Cubs (Boyd) vs Nationals (Gore): 6/4/25, 5:45pm

[gflore34]

16 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Brewers pounded Abbott today. Maybe don't start lefties against them. They just took Luzardo from a 2.15 to a 3.58 and now they took Abbott from 1.58 to 2.18.

 

They will be in the WC race. I hope they trade some decent prospects. But they're a machine and it's annoying. it doesn't matter if they constantly field a mediocre offense. They win a lot by their pitching infrastructure. 

Brewers must have seen the ball pretty well from Abbott today, that's key, if a team can pick up the ball, there's real good chance Abbott gets pounded.  Deception, while not the total on Abbott, does play a very large part in his effectiveness. 

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, squally1313 said:

Hey now, those are season long stats. When you drill down to his most recent stretch of games, say like, since the middle of May, then you'll realize over that stretch he's only had a .982 OPS.

If he wants $500M he is going to have to be better than that. Otherwise I don’t blame the Cubs for letting him walk. BTW, for those who are slow to sarcasm, this is sarcasm. Cubs need to sign this guy, PERIOD. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

I probably should have just said rest or reprieve. He's played every game and I had just read an article that said the team thinks he's been playing injured. 

[Jason Ross]

1 hour ago, BKHoo said:

Gore has to be almost off limits.  Lots of team control + he is young and rising with the rest of their roster. 

I don't think Gore is untouchable. The reality of pitching is that it's volatile, and Gore's currently having a career year as of now. I think he's really good! But the Nationals will have to ask themselves how likely they think they are to turn into a playoff team next year, or the year after, and if that would be impossible with a Gore trade. 

Right now, they have Wood and Abrams who look like long term pieces. They hope Crews figures it out. But beyond that, they're a bit murky. 

How well the Nationals feel about Cubs prospects is likely the kicker. But I don't think he's entirely off the table. The Cubs have the prospect capital to essentially "can opener" a team into trading a player they weren't fully expecting. In fact, if I were guessing today and looking how they played the TDL last year, I kind of think the player they get for the rotation will *not* be among the obvious trade candidates. I'm not sure who that will or is, but I do think it'll be a bit unexpected as of today.

[Rcal10]

5 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

I probably should have just said rest or reprieve. He's played every game and I had just read an article that said the team thinks he's been playing injured. 

👍 fair enough. I agree all the guys need a day or two for rest. 

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, Jason Ross said:

I don't think Gore is untouchable. The reality of pitching is that it's volatile, and Gore's currently having a career year as of now. I think he's really good! But the Nationals will have to ask themselves how likely they think they are to turn into a playoff team next year, or the year after, and if that would be impossible with a Gore trade. 

Right now, they have Wood and Abrams who look like long term pieces. They hope Crews figures it out. But beyond that, they're a bit murky. 

How well the Nationals feel about Cubs prospects is likely the kicker. But I don't think he's entirely off the table.

I don’t know. I think it is wishful thinking to assume Gore can be had. They have some good young players. Why not keep him too? I mean, I guess anything is possible, but I have to think they would have to be overwhelmed with a deal to trade him. 

[Jason Ross]

33 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I don’t know. I think it is wishful thinking to assume Gore can be had. They have some good young players. Why not keep him too? I mean, I guess anything is possible, but I have to think they would have to be overwhelmed with a deal to trade him. 

The Nationals currently have 2 position players above .3 fWAR on the year. Crews has been really terrible so far, and he can still be good, but outside of him, most of their team is not very good. Robert Hassell hasn't been a very good prosect for the last few years, Tena has never been highly thought of. Nathaniel Lowe is 29 and has been awful this year (though he's been pretty good in the past, but only pretty good). Keibert Ruiz has been one of the worst MLB players over the last three years, accruing negative fWAR in each of the last three seasons for -1.2 fWAR and the 22nd worst in all of baseball over that span.

Pitching wise, they're basically Gore, Mitchell Parker and his 5+ ERA and two 33-year olds in Finnegan and Williams. 

It's also not like they've got a banging good MiLB system, as they came into the season ranked 13th by Pipeline, the bottom 5 in Fangraphs $value, and 14th by BA. What it means is that there isn't a *ton* of help coming. 

I just don't think they're particularly close right now and while I don't think the Nationals have "Trade Gore" circled on their plans, the organization is probably missing a lot of supplemental pieces to Wood/Abrams/Gore that an infusion of multiple good prospects could represent a better chance for squeezing value into the team over an arm that's relatively volatile. Wouldn't be cheap in any sense, but there probably isn't another team that can offer as many "near MLB minor leaguers" as the Cubs can.

The Cubs can likely pry players like Gore away from teams like the Nationals if they so want. Considering they made an aggressive move for Parades last year and then tried to pry Logan O'Hoppe away from the Angels (who you could kind of put in a similar situation to Gore and the Nationals), it's why I said I think the pitcher the Cubs end up acquiring this summer will not be among those that populate a Jim Bowden "this is who's available" The Athletic article. Gore fits that mold, but is just one of likely a few players. Who those other players are is kind of hard to speculate about, as I certainly didn't have either the Parades trade or the O'Hoppe attempt on my radar last year. 

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

The Nationals currently have 2 position players above .3 fWAR on the year. Crews has been really terrible so far, and he can still be good, but outside of him, most of their team is not very good. Robert Hassell hasn't been a very good prosect for the last few years, Tena has never been highly thought of. Nathaniel Lowe is 29 and has been awful this year (though he's been pretty good in the past, but only pretty good). Keibert Ruiz has been one of the worst MLB players over the last three years, accruing negative fWAR in each of the last three seasons for -1.2 fWAR and the 22nd worst in all of baseball over that span.

Pitching wise, they're basically Gore, Mitchell Parker and his 5+ ERA and two 33-year olds in Finnegan and Williams. 

It's also not like they've got a banging good MiLB system, as they came into the season ranked 13th by Pipeline, the bottom 5 in Fangraphs $value, and 14th by BA. What it means is that there isn't a *ton* of help coming. 

I just don't think they're particularly close right now and while I don't think the Nationals have "Trade Gore" circled on their plans, the organization is probably missing a lot of supplemental pieces to Wood/Abrams/Gore that an infusion of multiple good prospects could represent a better chance for squeezing value into the team over an arm that's relatively volatile. Wouldn't be cheap in any sense, but there probably isn't another team that can offer as many "near MLB minor leaguers" as the Cubs can.

The Cubs can likely pry players like Gore away from teams like the Nationals if they so want. Considering they made an aggressive move for Parades last year and then tried to pry Logan O'Hoppe away from the Angels (who you could kind of put in a similar situation to Gore and the Nationals), it's why I said I think the pitcher the Cubs end up acquiring this summer will not be among those that populate a Jim Bowden "this is who's available" The Athletic article. 

I know the Cubs have the resources. So they can get it done if the Nats are open to it. And I sure hope you are right and they are. Just for discussion sake, does Wiggins, Christian Hernandez and any other bat the Nats want from the system get it done and would you do it? Maybe a small 4th piece is added. 

[Derwood]

Carson Kelly batting 3rd tonight is certainly a choice

[squally1313]

4 minutes ago, Derwood said:

Carson Kelly batting 3rd tonight is certainly a choice

Career 116 wRC against lefties. I think he's been left too high in the order lately too, but with Tucker out, kinda splitting hairs (Swanson? Turner?) if you're trying to keep staggering the lefties and righties. 

 

As for the Gore trade talk, my simple way of thinking about it is that teams like them need to win lopsided trades. 2.5 years of a pitcher at his peak brings a haul, and you are one arm injury away from essentially paying him to rehab until he hits FA. But trading one good pitcher in a relatively non competitive window for a chance at multiple guys giving you that same value (for basically the same amount of money) in one-two years is the narrow path to contention they have to consider.

Baseball Trade Value is behind a paywall and only best as a starting point to begin with, but you can see trades proposed by other people and the Cubs/Gore one is Alcantara, Brown, Ballesteros, Hodge, and Rojas for Finnegan and Gore. So, significantly more than what was proposed above. 

[Bertz]

11 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Career 116 wRC against lefties. I think he's been left too high in the order lately too, but with Tucker out, kinda splitting hairs (Swanson? Turner?) if you're trying to keep staggering the lefties and righties. 

 

As for the Gore trade talk, my simple way of thinking about it is that teams like them need to win lopsided trades. 2.5 years of a pitcher at his peak brings a haul, and you are one arm injury away from essentially paying him to rehab until he hits FA. But trading one good pitcher in a relatively non competitive window for a chance at multiple guys giving you that same value (for basically the same amount of money) in one-two years is the narrow path to contention they have to consider.

Baseball Trade Value is behind a paywall and only best as a starting point to begin with, but you can see trades proposed by other people and the Cubs/Gore one is Alcantara, Brown, Ballesteros, Hodge, and Rojas for Finnegan and Gore. So, significantly more than what was proposed above. 

I'd assume Shaw/Horton/Brown are generally off limits in discussions this summer.  Gore's the one guy realistically available that would be an exception.  Probably to the point that he'd cost two of them.

[squally1313]

Just now, Bertz said:

I'd assume Shaw/Horton/Brown are generally off limits in discussions this summer.  Gore's the one guy realistically available that would be an exception.  Probably to the point that he'd cost two of them.

With Gore being a win now move, I'd much rather overpay with Iowa talent than make incremental rotation improvements or have to go back to Berti or whatever. Get Gore and say this is our team for 2025/2026. Like, announce a press conference with a Tucker extension and a Gore for Alcantara/Caissie/Ballesteros/Triantos/whatever deal. Should be easy enough, right?

[Bertz]

2 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

With Gore being a win now move, I'd much rather overpay with Iowa talent than make incremental rotation improvements or have to go back to Berti or whatever. Get Gore and say this is our team for 2025/2026. Like, announce a press conference with a Tucker extension and a Gore for Alcantara/Caissie/Ballesteros/Triantos/whatever deal. Should be easy enough, right?

Washington has no reason to settle for quantity over quality 

[Rcal10]

26 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I'd assume Shaw/Horton/Brown are generally off limits in discussions this summer.  Gore's the one guy realistically available that would be an exception.  Probably to the point that he'd cost two of them.

I don’t see Horton or Shaw in any deal. I said Wiggins originally, but Brown is ok too. One of those pitchers plus any AAA bat and then maybe another choice of any A+ or lower player. 

[PeanutPunch33]

I know that catcher isn’t really a need but the idea of getting Adley Rutschman is tantalizing.  There is way too much talent in that kid to be rotting away in Baltimore 

[Rcal10]

28 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

With Gore being a win now move, I'd much rather overpay with Iowa talent than make incremental rotation improvements or have to go back to Berti or whatever. Get Gore and say this is our team for 2025/2026. Like, announce a press conference with a Tucker extension and a Gore for Alcantara/Caissie/Ballesteros/Triantos/whatever deal. Should be easy enough, right?

The thing is, if you do know you will sign Tucker at all cost you can do whatever you want with the farm bats. Give up as many as your want. They are covered for the next several years at the major league level. That is why I agree with you on trading whatever is needed and signing Tucker. 

[BKHoo]

The Nationals have also spent basically nothing in free agency the last few years also. They have one of the lowest projected payrolls in baseball next year. Their plan is to wait until the young players get to a good point and then surround them with more talent - and the next 1-2 years should be the time to do that. I don’t know why they would give up Gore unless the deal is too good to pass up. He is only going to get better. 
 

If they did give him up, which I’d say is unlikely, they would be focused on getting quality pitching in return. That’s what they need. 

[Eeyore]

8 hours ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Until the Pirates call up Chandler just for us

A team can have a newborn pitching and the cubs would struggle. It seems like the team always struggles with pitchers they've never seen.

[Derwood]

This better be a 3 or 4 run inning

[JHBulls]

Yay! The Nats might need to activate the mercy rule in the 1st inning. 

[chibears55]

Good start, need a big hit or two now

[chibears55]

I never got why hitters cant ask for an appeal if plate umps calls it a swing

[BKHoo]

Ugh

[Derwood]

Well that sucked

[JHBulls]

4 minutes ago, JHBulls said:

Yay! The Nats might need to activate the mercy rule in the 1st inning. 

Dumbass.