this year. Bellinger would have never been part of that plan. Also, Paredes was pretty bad as a Cub. I doubt he would be any better than what Shaw has been this year. Wrigley is not a good place for Paredes. 

Yes in a way they pocketed the savings.  But if they set the budget at say 220m and that's what Jed knew he had to work with they still save on swapping out Belli for Tucker and Paredes for Shaw.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Would Paredes and Smith+ have opened the door for Crochet? Something to consider.

[CubUgly]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

I’m not sure anyone has said Shaw is better than Smith. It has been said he is having a better year, currently. The people speaking up for Shaw are just saying maybe the Cubs arent idiots for trading Smith instead of him. Maybe Cam Smith isn’t the second coming of Lou Brock. Maybe he is just a guy who might become a decent player. Many had him pegged for superstardom and Shaw a bust. Obviously that can still happen. But I think now people are trying to make those who thought Smith was a star and Shaw a bust, that either can end up either way. I agree with you that it will be interesting to see what becomes of Smith. But the same can be said about Shaw. And I think that is the point for those supporting Shaw. 

Exactly - people - and I gotta say I was at times one -  were saying how much better Smith was than Shaw and another example of the FO mis-evaluating talent and keeping the wrong player out of two guys who were at the time playing the same position.   We just typically don't have the patience to let things play out but I think they will both end up being pretty good MLB players. 

[Rcal10]

19 hours ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Would Paredes and Smith+ have opened the door for Crochet? Something to consider.

If you are saying without Bellinger, than maybe. But who are they giving up for Crochett? That has to factor in too. Might be Paredes and Smith. So back to square one. Now no Bellinger and no Tucker. Also no Paredes and Smith. And he would have cost even more in assets. So maybe no Cassie too. 

Edited August 23, 2025 by Rcal10

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Stratos said:

Yes in a way they pocketed the savings.  But if they set the budget at say 220m and that's what Jed knew he had to work with they still save on swapping out Belli for Tucker and Paredes for Shaw.

I don’t understand. Bellinger and Paredes make more than Tucker and Shaw. If they kept Bellinger they probably wouldn’t have done much. IMO Bellinger was not a part of this team regardless of what they did elsewhere. They would have went with a cheaper FA outfielder. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

48 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

If you are saying without Bellinger, than maybe. But who are they giving up for Crochett? That has to factor in too. Might be Paredes and Smith. So back to square one. Now no Bellinger and no Tucker. Also no Paredes and Smith. And he would have cost even more in assets. So maybe no. Cassie too. 

I was asking if Paredes and Smith+ would have landed Crochet. And if we had kept Bellinger and not traded for Tucker, he only cost 10m more than Tucker.

[javy knows my name]

4 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

I was asking if Paredes and Smith+ would have landed Crochet. And if we had kept Bellinger and not traded for Tucker, he only cost 10m more than Tucker.

I'd rather have Tucker, the last two months notwithstanding 

[Backtobanks]

3 hours ago, squally1313 said:

Adding a fairly obvious comment that Kyle Tucker is in no way responsible for the players that were traded for him, so having that be a factor for all the vitriol he's been getting makes less than zero sense.

Then let's stop talking about Ernie Broglio.  🤣

[Rcal10]

16 hours ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

I was asking if Paredes and Smith+ would have landed Crochet. And if we had kept Bellinger and not traded for Tucker, he only cost 10m more than Tucker.

Both Crochett and Bellinger cost $10M more than Tucker. So if they kept Bellinger it would have costed them $10M more for Bellinger and then another $26M for Crochett. So $36M more to have Bellinger and Crochett on the team. That wasn’t going to happen. That is why I said if they didn’t have Bellinger maybe they could have had Crochett. But was he ever really an option? And as you said it would be more than Paredes and Smith to get him.