Cubs (Assad) vs Royals (Ragans): 7/28/24, 1:10pm

[Cuzi]

Just now, WhyCantWeWin said:

Seiya would easily be the DH, Soto has graded a ton better than Seiya defensively this year. Which is funny because Soto was bashed relentlessly for poor defense and Suzuki was a gold glover in Japan

His defense is most likely getting padded quite a bit from how small Yankees stadium RF is.

[LBiittner]

1 hour ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

Seiya would easily be the DH, Soto has graded a ton better than Seiya defensively this year. Which is funny because Soto was bashed relentlessly for poor defense and Suzuki was a gold glover in Japan

Sounds good to me. Let's tell jed go ahead make it happen for xmas

[Backtobanks]

13 hours ago, Tim said:

Oh good god no.

Okay, then trade other prospects for Chisolm and send PCA down until he learns to hit. 

[Backtobanks]

11 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

The only reason I consider moving Nico is because the Cubs need bats bad and don't have a lot of positions to add one if Bellinger is coming back. If you can add a more offensive oriented 2B then I'm game.

They could certainly add a bat in CF.  Bellinger can play RF and Suzuki DH.  If we're serious about offense, they ought to play Tauchman.

[Tim]

48 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

Okay, then trade other prospects for Chisolm and send PCA down until he learns to hit. 

Fun fact: over a recent sample of games, PCA has a 1.667 OPS and 372 wRC+.

(fine, it's only two games)

[s2obed]

56 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

Okay, then trade other prospects for Chisolm and send PCA down until he learns to hit. 

I’d let PCA keep getting consistent ABs. If he becomes a league average bat (or close to it), that’s a great player to have.  
 

The Cubs have nothing to lose this year anyway.

[Tim]

30 minutes ago, s2obed said:

I’d let PCA keep getting consistent ABs. If he becomes a league average bat (or close to it), that’s a great player to have.  
 

The Cubs have nothing to lose this year anyway.

Since June 30th, he's running a 16.7 k% and has a .193 IsoP during that time. He's making adjustments.

It's still just a 70 wRC+, due to a .200 babip. Given his speed, I would expect him to run a much higher babip over time. he's getting there.

[Rex Buckingham]

Yeah, if PCA can run a 90 ops+ he's insanely valuable. Heck, he already has 1.2 WAR according to Baseball reference (1.4 defensive). That defensive WAR is tied for 10th in all of baseball, despite him playing 30 or more games less than the guys above him. 

Dalton Varsho was worth 3.9 WAR last year while running an 84 ops+. He had 2.8 in defensive WAR. That's what I think PA'S near term potential is.

[squally1313]

Can we make sure Shaw and Triantos check off the 'hit in AAA' box before we trade our cheap, signed for two more years, pretty much a 3 win floor second baseman? The last infielder who mashed in AA and went straight to the majors just got traded away for never putting it together, the other guy on our roster who never mastered AAA is running a 57 wRC currently. There's very little chance of Shaw or Triantos giving you more value in 2025 than Hoerner, and you aren't trading Hoerner for the type of talent that's going to be ready to produce on opening day next year. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

52 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Can we make sure Shaw and Triantos check off the 'hit in AAA' box before we trade our cheap, signed for two more years, pretty much a 3 win floor second baseman? The last infielder who mashed in AA and went straight to the majors just got traded away for never putting it together, the other guy on our roster who never mastered AAA is running a 57 wRC currently. There's very little chance of Shaw or Triantos giving you more value in 2025 than Hoerner, and you aren't trading Hoerner for the type of talent that's going to be ready to produce on opening day next year. 

Agreed, I'm kinda baffled by people who think the Paredes trade increases the likelihood of Nico getting traded. They got a certain 2025 solution at 3B and kept both their prospect powder dry and didn't add much AAV.  Especially since Shaw and Triantos haven't set foot in AAA like you said, it would be counterproductive to trade Nico at this point considering they have one fewer hole with almost the same amount of roster building resources they did yesterday.

[Backtobanks]

2 hours ago, Rex Buckingham said:

Yeah, if PCA can run a 90 ops+ he's insanely valuable. Heck, he already has 1.2 WAR according to Baseball reference (1.4 defensive). That defensive WAR is tied for 10th in all of baseball, despite him playing 30 or more games less than the guys above him. 

Dalton Varsho was worth 3.9 WAR last year while running an 84 ops+. He had 2.8 in defensive WAR. That's what I think PA'S near term potential is.

His OPS+ is now 56 after he has had a "hot streak".  I just don't think he's going to become a decent, ML hitter and the more that he continues below the Mendoza line the more his trade value disappears. 

[Tryptamine]

20 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

His OPS+ is now 56 after he has had a "hot streak".  I just don't think he's going to become a decent, ML hitter and the more that he continues below the Mendoza line the more his trade value disappears. 

Though the adjustments haven't born fruit just yet, he's clearly making adjustments. For a while there he was literally starting almost every single AB 0-2.

Up through June vs July

BB% 4.2 vs 5.3

K% 28.5 vs 17.5

wRC+ 47 vs 80

Babip .280 vs .214

ISO .085 vs .204

[Rex Buckingham]

I'm not saying PCA will be Rizzo, obviously they're different hitters, but b2b your logic is what led the Padres to get rid of Rizzo after his first crack at MLB that looked like this:

Year	Age	Tm	Lg	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	Pos	Awards
2011	21	SDP	NL	49	153	128	9	18	8	1	1	9	2	1	21	46	.141	.281	.242	.523	51	31	2	4	0	0	1	3/H

[We Got The Whole 9]

2 hours ago, Backtobanks said:

His OPS+ is now 56 after he has had a "hot streak".  I just don't think he's going to become a decent, ML hitter and the more that he continues below the Mendoza line the more his trade value disappears. 

Only in your head.

[chibears55]

Dodgers get Kopach from Sox

Pham goes back to Cardinals 

Edited July 29, 2024 by chibears55

[Backtobanks]

3 hours ago, Rex Buckingham said:

I'm not saying PCA will be Rizzo, obviously they're different hitters, but b2b your logic is what led the Padres to get rid of Rizzo after his first crack at MLB that looked like this:

Year	Age	Tm	Lg	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	Pos	Awards
2011	21	SDP	NL	49	153	128	9	18	8	1	1	9	2	1	21	46	.141	.281	.242	.523	51	31	2	4	0	0	1	3/H

The Padres had just traded for Yonder Alonzo to play 1B which means Rizzo was blocked.  Also, the Pardes wanted Andrew Cashner.  

[Backtobanks]

2 hours ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Only in your head.

Maybe, but if I'm right we're going to lose a lot of games waiting for him to turn into a ML hitter.

[Tim]

Just now, Backtobanks said:

Maybe, but if I'm right we're going to lose a lot of games waiting for him to turn into a ML hitter.

Did you miss the posts where people are showing that he's already making significant adjustments? Or the ones about him providing positive value already even with his (to date) anemic offense?

[thawv]

4 hours ago, Rex Buckingham said:

I'm not saying PCA will be Rizzo, obviously they're different hitters, but b2b your logic is what led the Padres to get rid of Rizzo after his first crack at MLB that looked like this:

Year	Age	Tm	Lg	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	Pos	Awards
2011	21	SDP	NL	49	153	128	9	18	8	1	1	9	2	1	21	46	.141	.281	.242	.523	51	31	2	4	0	0	1	3/H

They didn't trade Rizzo because of these numbers.  Jed was part of the group who drafted Rizzo in Boston.  Then Jed made the trade that brought him from Boston to SD for Morales.  In 2012 Yonder Alonso was SD's top prospect.  They could only keep one of Yonder or Rizzo.  Jed LOVED Rizzo from day one and made sure he followed him where every he went.  Cashner was a big young arm, but Jed was willing to give up up for a prospect, which Rizzo was. 

[Rex Buckingham]

15 minutes ago, thawv said:

They didn't trade Rizzo because of these numbers.  Jed was part of the group who drafted Rizzo in Boston.  Then Jed made the trade that brought him from Boston to SD for Morales.  In 2012 Yonder Alonso was SD's top prospect.  They could only keep one of Yonder or Rizzo.  Jed LOVED Rizzo from day one and made sure he followed him where every he went.  Cashner was a big young arm, but Jed was willing to give up up for a prospect, which Rizzo was. 

Ok, so it's more accurate to say the numbers were part of the reason. 

Point is, Rizzo is just one of many young players who struggled in their first MLB action amd rebounded to have very good careers and PCA doesn't even need to be as good a hitter as Rizzo to be a 4+ WAR player

[We Got The Whole 9]

11 minutes ago, Rex Buckingham said:

Ok, so it's more accurate to say the numbers were part of the reason. 

Point is, Rizzo is just one of many young players who struggled in their first MLB action amd rebounded to have very good careers and PCA doesn't even need to be as good a hitter as Rizzo to be a 4+ WAR player

Only a handful of highly regarded prospect rookies have hit well this year. A couple of them have hit as poorly as PCA has. I think people just need to keep a proper perspective. The Cubs should be able to help him develop at least into a 90 hitter. I have my reservations about their PD system but I believe that is a very realistic outcome. 

[champaignchris]

21 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Only a handful of highly regarded prospect rookies have hit well this year. A couple of them have hit as poorly as PCA has. I think people just need to keep a proper perspective. The Cubs should be able to help him develop at least into a 90 hitter. I have my reservations about their PD system but I believe that is a very realistic outcome. 

If he can just hit like he has over the last month - .650ish OPS - he’ll be a very valuable player for several years. 

[thawv]

57 minutes ago, Rex Buckingham said:

Ok, so it's more accurate to say the numbers were part of the reason. 

Point is, Rizzo is just one of many young players who struggled in their first MLB action amd rebounded to have very good careers and PCA doesn't even need to be as good a hitter as Rizzo to be a 4+ WAR player

All true

[Backtobanks]

1 hour ago, Tim said:

Did you miss the posts where people are showing that he's already making significant adjustments? Or the ones about him providing positive value already even with his (to date) anemic offense?

I didn't miss anything.  He's making adjustments, but they haven't changed much in his offensive numbers yet.  His positive value comes entirely from his defense, which was never questioned by anyone.  I get that he has tremendous potential, but he has to start hitting eventually to realize that potential.  I'll be more than happy if he can become a .250 hitter with his defense and speed.  

[Rcal10]

2 hours ago, Backtobanks said:

Maybe, but if I'm right we're going to lose a lot of games waiting for him to turn into a ML hitter.

2 similar guys last year. Turang and Doyle. Both actually older than PCA. Both doing much better this year. You don’t just ship him out because he isn’t hitting as a 22 yr old with limited professional AB. He missed a year with an injury and has hit wherever he has been. Deciding he can’t hit after a small time in the majors is just not a good idea.