Cubs (Brown) vs Phillies (Luzardo): 6/11/25, 12:05pm

[Geographyhater8888]

12 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Also, counting today, since Shaw has come back (21 games) Turner, Brujan and Berti have had 40 PA. Of those 40, Turner (who they are not replacing) had 31 of them. So we are talking about 9 PA from Berti and Brujan in that time. Sure, if they were better maybe they would have a few more. But with the DH the bench becomes less important. 

Just spitballing here but what about Jake burger as a platoon option at 1B in place of Turner. He’d cost next to nothing and has a 786 OPS vs lefties. 
something has to give when in 25-30% of of games you have a starting lineup without Busch and a neutralized PCA.

he’s one guy who comes to mind as long as Texas continues to lose. 

[Geographyhater8888]

13 hours ago, Brian707 said:

The only way that matters is if they finish tied for 2nd as Division winner vs Philadelphia or NY Mets. Otherwise it’s just noise in a long baseball season.

Only divisional tie breakers will matter. Stack wins vs the Cardinals and brewers and that’ll require scoring more than 3 runs in 33 innings vs this gauntlet of pitchers and not putting 2 or less runs on the board bi weekly. Amaya has been greatly missed.

Edited June 12, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[BigbadB]

2 hours ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

Just spitballing here but what about Jake burger as a platoon option at 1B in place of Turner. He’d cost next to nothing and has a 786 OPS vs lefties. 
something has to give when in 25-30% of of games you have a starting lineup without Busch and a neutralized PCA.

he’s one guy who comes to mind as long as Texas continues to lose. 

How many different ways does it need to be explained to you that Turner isn't going anywhere? His veteran presence is even more valuable than his playing time. I can almost guarantee you that come playoff time, Turner will be a significant bat in crucial moments. And it was just pointed out only a few posts ago that Turner has been hitting at a .300 clip over his last several games.

The bigger problem for Turner is any at bats vs. RHP. I have no problem with a straight platoon at 1b, but when the lefty starter gets pulled for a RH reliever, bring in Busch. Turner's splits against RHP is worse than Busch against LHP. so be mad at Counsell for being slow to replace Turner, as he has nearly the same amount of at bats vs. RHP as he does LHP.

I'm not the slightest bit enamored with Berti or Brujan, but what they do provide on the bench is speed. That is more valuable to me than a more seasoned veteran bat who plays once every 2 or 3 weeks. Speed is valuable in every game. Turner and the catchers not named McGuire are slugs on the base paths. They are easily swapped out for a pinch runner in game winning situations. 

Sure, you could trade Jonathan Long for a better bench bat, but I'd like to see someone like him occupying Turner's role starting next year.

[Geographyhater8888]

25 minutes ago, BigbadB said:

How many different ways does it need to be explained to you that Turner isn't going anywhere? His veteran presence is even more valuable than his playing time. I can almost guarantee you that come playoff time, Turner will be a significant bat in crucial moments. And it was just pointed out only a few posts ago that Turner has been hitting at a .300 clip over his last several games.

The bigger problem for Turner is any at bats vs. RHP. I have no problem with a straight platoon at 1b, but when the lefty starter gets pulled for a RH reliever, bring in Busch. Turner's splits against RHP is worse than Busch against LHP. so be mad at Counsell for being slow to replace Turner, as he has nearly the same amount of at bats vs. RHP as he does LHP.

 

 

I'm not the slightest bit enamored with Berti or Brujan, but what they do provide on the bench is speed. That is more valuable to me than a more seasoned veteran bat who plays once every 2 or 3 weeks. Speed is valuable in every game. Turner and the catchers not named McGuire are slugs on the base paths. They are easily swapped out for a pinch runner in game winning situations. 

Sure, you could trade Jonathan Long for a better bench bat, but I'd like to see someone like him occupying Turner's role starting next year.

 

25 minutes ago, BigbadB said:

How many different ways does it need to be explained to you that Turner isn't going anywhere? His veteran presence is even more valuable than his playing time. I can almost guarantee you that come playoff time, Turner will be a significant bat in crucial moments. And it was just pointed out only a few posts ago that Turner has been hitting at a .300 clip over his last several games.

The bigger problem for Turner is any at bats vs. RHP. I have no problem with a straight platoon at 1b, but when the lefty starter gets pulled for a RH reliever, bring in Busch. Turner's splits against RHP is worse than Busch against LHP. so be mad at Counsell for being slow to replace Turner, as he has nearly the same amount of at bats vs. RHP as he does LHP.

I'm not the slightest bit enamored with Berti or Brujan, but what they do provide on the bench is speed. That is more valuable to me than a more seasoned veteran bat who plays once every 2 or 3 weeks. Speed is valuable in every game. Turner and the catchers not named McGuire are slugs on the base paths. They are easily swapped out for a pinch runner in game winning situations. 

Sure, you could trade Jonathan Long for a better bench bat, but I'd like to see someone like him occupying Turner's role starting next year.

Get out of here. They’re not going to DFA a veteran clubhouse presence like Turner? Oh well. Anyways, if you’re trying to win now, it’s worth considering pulling some strings for an upgrade if Counsell insists on platooning Turner. I’m not exactly smitten by his 300 average in whatever sample size it is. 
I know there’s bigger needs but you would think this would be the easiest to need to address no matter how marginal because it wouldn’t cost you anything close to a top prospect. If Long is ready to hit ML pitching, he’ll certainly get some at bats reps too off the bench too. 

if they put any of that $30+ million slashed from the payroll back into the team in the offseason, this wouldn’t be a conversation.

Just a spitball idea, not one based off of some delusion that they’ll DFA Turner.

Edited June 12, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[CubUgly]

16 hours ago, Derwood said:

I casually looked at the Cubs record vs other playoff teams in 2016 and they were equally "meh"

yep, and again - in 2016 right around this time the team went on a very ugly 5-15 stretch. 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

 

Get out of here. They’re not going to DFA a veteran clubhouse presence like Turner? Oh well. Anyways, if you’re trying to win now, it’s worth considering pulling some strings for an upgrade if Counsell insists on platooning Turner. I’m not exactly smitten by his 300 average in whatever sample size it is. 
I know there’s bigger needs but you would think this would be the easiest to need to address no matter how marginal because it wouldn’t cost you anything close to a top prospect. If Long is ready to hit ML pitching, he’ll certainly get some at bats reps too off the bench too. 

if they put any of that $30+ million slashed from the payroll back into the team in the offseason, this wouldn’t be a conversation.

Just a spitball idea, not one based off of some delusion that they’ll DFA Turner.

 

Turner isn’t going away. It has been mentioned numerous times by several players, coaches and even the FO what a great teammate and presence Turner is in the team. Releasing him would upset the team chemistry and frankly he isn’t playing that poorly to be released. I am fine with that. But that doesn’t mean they can’t add Burger for Berti. With Shaw and Nico the Cubs could move guys around to give everyone a day off, every so often, and get AB for Burger at 3rd when they do sit a middle infielder.  And still have Turner. That said, I don’t think the focus is going to be on the bench. I think it is being overblown here as some major need.

If Long or any other guy at AAA is worthy of a spot on the bench it will come after the minor league season. So they can give them a full year there but still have them for the playoffs. I don’t think you will see both Berti and Brujan on the bench come playoff time. One will be replaced by another bat, whether through a trade or a promotion AFTER the minor league season ends. 

Edited June 12, 2025 by Rcal10

[NorthsideAvenger]

I think the Cubs should go back to using an opener for Ben Brown games.

[Bertz]

I think if you're expecting urgency on addressing the bench you're going to be sorely disappointed. 

- As others have pointed out Craig is barely using it because of how locked in the starting 9 is

- Given the talent down at Iowa, we don't necessarily need a strong bench to insulate the team from injury

- Turner is a big time vibes guy, and so particularly with a 5 game division lead you don't kick him to the curb to wring a couple extra runs out of that roster spot.  Also probably worth noting that his xwOBA says he's been a little unlucky

- Notable deals don't get done in June, you'd just be making eyewash junk in junk out moves such as the Jake Burger example

I do suspect the bench will look different as we get closer to the end of the year.  I think Brujan will be replaced by someone more useful.  And I think one of the kids will come up and take Turner's spot, with Turner going on the IL for something made up and shifting into more of a cheerleader/extra coach sort of role.  I'd be pretty surprised if either of those happen anytime soon though.

[gflore34]

1 hour ago, NorthsideAvenger said:

I think the Cubs should go back to using an opener for Ben Brown games.

He started against the Tigers vs. Skubal and did pretty damn well, went toe to toe with Skubal.  So, I don't know if user an opener is the answer, guess it couldn't hurt to try.  You can almost tell what you're going to get out of Brown from the first batter, if he's all over the place, he's going to put the Cubs in a hole, usually a big hole.  If he's not all over the place he's going to be real effective and, at times, dominating.  Don't know how the Cubs can go along with him as a starter hoping to hit the lottery once in a while.

Edited June 12, 2025 by gflore34

[Rcal10]

20 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I think if you're expecting urgency on addressing the bench you're going to be sorely disappointed. 

- As others have pointed out Craig is barely using it because of how locked in the starting 9 is

- Given the talent down at Iowa, we don't necessarily need a strong bench to insulate the team from injury

- Turner is a big time vibes guy, and so particularly with a 5 game division lead you don't kick him to the curb to wring a couple extra runs out of that roster spot.  Also probably worth noting that his xwOBA says he's been a little unlucky

- Notable deals don't get done in June, you'd just be making eyewash junk in junk out moves such as the Jake Burger example

I do suspect the bench will look different as we get closer to the end of the year.  I think Brujan will be replaced by someone more useful.  And I think one of the kids will come up and take Turner's spot, with Turner going on the IL for something made up and shifting into more of a cheerleader/extra coach sort of role.  I'd be pretty surprised if either of those happen anytime soon though.

 

I really don’t think Turner’s spot will be taken away. But I agree with everything else. It won’t be the same bench come September, but I think Turner and the back up catcher are safe. As you said, the minor league system and/or a trade later will be who replaces Berti and/or Brujan. It is just not that urgent a need. 

[Derwood]

Brown needs to go down to train with Taillon's change up guru this off season

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 minute ago, Derwood said:

Brown needs to go down to train with Taillon's change up guru this off season

From what I have read, the kick-change is a pretty easy pitch to learn. Brown just seems reticent to use it as much as he maybe should. They should probably tinker with his fastball. It doesn't grade well and gets clobbered.

[Derwood]

Are there a lot of 4-seam/curve/change starters out there right now? Feels like just about every good starter throws either a slider or a sinker

[chibears55]

3 hours ago, NorthsideAvenger said:

I think the Cubs should go back to using an opener for Ben Brown games.

Brown likely only has one more start maybe 2 before Imanaga returns , timeline for his return is the Cardinals if all goes well from here til then.

I think theyll send Brown back down to work on his changeup more 

[chibears55]

3 hours ago, Bertz said:

I think if you're expecting urgency on addressing the bench you're going to be sorely disappointed. 

- As others have pointed out Craig is barely using it because of how locked in the starting 9 is

- Given the talent down at Iowa, we don't necessarily need a strong bench to insulate the team from injury

- Turner is a big time vibes guy, and so particularly with a 5 game division lead you don't kick him to the curb to wring a couple extra runs out of that roster spot.  Also probably worth noting that his xwOBA says he's been a little unlucky

- Notable deals don't get done in June, you'd just be making eyewash junk in junk out moves such as the Jake Burger example

I do suspect the bench will look different as we get closer to the end of the year.  I think Brujan will be replaced by someone more useful.  And I think one of the kids will come up and take Turner's spot, with Turner going on the IL for something made up and shifting into more of a cheerleader/extra coach sort of role.  I'd be pretty surprised if either of those happen anytime soon though.

I dont expect Turner to be dumped either, but like you mention he could get that IL stint a couple times to bring someone up like Long to see what he can do.

I just think theyll look for another bat to replace either Berti and or Brujan in July, they don't need 2 guys whose best asset is just to run the bases.

The 9 guys are set but eventually especially in July and August you gotta start sitting them here and there to give them a breather and you'd hope they can do better then what they have, and especially if someone gotta miss a couple games for something minor.

I think a SP, bullpen arm, and a bench bat could be 3 deals Hoyer should make before the deadline not just to help get them a division title or to the playoffs but also to help them matchup and beat potential teams in the postseason like the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets

[Tom Emanski]

How likely is at that Brown is going to be able to develop a solid third pitch, like the Changeup he's working on, since he's nearly 26? I know it's not impossible, but it seems more likely than not...

[Derwood]

12 minutes ago, Tom Emanski said:

How likely is at that Brown is going to be able to develop a solid third pitch, like the Changeup he's working on, since he's nearly 26? I know it's not impossible, but it seems more likely than not...

Taillon is in his 30's and just massively upgraded his change up